Raven 3 Default Settings don't match the manual

[Manticore]

Greetings to all:

I have a brand new Raven 3 and a couple of questions-

Question 1:
The FIP button "Reset Raven to Factory Defaults" results in settings different from those shown on the latest Raven 3 manual. My Raven defaults to: "Apogee Pyro Channel = At Apogee (Barometric)"
This is direct conflict with the manual which shows "At Apogee (Accelerometer)". Everywhere in the manual it is recommended (and I agree) to use accelerometer-based apogee deployment; other settings are also different. What's going on?

Question 2:
I'm planning on using the Raven 3 for the first time with a G-Wiz LCX with dual deployment as follows:
One (1) charge for the Raven using the apogee channel and the 3rd (apogee backup), each channel with two (2) igniters in parallel in the same charge. The second apogee charge is handled by the LCX with two (2) igniters in parallel as well.
The main parachute would have the same identical set-up.
I know, it looks like overkill but I really don't mind.
Could someone recommend some settings? Planned altitude 3,500 feet
Thanks in advance,
Manticore

 

[WoShuGui]

Hmm... I have never "Reset Raven to Factory Defaults" but the out of box Apogee Pyro Channel setting that I continue to use is At Apogee (Accelerometer) with 3rd Pyro Channel set to At Apogee (Barometric) Plus Delay (Backup Apogee):
View attachment 126751
Ran this dual deploy a couple weeks back on a 3,700' AGL with no problems. Have not installed the 2013-04-04 update yet (running Mar 1 2012 19:25:07), maybe that has something to do with it.

Can't help you with the G-Wiz LCX, but am curious to hear what others say since I am also thinking about how to wire a 2nd altimeter with the Raven 3.

Good Luck.

EDIT: My error... This is just the emulation screen with no Raven 3 connected that still shows At Apogee (Accelerometer) for Apo. Connecting my Raven 3 shows Apo it is set to At Apogee (Barometric). Now I am starting to worry about my single 35x19 mm camera/baro port giving false triggers.

 

[CarVac]

Adrian changed the defaults fairly recently so that the default apogee is baro with accelerometer lockout.

Barometric is less susceptible to off-vertical flights.

Also, are you really using 6 igniters and 3 charges for each? That's ridiculous, and in fact the multiple charges will be more damaging than helpful. With this setup, your parachutes and shock cords will be bombarded by two black powder charges while sitting open above your rocket. And you'll be using 12 igniters a flight!

To think I once (last week, actually) thought 4 igniters per flight was a lot... (2 igniters in 1 main charge, and 2 more igniters each in their own cable cutter)

 

[Salvage-1]

My thoughts, if you are looking at redundancy, then the fact that you have the 2nd altimeter should mean that you dont actually have to use the redundancy feature of the Raven (channels 3/4).
I believe that the LCX does apogee and 400ft as default, therefore, I would leave those settings alone and mix then with the Raven settings of Apogee (barometric) +1 second, and 600ft for main.
The LCX will handle the primary apogee with the Raven firing off 1 second later, the Raven will then fire the first Main event at 600 with the LCX backing it up at 400.
I would also use only one igniter per charge. If you have a battery that is feeling a little under the weather, then, depending upon the igntors that you are using, 2 may provide too much resistance and neither would fire.
If you really really want to go with triple redundancy, then I would set up as follows
Raven CH1 - Apogee Barometric +1
Raven CH2 - Main @600
Raven CH3 - Apogee Barometric +2
Raven CH4 - Main @500
LCX - Apogee
LCX - Main @400

Although, if there is a Raven problem with battery, NONE of those charges would go off and you would have the LCX as backup, but that is what you are wanting it there for anyhow.

 

[Manticore]

Thank you for your reply; nothing like the voice of experience.
Well actually two charges per chute; one of the charges has connections for two channels. The other charge runs on the backup altimeter.
The setup using individual charges for each channel/altimeter comes highly recommended in previous posts; the same goes for the dual igniters. I make mine from xmas lights and use a Kevlar/Nomex for the chute hardware. I have a flame shield attached to the shock-cord so that it stays close to the body tube after deployment, this shields the chute that is by now 20 feet away. My charges use Crimson Powder, great stuff; burns clean.
Thanks for clarifying the default settings issue.

 

[Adrian A]

Greetings to all:

I have a brand new Raven 3 and a couple of questions-

Question 1:
The FIP button "Reset Raven to Factory Defaults" results in settings different from those shown on the latest Raven 3 manual. My Raven defaults to: "Apogee Pyro Channel = At Apogee (Barometric)"
This is direct conflict with the manual which shows "At Apogee (Accelerometer)". Everywhere in the manual it is recommended (and I agree) to use accelerometer-based apogee deployment; other settings are also different. What's going on?

