Payloader nosecones

[cyberyokel]

Question – has anyone got any good ideas for holding a nose cone onto a payload section without gluing it ? (So that it’s possible to insert / remove payloads and retain them securely in flight). All I can think of is to fix an eye inside the nosecone and run some elastic through the payload bay and fix it through the base of the payload section where the recovery system attaches. Wouldn’t it be good if the nosecone shoulder screwed into the top of the payload section rather than push fit ?

Having asked my question I shall now digress and ramble on for a bit ! Firstly thanks to every one who has posted on this forum specifically for answering my newbie questions and generally for providing so much inspiration – the stuff you guys are doing is awesome. There don’t seem to be any clubs near me (I’m in South West England) – I’d love to join in some of the launches you’ve been posting about. This is a great hobby – I wish I’d discovered it 20 years ago !

I’m still on the steep bit of the learning curve (and enjoying it too; it takes a while after you leave school to realise that learning can be fun) – my best bit of learning so far has been to feed a scratch built rocket to the great tree God (whose name I dare not mention lest this post gets pulled from the forum). It flew beautifully on a B6-4, stable and high, the streamer deployed perfectly on an externally mounted shock cord ……and then the whole lot drifted off into the trees. It was the breeziest day I’ve yet launched on and before I pressed the button part of my brain was saying ‘you’re about to mess up’ but this was over-ruled by another part of my brain which say ‘go ahead and do it anyway’. Still, I've learned to only launch when it’s dead calm, reminded my self that the launch rod is adjustable to point into wind, and next time I’ll use an A instead of a B. Most importantly though I proved to myself that I can scratch build stable rockets that really fly well. So all in all that’s not bad value for about £5 worth of components. Also I’m now initiated into the art of ‘Looking for a rocket in a jungle’ which is a healthy energetic past-time (and there’s nothing around here that can eat you, Eugene). Looking for rockets is a very three dimensional activity: is it in the undergrowth, 50ft up a tree, or somewhere in between ? – which is why my first practical payload is going to be…………something that goes beep !

I’m just about to paint an Estes Bullpup (which will be another bit of learning – I’ve not painted a rocket before), then I’ve got a Quest Zenith two-stage payloader to build (and the thing-that-goes-beep to make for it too !) .

I’m off now to copy out ‘I will not launch when it’s windy’ 100 times.

 

[KenParker]

Well, first of all, cyberyokel, you can always join Gerringer's "Rocket Donating" Religion, as you seem to have the same compulsive urge to donate perfectly good rockets to the always greedy rocket consuming gods. I'm sure Phil will provide an address where you can send your donations....

Now, on a slightly more serious note, the tried and true way of getting a nose cone to stay on is to wrap the base with masking tape until you get a very snug friction fit. Believe it or don't, this is even the way we do it on large High Power Rockets.

Another way that you can do it, *if* the body tube is strong enough and *if* the nose cone material is strong enough, is to use some small screws through the body tube into the base of the nose cone. I have known some guys to put a layer of fiberglass around the top of the body tube to add enough strength in that location so that they could employ this method.

That's two ways that I know of that you could accomplish what you are trying to do. I imagine some of our more knowledgeable and creative posters will offer up other ways.

Your idea of a screw-on nose cone is intriguing. Perhaps some manufacturer will pick up on the idea.

Glad you are enjoying the hobby. There is so much in this hobby to learn, so many variations of rockets that can be built... I've been in the hobby since the 60's, and I feel like I have barely scratched the surface.

Gotta run, here in the colonies it's about time for me to get ready
to go to work.

- Ken

 

[Austin]

Cyber,

What Ken said is pretty much right on...Friction fitting is used frequently. Moreover, I actually have used small screws through the nosecone on a payload bay and both work well. The only problem with friction fitting is making it tight enough without damaging the bodytube. If you use a thin walled "Estes" style bodytube, it could wrinkle if the friction fit is too tight or it could eventually stretch. The screw method would be preferred in this case and you could add a thin film of epoxy or glass around the holes in the bodytube as Ken suggested.

One other method would be to use a "bolt-on" method for the nosecone. A small threaded rod could be epoxied into the base of the nosecone, then you could install a thin Plywood bulkhead plate in the bodytube right below the nosecone base. A washer and nut would retain the nosecone and make for easy removal...I have used this method for a couple rockets, to include my L3, and it works great.

A couple other things you could do, since you are using a beeper is directly tie it to the shockcord so it exits upon ejection. Some of the manufactured "locator beepers" are designed just for this purpose. Also, it would allow you to hear it better. If your beeper is homemade, the payload bay installation would be preferred. One more option would be to physically mount the beeper inside the nosecone. PML designs some of their plastic nosecones just for this purpose, but you could "add-hauk" and do something similar. One of the above attachment techniques could still be used for fastening the nosecone to the bodytube.

Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress.

Carl

 

[rstaff3]

I have a very minor variation on the advice given thus far.

I have used tape for both Estes type models for years. This works ok if your nose cone is fairly light (ie you haven't crammed it full of clay, BBs, lead, epoxy....etc). On these models, like Carl mentioned, damage to the tube during insertion or removal is more common than losing the nose cone. I have found that if you use a little tape and one small screw, the cone won't go anywhere. I would just add a drop of CA to make the hole just a tad more rigid.

In fact, paranoia has struck and now do this on my HPR rockets too. For just unweighted stock plastic cones, this hybrid tape/screw method has worked fine for me.

And I also agree with Carl regarding beepers. They belong on the recovery system. You need as much volume as you can get. Even if it sounds loud to you, get it pointed the wrong way with a little wind and you'd be suprised how hard they can be to hear.

Well, keep asking questions and having fun!

 

[Brian Barney]

Originally posted by KenParker
Your idea of a screw-on nose cone is intriguing. Perhaps some manufacturer will pick up on the idea.

I think that the old estes pro series terrier sandhawk had a screw on nosecone payload bay. It was molded plastic parts, and the locking tabs were very small and weak. I ended up just taping it together I sure wish they would bring that kit back, it was really cool, and I wish I had saved the kit until now so that I could bash it into a functional 2 stager

-Brian Barney

 

[cyberyokel]

That's great, thanks very much guys, several things to try there.

 

[eugenefl]

Originally posted by Brian Barney


I think that the old estes pro series terrier sandhawk had a screw on nosecone payload bay. It was molded plastic parts, and the locking tabs were very small and weak. I ended up just taping it together I sure wish they would bring that kit back, it was really cool, and I wish I had saved the kit until now so that I could bash it into a functional 2 stager

-Brian Barney

The OOP Estes Omloid (egglofter) also used a screw/twist-on nosecone.

Originally posted by cyberyokel


All I can think of is to fix an eye inside the nosecone and run some elastic through the payload bay and fix it through the base of the payload section where the recovery system attaches.

I've used this method before without any problems. I've also used tape around the shoulder of the nosecone as well without any problems. I used the tape mostly on rockets with clear payloads so that stretching or kinking the BT doesn't occur.