Phenolic tubes - ?how to make?

[gamewood]

The impetus for this question is the recent post on how to make paper tubes.

Which is a good read but where can we get phenolic "glue" to dope the paper?

Additionally if y'all know of heat resistant adhesives, I'd like to know about it too.

I have searched on phenolic and the only process I found involved using the vapor of the reaction to adhere two surfaces.

 

[prfesser]

Phenolic glue isn't easy...

Cascophen is one type of phenolic adhesive available for amateurs. I've never tried it for tubes but I doubt that it's easy to use. It shrinks a lot and isn't extremely sticky, so keeping the paper of the tube in place isn't going to be too simple.

 

[sharkbait]

The impetus for this question is the recent post on how to make paper tubes.

Which is a good read but where can we get phenolic "glue" to dope the paper?

Additionally if y'all know of heat resistant adhesives, I'd like to know about it too.

I have searched on phenolic and the only process I found involved using the vapor of the reaction to adhere two surfaces.

I believe most of the phenolic tubing is manufactured under heat and pressure, probably not worth the cost and effort to go down that road

 

[SDramstad]

Just roll a fiberglass tube. Way easier

 

[dvdsnyd]

Just roll a fiberglass tube. Way easier

presumably, the OP is looking at rolling phenolic liner tubes for motors.

 

[gamewood]

presumably, I'm thinking the OP is looking at rolling phenolic liner tubes for motors.

True. plus nozzles. In my mind I'm trying to equate the higher grades of epoxy to a binder that is high temperature resistant.

Oddly, I just remembered the space shuttle used an adhesive 'similar to white glue" for their tiles. The phenolic wood glue already suggested might be the ticket.

 

[Grog6]

From what I've read on the shuttle, the tiles were glued down with something really nasty that was eol due to law changes, similar to the tank foam adhesive whose replacement killed Columbia, by not being good enough.

 

[SDramstad]

presumably, the OP is looking at rolling phenolic liner tubes for motors.

Got to this from the front page, didnt realize it was in propulsion..... My bad. OTOH does anyone use fiberglass for liner tubes?

 

[prfesser]

Fiberglass for liners may be a bad idea. Many epoxies used with fiberglass tend to melt/liquefy to some degree before they decompose completely. A motor coated with somewhat-melted epoxy is unlikely to be reuseable. I've reused graphite nozzles that have been epoxied in place, and universally the stuff melts and drips out as the casing is heated with a torch. Stinky, too.

The reason that phenolic is so good for liners and nozzles is that it does not melt. No solid-to-liquid transition; it chars, and the char has some strength.

 

[rocket_troy]

Got to this from the front page, didnt realize it was in propulsion..... My bad. OTOH does anyone use fiberglass for liner tubes?

In solids: I haven't personally seen; for hybrids: I've seen it attempted (just this weekend) and back in the 90s IIRC Eric Claypool from the RRS used epoxy/fiberglass composite tube as an ablative liner in his liquid engine CCs with much success apparently.
I do share the same concerns as Terry with epoxy and extreme temps.

TP