So students that can only go to college through grants or scholarships instead of paying their own way have no business going to college?
Sad.
Last edited:
Please consider helping Grizzly Aerospace Attend the Spaceport America Cup
- Thread starter jordan.jacob
- Start date
Help Support The Rocketry Forum:
- Status
Sad.
You seem to have left out the two "grifter" faculty members . . .
grift·er
/ˈɡriftər/
noun
informal•North American
plural noun: grifters
- a person who engages in petty or small-scale swindling.
"I saw him as a grifter who preys upon people"
Very few of the clubs "pay their own way." The donation is a small investment in the future that helps the industry and our hobby.
I do not know where Jordan went. I know they had several catastrophic flights in Dalzell, and it is possible that their rocket was not ready. It is also possible that life got in the way.
One unfortunate thing about Spaceport is that it occurs in June. Many of the seniors get job offers and have to work. I mentored the Citadel two years ago. Almost half could not make it due to employment.
I highly doubt it.
So do I.
They were on the Master Teams list so they obviously entered and intended to fly.
Not as serious as Conspiracy, Fraud, & Grand Theft . . . just saying.
Do you think that happened here?
DocSeuss
Well-Known Member
Having run a GFM before (several years ago; it is the only reason I am still alive; I needed heart surgery), it sure seems like this team attempted to raise funds in good faith. None of the markers of a scam.
Given that they weren't able to reach their goal and were on the master list, it's likely they tried to attend and couldn't.
It definitely doesn't seem like conspiracy, fraud, and grand theft. Ideally, the team would refund people who donated, if the team's still around. However, it appears they'd budgeted some of those funds.
From the GFM:
Given that they disabled the ability to get donations, it's unlikely it's a scam. Scammers usually leave the donations open as long as they can to maximize profit. This looks like them realizing they wouldn't be able to make it and doing the best they could by shutting it down early.
It can just plain be hard to get a hold of people! Ostensibly, the University of Kansas has a rocketry program here, but I haven't been able to get a hold of anybody who works on it so far (I'm wanting to see if I can fly with them, or if they at least have recommendations on where to fly around here), and that's someone in my town, at my alma mater, who I have a literal office number for.
Agreed!
They sure diasppeared quickly . . .
Actually grift was your word, not mine.
But whatevah.
Yes, but you used the term "serious", to which I then replied to with "more serious" possibilities.
Oh, so you consider Conspiracy, Fraud and Grand Theft as possibilities here then?
I consider Conspiracy, Fraud, & Grand Theft to be more serious than "grifting".
Look up the legal definition of each and see if they apply, or not, and let me know what you find out.
No need, I already know the legal definition of each. But instead of deflecting my question with one of your own, why not just answer the question? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Once more,
DocSeuss
Well-Known Member
When their fundraiser failed. You'll note it's about a month after they started the GFM, and those usually run for a month. But that alone doesn't say grift or scam, much less all the other possibilities you've raised in this thread.
Would you want to stick around a forum when you're getting accused of that?
I mean, from their perspective, they show up, the first response they get is skepticism that their trip will cost that much because of a google maps route link. One of the next posts is yet more skepticism, doing napkin math on something that they've certainly done themselves (they went to the effort of making a video for this! I've made videos before! it's hard work! I've been in these kinds of clubs; they have to be super good at budgeting because school administrators love penny pinching and passing the costs onto their students). Here on page 2, we've got an accusation that they're grifters. We're seeing mentions of grand theft! conspiracy!
If you joined this forum 'cause you were trying to help some students out and you felt you were being given the third degree from the outset, would you want to stick around? Would you feel welcome?
As do I . . . However, you will not "bait" me into any statement that could be construed to actively accuse any of the parties involved.
So, hypothetically, if you and a "rocket buddy" decided to sell "rare model rocket kit assortments" for $1200.00, but only supplied buyers with images of them and not the actual products, the following could, possibly, apply to you in this hypothetical situation.
(1) Conspiracy - Since you and you "rocket buddy" planned and carried this out together.
(2) Fraud - Clear misrepesentation of products and receiving financial gain from it.
(3) Grand Theft - Since the amount per transaction exceeds $ 500.00 ( amount varies from state to state ).
Back to reality . . .
No need for "baiting", it seems that you already made such statements:
They had a "target amount" of $10,000, but failed to raise that much.
They did not return the donated funds and "changed their terms" a couple of times.
The Googlemaps post was to generate hard data for their route and likely expenses along the way, much better than "guesstimating". ( They thanked me for that, BTW ).
You were seeing me respond to Kuririn's words, not making any accusations.
The only time any possible improprieties were discussed, in any fashion, was long after they stopped posting.
Try actually reading the thread . . .
I never accused anyone of anything, directly ( I did use an "insulting name", though ). My responses were directed at your attempts to get me to do so., not at those individuals.
This is a "chess game" you cannot win.
First of all, I wasn't aware we were playing a chess game. I asked a few questions, you deflected.
In your own words:
The OPs' first post states that the funds raised were to be used for "Entrance fees, construction materials, and travel expenses". Only about $2K out of a goal of $10K was raised. Further donations were terminated. Does that sound like a grift to you? According to Chuck there was a series of catastrophic failures at Dalzell. They were on the Master Teams list, so they seem to have paid the entrance fee. If multiple failures occurred that could have easily used up the entire $2K.
Now, it would have been NICE if the OP had updated this thread with the results and an accounting of the funds. But not doing so in and of itself does not indicate a grift, scam, fraud, conspiracy or grand theft.
Don't be so quick to judge.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2021
- Messages
- 38
- Reaction score
- 11
This is a very expensive competition. Please don't throw shade on them for trying.
The questions, asked in the manner you did, were an attempt to get me to "connect the dots" by, hypothetically, saying something like, "Yes, it's Conspiracy because everyone planned together and accepted the money for the phony Girl Scout cookies . . . It's Fraud because they claimed to be Girl Scouts when they were actually "Campfire Girls" . . . It's Grand Theft because they got more than $500 for the Girl Scout cookies that never materialized."
I trust you as far as I could throw you . . . uphill.
At least, we understand each other !
Last edited:
Paranoia is only that, if the beliefs are not justified.
Aloha !
Ah, but the paranoids would be convinced that their beliefs are justified, even if they are not.
Ya reckon?
That's why it's wise to consult "outside sources", for confirmation.Ah, but the paranoids would be convinced that their beliefs are justified, even if they are not.
Ya reckon?
Having Paranoid tendencies is preferable to being in denial, because those in denial never realize their situation, until it's too late !
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