In the most recent version of the manual (June 12 2012, available on-line here: ), it correctly states that the default apogee detection is barometric. Could you tell me where you got the old version, or if there's something I missed something in that manual update that still says the default apogee detection is accel-based?

 

[Adrian A]

EDIT: My error... This is just the emulation screen with no Raven 3 connected that still shows At Apogee (Accelerometer) for Apo. Connecting my Raven 3 shows Apo it is set to At Apogee (Barometric). Now I am starting to worry about my single 35x19 mm camera/baro port giving false triggers.

The accel-derived velocity check that's part of the default baro-based apogee detection will prevent any high-speed deployments on the way up. When the rocket is moving more slowly, the specifics of the vent holes or camera port disturbances can cause some small errors but nothing that would reverse the direction of the pressure plot.

 

[Manticore]

In the most recent version of the manual (June 12 2012, available on-line here: ), it correctly states that the default apogee detection is barometric. Could you tell me where you got the old version, or if there's something I missed something in that manual update that still says the default apogee detection is accel-based?

Hi Adrian:

The manual I have came from the link above (June 1, 2012)......you mention June 12.....did you mean June 1 ?
Based on Firmware Version 3.0 April 29, 2012; this is what I've found in the manual (Using the Table of Contents as Page 1):

Page 5, Default conditions (Table): Backup Main Deployment Delay should read 2 sec instead of 1.5 sec
Page 7, Configuration dialog box screen-shot (Firmware Version 2.1, Aug 7, 2010). Assuming that you intended to show the default values here, then the following entries are in conflict with Version 3 (unless indicated otherwise):
-Apogee Pyro Channel (Accelerometer) conditioned to Velocity < 0 mph.
-Main Pyro Channel - this agrees with Version 3
-3rd is shown conditioned to pressure increasing, Vel < Vel1.
-4th is conditioned to pressure increasing, AGL1 and Vel1.
Page 8, Bottom of the page:
Velocity< Vel1, in parenthesis should read (used for default main deployment channel, APO CHANNEL AND MAIN BACKUP)

I hope this helps. Thank you for answering promptly; the Raven is THE flight computer.

Paul

 

[Manticore]

Thank you all for your replies so far; I would thank you individually but I don't want this thread to get huge.
I hope I can be of service to you in the future.
Regards,
Paul

 

[WoShuGui]

The accel-derived velocity check that's part of the default baro-based apogee detection will prevent any high-speed deployments on the way up. When the rocket is moving more slowly, the specifics of the vent holes or camera port disturbances can cause some small errors but nothing that would reverse the direction of the pressure plot.

Thank you Adrian,
Appreciate the response very much. Being new to HP, I have only scratched the surface of what the Raven 3 can do, but it is clearly a superbly engineered system. I went back and checked FIP plots for any "near misses" during boost. Looks like Pressure Increase criterion was met just at lift-off (moving slow) on both flights. On one flight, Pressure Increase criterion toggled true twice (see below), but all were before the burnout criterion was met.
View attachment 126838

 

[Manticore]

Adrian:

Any more comments?

Paul

 

[Adrian A]

Thanks for the review.

Hi Adrian:

The manual I have came from the link above (June 1, 2012)......you mention June 12.....did you mean June 1 ?

Yes.

Based on Firmware Version 3.0 April 29, 2012; this is what I've found in the manual (Using the Table of Contents as Page 1):

Page 5, Default conditions (Table): Backup Main Deployment Delay should read 2 sec instead of 1.5 sec

Actually, the default settings now has the backup main set for AGL3 < 480 feet and no delay. Also I'm changing the table to correctly show that the default apogee deployment channel checks for decreasing altitude.

Page 7, Configuration dialog box screen-shot (Firmware Version 2.1, Aug 7, 2010). Assuming that you intended to show the default values here, then the following entries are in conflict with Version 3 (unless indicated otherwise):...

I hope this helps. Thank you for answering promptly; the Raven is THE flight computer.

Paul

Thanks. I'm updating the screen shot to be up-to-date with the latest FIP.

 

[Adrian A]

Thank you Adrian,
Appreciate the response very much. Being new to HP, I have only scratched the surface of what the Raven 3 can do, but it is clearly a superbly engineered system. I went back and checked FIP plots for any "near misses" during boost. Looks like Pressure Increase criterion was met just at lift-off (moving slow) on both flights. On one flight, Pressure Increase criterion toggled true twice (see below), but all were before the burnout criterion was met.
View attachment 126838

That's correct, and I'm glad to see you found how to select the different flight events. I think while I'm updating the manual I'll put in some instructions that I thought I already had in there, on how to zoom and copy data into another analysis program.