Propellant Lighting

[Hospital_Rocket]

I am in the final phases of threatening to consider planning an attempt at getting around to my first HPR staging attempt.

(Get the feeling I procrastinate a lot?)

So that said I want to use in the sustainer, the easiest propellant to light.

I ask as I know I will have to use an e-match to fire the sustainer and as such will have to move quickly. Also, I'm planning on a stock Quantum Leap 3000 and that means the staging timer is in the booster.

Thanx

 

[loopy]

Doh - voted before I read all the options...sorry about that. I voted BT, as that's the easiest one to light that I've actually flown. I've seen Cesaroni flights that all seemed to light very easily as well, but haven't flown any ProXX motors at this time.

edit
I know what you mean on this - I'm currently building a Cosmodrome Aerobee Hi, so Im pondering the same sorts of issues. Staging timer is in the booster, and it's all 29mm. I'm thinking G79 in the booster, and F52 in the sustainer. I was just thinking - are there any blue thunder G reloads??? I don't think there are...Odd.

 

[ben]

you can light just about anything if you use good pyrogen and an Ematch

Ben

 

[DumasBro2]

AMW Super Tiger. I have used a J450 in the Sandhawk (Terrier/Sandhawk), instant on and gone. But the Sandhawk is much smarter after it's visit to college.

 

[terryg]

Cesaroni, because you are lighting the black power at the top of the grain, which then lights the propellent.


https://www.polecataerospace.com/1_16_scale_soviet_n1.htm

 

[heada]

Originally posted by Loopy
Doh - voted before I read all the options...sorry about that. I voted BT, as that's the easiest one to light that I've actually flown. I've seen Cesaroni flights that all seemed to light very easily as well, but haven't flown any ProXX motors at this time.

edit
I know what you mean on this - I'm currently building a Cosmodrome Aerobee Hi, so Im pondering the same sorts of issues. Staging timer is in the booster, and it's all 29mm. I'm thinking G79 in the booster, and F52 in the sustainer. I was just thinking - are there any blue thunder G reloads??? I don't think there are...Odd.

BT G loads (in 29mm):

G80T (SU)
G104T (29/120)

-Aaron

 

[heada]

Unless you create very custom ignition systems(thermite, etc), CTI motors are the absolute easiest to light. They use an e-match (supplied) to fire a pyrodex slug. They ignite and come up to pressure nearly instantly.

I have a leaning towards AT simply because I have almost all their cases, but when you need something to ignite and ignite right now (staging, etc) then CTI is the way to go.

Unless you're going to be staging or air-starting, then just having a good igniter and launch system is all you need to worry about. Most motors will get going on the pad (some a few seconds before or after others)

-Aaron

 

[jetra2]

I voted the two obvious - Blue Thunder and CTI Classic/Smokey.

I think you should fly your Quantum Leap on a I357T to a big I560SS (I think that's the designation!) The trail of thick black smoke at 500-1000 feet would be very very cool looking!

Jason

 

[Donaldsrockets]

I voted Warp-9.

The G339N I flew lit instantly, probably even before the ignitor stopped burning.

I wonder if anyone has flown a W9 cluster yet!!!

 

[Rick Lindsey]

Originally posted by Donaldsrockets
I voted Warp-9.

The G339N I flew lit instantly, probably even before the ignitor stopped burning.

I wonder if anyone has flown a W9 cluster yet!!!

Do you think a Warp-9 motor could be sucessfully used in mixed BP/AP clusters?

-Rick

 

[Donaldsrockets]

Originally posted by Rick Lindsey
Do you think a Warp-9 motor could be sucessfully used in mixed BP/AP clusters?

-Rick

Probably but you would need some sort of ejection such as electronics or outboard motors with ejection charges as all Warp-9 motors are plugged.

The reason is because the burn is literally lightning fast and the pressure drop inside the casing is so fast that it will tend to snuff out the delay element.

 

[cjl]

Warp 9 is instant on, the second the button is pressed. I used to think blue thunder was fast and easy to light, until I saw warp 9. I would say that it is easier even than CTI to light. It isn't ideal for a top stage though, simply because of the fast burn. I would say that the easiest are, though, in the following order:

1) Warp 9
2) Anything CTI
3) Blue Thunder
4) Loki White
5) Black Max (BJ is MUCH harder to light than BM, so don't try blackjack)

 

[wwattles]

Originally posted by Rick Lindsey
Do you think a Warp-9 motor could be sucessfully used in mixed BP/AP clusters?

-Rick

I've not seen it attempted, and I'm inclined to doubt that it can be done successfully. The reason I say that is this: The first one to ignite will get the rocket moving so suddenly that it will almost certainly pull the entire rocket away from the ignitor clips attached to the other motors before they have a chance to finish providing an ignition charge.

That being said, it may be possible to do if the cluster was lit using an internal power source with each of the ignitors wired in parallel and held firmly in place on the bottom of the rocket. That way, even when the airframe starts moving, the other motors will still have power going to the ignitor.

