Propulsion-compare BP to reload motors

[MadRocketMan]

Please help me understand.....
I do not have any...nope any rocketry clubs anywhere close to me and am still new to rocketry.(been doing it for 7 mo. now).
1. How do you get certified for level 1,2,or 3 flights?

2. Where can I look to compare BP motors with reloadable motors. And how do reloadable motors work. Do you buy a putty fuel?

Thanks to anyone who can help educate me about these things.

 

[Bazookadale]

Originally posted by MadRocketMan
Please help me understand.....
I do not have any...nope any rocketry clubs anywhere close to me and am still new to rocketry.(been doing it for 7 mo. now).
1. How do you get certified for level 1,2,or 3 flights?

www.nar.org
www.tripoli.org

2. Where can I look to compare BP motors with reloadable motors. And how do reloadable motors work. Do you buy a putty fuel?

Thanks to anyone who can help educate me about these things.

you do not buy putty fuel you buy reload kits and casings from various supplers, the 2 links above can help, also try
https://www.info-central.org/infocentral.shtm

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by MadRocketMan
Please help me understand.....
I do not have any...nope any rocketry clubs anywhere close to me and am still new to rocketry.(been doing it for 7 mo. now).
1. How do you get certified for level 1,2,or 3 flights?

2. Where can I look to compare BP motors with reloadable motors. And how do reloadable motors work. Do you buy a putty fuel?

Thanks to anyone who can help educate me about these things.

1. https://www.nar.org/hprrocs.html
Certification is done by already certified fliers. You're going to have to find a club, or else HPR certified fliers close enough to you to certify you. Note that for HPR, you'll be using motors that fall under the category that requires a federal explosives permit for storage. You'll either have to buy your motor for certification from a motor evndor at a launch, or work with someone who has the license and have them get and store it for you.

2. Reloadable motors use ammonium perchlorate composite propellant (APCP), just like the shuttle's external boosters. You buy reloadable casings, and then buy reloads to fit them. The largest manufacturer is Aerotech. Their web site has instructions for reloads here: https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/customersite/resource_library/resource_library.html

You'd do best to work your way up to HPR by building and flying E, F and G motors in midpower rockets. Note that you don't necessarily have to use reloadables for HPR certification. There are a few single use HPR motors available. I have several reloadable casings. But for "mission critical" flights, and for ease of use, I use single use motors. Availability of these is going to depend on your motor vendor and/or licensed motor user. You'll get to know these people by building and flying with them. You won't get certified without them.

 

[Chicagonative17]

what city do you live in?

 

[MadRocketMan]

I live in El Paso, Tx.
And to Dynasor thanks for the information.
Is it critical to join the NAR?
I already fly D & E rockets and am currently building a 4 cluster E rocket based off of the Estes Executioner. I added two more body tubes and will be adding some long body fins. According to RockSim it will fly well. Thanks.

 

[shreadvector]

4 Estes E9 motors will have more propellant than the legal limit for a Model Rocket and will require an FAA Waiver to launch.

https://home.flash.net/~samily/stuff/HPR_metric8.pdf

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Estes/E9.pdf

Originally posted by MadRocketMan
I live in El Paso, Tx.
And to Dynasor thanks for the information.
Is it critical to join the NAR?
I already fly D & E rockets and am currently building a 4 cluster E rocket based off of the Estes Executioner. I added two more body tubes and will be adding some long body fins. According to RockSim it will fly well. Thanks.

 

[sylvie369]

If you join a club in your area, you will be able to learn these things from other people as you watch them fly. You'll also be able to fly legally at properly waivered/FAA notified launches.

If you're moving from small model rockets to more complex/larger ones, you'll definitely want to find the other people in your area who are flying. Whether or not you also join the NAR is an issue to take up with them, but join that local club.

Edit: Oops - doh! Guess I should have read the original post. My apologies. Still, it's worth the effort to get to a club launch.

 

[jsdemar]

Originally posted by MadRocketMan
I live in El Paso, Tx.
And to Dynasor thanks for the information.
Is it critical to join the NAR?
I already fly D & E rockets and am currently building a 4 cluster E rocket based off of the Estes Executioner. I added two more body tubes and will be adding some long body fins. According to RockSim it will fly well. Thanks.

I belong to a rocket club in Las Cruces, not far from El Paso. https://www.shootthesky.org

We have two launches per month, modroc on the 1st Sat (just missed it!) and HPR on the 4th Sat.

-John

 

[doug_man_sams]

Originally posted by MadRocketMan
2. Where can I look to compare BP motors with reloadable motors.

BP motors go up to E impulse. Higher impulses are possible, but tend to not be cost effective, and are currently not available.

APCP motors - both single-use and reloadable - have about twice the whoosh per pound of propellant as do BP motors. The better term for this is specific impulse, Isp. It's measured in units of seconds (impulse per unit weight or pound-seconds per pound = seconds). APCP motors have a typical Isp of around 200 secs while BP motors are around 80 seconds, about a 2.5:1 ratio (but 2:1 is a good first order approximation). Those numbers tranlate to about 0.8Ns per gram for BP and about 2Ns per gram for APCP.

Those are the basic comparisons.

Doug

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by MadRocketMan
I live in El Paso, Tx.
And to Dynasor thanks for the information.
Is it critical to join the NAR?
I already fly D & E rockets and am currently building a 4 cluster E rocket based off of the Estes Executioner. I added two more body tubes and will be adding some long body fins. According to RockSim it will fly well. Thanks.

My pleasure.
Here's more pleasure:
Fellowship of Las Cruces Area Rocketry Enthusiasts (FLARE) #577
Denzil Burnam III
906 Lenox Avenue
Las Cruces NM 88005
Phone : (505) 526-9298
Meetings: First Saturday each month after launch
Launches: First Saturday each month, 9 AM, NMSU Pan American Center east parking lot

They're less than 50 miles, sneezing distance to anyone from El Paso, or most anywhere in Texas. Heck, that's how far I have to go just for meetings and I'm in DFW.

You'll need to join NAR or Triploi. You have to be a member in order to be an HPR certified member. You can join the day you certify if you like, but why wait? And you'll need to maintain your membership once you certify, or lose certification when your membership lapses.

 

[MarkM]

Originally posted by MadRocketMan
IIs it critical to join the NAR?

If you want to get a level 1 and above certification, membership in either NAR or TRA is required. Check your local clubs to determine which organization they are affiliated with as you need certified individuals to sign off on your paperwork.

 

[BobCox]

Originally posted by MadRocketMan
I already fly D & E rockets and am currently building a 4 cluster E rocket based off of the Estes Executioner.

As ShreadVector already noted, a 4xE9 cluster is legally classified as a High Power Rocket by the FAA and NFPA 1127 because it has more than 125 grams of propellant. The FAA requires you to have an FAA waiver to legally fly a High Power Rocket anywhere in the US.

In addition, if you live in a state or jurisdiction that enforces NFPA, you also must be a Certified User to legally launch a High Power Rocket. You can become certified by NAR or Tripoli, but both organizations require you to be a member of the national organization.