Parachute Swivels

[Kirk G]

Forgive me if I have asked this before...just humor me...

Some guys are recommending that any and every parachute be attached to the rocket or nosecone with a snap swivel.
Some claim that a partucalr style of fishing swivel is better, because it tightens down upon itself. (Can't recall the name of it...)

However, some are recommending a simple caribener even for LPR, saying the ease of slipping a new chute on or off outweighs the question of weight.

Others use a simple but sturdy swivel that is two CLOSED rings that pivot. As I begin to venture out of LPR and into MPR, I'm thinking the thickness and strength of this type of swivel may be the way to go. I received a gift of three from a ventran rocketeer, but I can't find him to ask where they came from. Where would you turn to buy these in a small quantity? Is there a particular source? How much should one spend on a swivel?

 

[tim cubbedge]

I have bought them on ebay. This seller has all different sizes to choose from.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROSCO-SWIV...water-American-swivels-1pc/150932189014?rt=nc

 

[fyrwrxz]

Kirk- I find the stainless salt water fishing swivels locally (but we live by the ocean). Try a tackle store and check the saltwater section for the larger swivels. They usually tell you the rating on the package. I've also had luck off of E-bay buying mondo ones from Australia.

 

[luke strawwalker]

From experience, I would HIGHLY recommend that you use "Coastlock" type swivels. They can be purchased in the fishing section at WalMart. These are black in color, and have a small "tang" sticking out the side of the "loop" that opens and closes. This tang locks into the clip when closed, so that a strong pull or jerk cannot let the loop stretch and pop open by sliding out of the clip that holds it closed. The construction otherwise is identical to the "cheap brass" type snap swivels, other than the brass ones do not have the locking "tang" on the wire loop.

Now, one might think "oh, that can never happen" because the wire seems pretty stiff, and is bent into a loop that latches into the clip. I've had it happen a couple times on different rockets... a late ejection or hard and fast opening of the parachute, especially with a little bit bigger or heavier rocket (for its power size) can be plenty to bend or jerk the loop enough to stretch it and straighten it out, allowing the rocket to separate from the parachute and drop free. Since I switched strictly to coastlock type swivels, I've not had any more problems. The locking tang is sufficient to reinforce the loop and prevent it pulling out of the clip.

If you're moving up to larger and heavier rockets at the high end of the midpower range and into high power, you'll probably want to start looking at ball bearing type swivels. These can be had in larger sizes (some start out quite small however) and are designed to handle more weight and stress than the simpler wire-type swivels. They're also more expensive. Some of the smaller ones could be used on mid-power and even large model rockets, but in a lot of cases, they're probably overkill.

Later and good luck! OL JR

 

[enderw88]

From experience, I would HIGHLY recommend that you use "Coastlock" type swivels. They can be purchased in the fishing section at WalMart. These are black in color, and have a small "tang" sticking out the side of the "loop" that opens and closes. This tang locks into the clip when closed, so that a strong pull or jerk cannot let the loop stretch and pop open by sliding out of the clip that holds it closed. The construction otherwise is identical to the "cheap brass" type snap swivels, other than the brass ones do not have the locking "tang" on the wire loop.

Now, one might think "oh, that can never happen" because the wire seems pretty stiff, and is bent into a loop that latches into the clip. I've had it happen a couple times on different rockets... a late ejection or hard and fast opening of the parachute, especially with a little bit bigger or heavier rocket (for its power size) can be plenty to bend or jerk the loop enough to stretch it and straighten it out, allowing the rocket to separate from the parachute and drop free. Since I switched strictly to coastlock type swivels, I've not had any more problems. The locking tang is sufficient to reinforce the loop and prevent it pulling out of the clip.

If you're moving up to larger and heavier rockets at the high end of the midpower range and into high power, you'll probably want to start looking at ball bearing type swivels. These can be had in larger sizes (some start out quite small however) and are designed to handle more weight and stress than the simpler wire-type swivels. They're also more expensive. Some of the smaller ones could be used on mid-power and even large model rockets, but in a lot of cases, they're probably overkill.

Later and good luck! OL JR

Do you mean these things:

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Fishing snap swivels are great for LPR. The swivel relieves tangling, and the "snap" end with the locking hook allows you to quickly connect it to and disconnect it from the line from the NC and the shock cord that goes to the rocket body.

For MPR and HPR, I like a ball bearing type swivel with a loop at both ends, and I connect it to the line from the NC and the shock cord with a quick link. Top Flight Recovery has swivels of different sizes and quick links.

 

[CZ Brat]

A lot of the on-line rocket suppliers have swivels. Here is a link to the Apogee section with ball bearing swivels.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Building_Supplies/Misc._Hardware?zenid=ui5hr6j0lso4voame8ruogf554

 

[Bat-mite]

Believe it or not, I was once in quick need of a swivel, and no place near me sells them. So I went to Home Depot and bought a detachable key ring.

Works like a charm. I still have it on my Leviathan.