WW

 

[Chicagonative17]

I am the only voter for blackjack and that is because of all HPR motors I have launched, I have had ZERO problems with it leaving the ground right when you push the button.

I know blue thunder goes quick too but twice I have had no ignition and then walked up to it and about 15 ft. away it decided to go off.

Ian

 

[edwardw]

A couple years ago there was a group of us that launched a Delta II with 9 drop off boosters and a centrail 75mm motor. We chose the 38mm outboards to be CTI motors. All of them lit on command and when staged. I think they are by far the easiest motors to light.

Edward

 

[constevens]

AMW Super Tiger lights very easy, So does Blue Thunder and CTI motors. Loki white is another easy to light.

 

[bguff]

I think Modern High Power Rocketry 2 suggests using Blue Thunder slivers glued/tied to an igniter. Stuff that sliver/igniter into any motor whose core will accomodate the girth of the sliver/igniter, and the motor will light. Why limit yourself to just a few motor options?

Bob

 

[cjl]

Originally posted by chicagonative17
I am the only voter for blackjack and that is because of all HPR motors I have launched, I have had ZERO problems with it leaving the ground right when you push the button.

I know blue thunder goes quick too but twice I have had no ignition and then walked up to it and about 15 ft. away it decided to go off.

Ian

Are you sure you don't mean black max? Blackjack tends to be quite slow off the pad, smoking for a while, smoldering before liftoff. I've even seen some chuffs. Black max on the other hand tends to be instant on.

 

[Chicagonative17]

Maybe it is black max, although it was aerotech.

Ian

 

[uncle_vanya]

I answered blue thunder - because I was thinking about the propellant and not the reload and you cannot see the context until after the poll is finished. The CTI stuff is very easy to light (ematch for crying out loud) but it is in fact only easy because you are lighting a chunk of pryrodex (or is it BP?) which in turn lights the propellant.

So the answer if revised would be:


From a staging perspective - CTI hands down. Look at Andy's giant rockets with 30+ CTI reloads staging to more CTI's etc. From a propellant standing on it's own - Blue Thunder is my vote but I have no experience with WARP 9.

 

[smurf]

I flew my QL with pretty much exclusively CTI motors in the sustainer....never had a single failure to ignite. If you use the PML stager you are pretty much limited to ematches to ignite the upper stage. If you use a timer like the perfect flight you might be able to ignite a standard ignitor but you still have to watch out for the additional time it takes some motors to come up to pressure (believe me, NOTHING is more fun than watching your sustainer come up to pressure as it arcs over to about a 45 degree angle...or worse). Personally, I'm just starting to play with copper thermite ignitors to solve the pressurization problem but you can always stick a chunk of estes motor in the top grain or even a pyrodex slug and achieve the same result.

 

[Thrasher]

AMW Green Gorilla is NOT easy to light. It's the only one I've had a problem with.

 

[constevens]

Originally posted by Thrasher
AMW Green Gorilla is NOT easy to light. It's the only one I've had a problem with.

Never had any problems. Its all in how the propellant is stored and kept as well as the igniter you use with the green.

 

[Donaldsrockets]

Newer Redline loads will usually light right up.

But as they get older, they can become difficult. I had an H165R that chuffed twice, went idle for a few seconds, then lit.

I'd say that using a CTI motor in your sustainer is your best bet.

 

[uncle_vanya]

Originally posted by constevens
Never had any problems. Its all in how the propellant is stored and kept as well as the igniter you use with the green.

Let me preface this by saying - I HAVE NO PERSONAL Experience with Green Gorilla. However I have several fliers in my club who use it and I have seen a number of "hard to light" green gorrila's in our launches.

The most infamous of which was at Orangeburg at the Freedom launch where a K motor took three tries. The third time another fella had to supply the igniter... and most people expressed a belief that his igniter probably had more propellent on it than a lot of MPR motors...

I cannot comment on the storage of the propellant - but man it was hard headed when it came to lighting that day.

 

[cjl]

I have to say - green gorilla is the only propellant I have ever seen that did not ignite with a thermite blend made by Pat G. The ignitor lifted the rocket off the pad about 6 inches, and then it fell back down without lighting.

 

[DumasBro2]

If your ignitor is lifting your rocket off the pad, I don't want it in any of my cases.
Speaking of what I have personally used (air starting) with a dipped ematch. AT WL, AMW ST and WT have all worked fine. The only failure was a fossilized AT BJ. I have personally seen AT BT and CTI motors work reliably as well.

 

[ben]

these one guys at MDRA use thermite on EVERYTHING! You could see a small pile of it on the blast deflector from a J750. I don't think any more would of fit

Ben

 

[cjl]

Ben: thermalite does not equal thermite....

Which did you mean?

 

[metalwizard]

CTI's work very easy for staging (done it myself) due to their pyrogen pellet at the top of the motor..

I dont know if its legal, (i think it is because its technicly just an igniter) but I have also used pyrodex pellets in AT motors with an e-match, this works really well to get things lit fast!! just keep the pellet to a minimu so you dont overpressueize your motor..