 

[luke strawwalker]

Do you mean these things:

That's one type, yes...

Here's more of what I was talking about... technically they do the same job...

Later! OL JR

 

[Micromeister]

Forgive me if I have asked this before...just humor me...

Some guys are recommending that any and every parachute be attached to the rocket or nosecone with a snap swivel.
Some claim that a partucalr style of fishing swivel is better, because it tightens down upon itself. (Can't recall the name of it...)

However, some are recommending a simple caribener even for LPR, saying the ease of slipping a new chute on or off outweighs the question of weight.

Others use a simple but sturdy swivel that is two CLOSED rings that pivot. As I begin to venture out of LPR and into MPR, I'm thinking the thickness and strength of this type of swivel may be the way to go. I received a gift of three from a ventran rocketeer, but I can't find him to ask where they came from. Where would you turn to buy these in a small quantity? Is there a particular source? How much should one spend on a swivel?

KirkG:
Like every other thing in this hobby there are as many good answers as there are different places and sources.
Like others I use a range of different size and configuration snap swivels for all my Standard LPR and MPR models. generally #14 for small models with Chutes or streamers and #10 for standard model rockets up to about 1 to1.5lb. #2 for MPRs up to about 2.5lbs and Ball Bearing swivels for heavier MPRs Up to 3.3lbs.

While the plain old straight hook Brass snap-swivel has worked well for me for many many years, I do prefer the positive locking hooked wire swivels in #14, #10 and #2 as I have yet to straighten one out with a late ejection heavy load opening. Ball bearing swivels are used with either attached Locking snaploop hook or split ring additions with a locking wire snap Not shown in photo #2.
I find the ability to switch Size of chute or swtich between Chute and Streamer quickly to match field conditions is a HUGE advantage over having to mess around with tying and retying shrould lines and/or connectors.

All are available at just about any Wal-Mart or Your local Fishing/Hunting supply. I get most of mine by on-line Cabela's sporting goods www.cabelas.com
Once you know about what your looking for you'll easily be able to find them in the store or on-line.

 

[Kirk G]

That's one type, yes...

Here's more of what I was talking about... technically they do the same job...
View attachment 248662
Later! OL JR

Well, taking the above advice, I called the closest two WalMarts and asked for their sporting goods dept.
In both instances, the clerk who came on the line did not appear to be the brightest bulb in the pack,
but I asked about the Coastlock swivel and came up empty. However both said they had a package of fishing swivels
with a quick release clip....but didn't recognize the description even when I read the email/posting verbatim.

I finally gave up and drove 5 miles to the nearest one. The clerk had set a package aside at the counter for me, and I
quickly realized that it was identical to the one that had failed on my Mega Mosquito earlier. So I passed, but asked to see the display.
he led me around the end cap and there was a long cluttered row of fishing lures, and on the other side, a small second of black or brass
swivels, mainly too fine. There were some barrel swivels in a couple of sizes and several packages that ran 25 bucks or so. After debating
for a while, I decided to grab two of the black and brass quick release clasps, as the description sounded right, but smaller than I thought
in my minds eye...and a package of brass barrel swivels. So I figure I'll take them along to the next club launch and show them around or
just return what doesn't seem to work for me.

Got to tell you there doesn't seem to be much call for salt water gear here in West Virginia along the Ohio River, guys. But thanks for the detailed advice.
I think I'll experiment.

 

[Bat-mite]

Many online rocket vendors sell them, too -- AMW-ProX, Wildman, Rocketry Warehouse, Aerocon Systems, ....

 

[luke strawwalker]

Well, taking the above advice, I called the closest two WalMarts and asked for their sporting goods dept.
In both instances, the clerk who came on the line did not appear to be the brightest bulb in the pack,
but I asked about the Coastlock swivel and came up empty. However both said they had a package of fishing swivels
with a quick release clip....but didn't recognize the description even when I read the email/posting verbatim.

I finally gave up and drove 5 miles to the nearest one. The clerk had set a package aside at the counter for me, and I
quickly realized that it was identical to the one that had failed on my Mega Mosquito earlier. So I passed, but asked to see the display.
he led me around the end cap and there was a long cluttered row of fishing lures, and on the other side, a small second of black or brass
swivels, mainly too fine. There were some barrel swivels in a couple of sizes and several packages that ran 25 bucks or so. After debating
for a while, I decided to grab two of the black and brass quick release clasps, as the description sounded right, but smaller than I thought
in my minds eye...and a package of brass barrel swivels. So I figure I'll take them along to the next club launch and show them around or
just return what doesn't seem to work for me.

Got to tell you there doesn't seem to be much call for salt water gear here in West Virginia along the Ohio River, guys. But thanks for the detailed advice.
I think I'll experiment.

They aren't really "salt water gear"... I'm not a fisherman (I know a little about it but find it INCREDIBLY boring!) but I've seen them used in both salt and fresh water.

Forget about anybody at Walmart knowing anything about ANYTHING... MOST employees Walmart hires are from the "lowest common denominator" and don't know and/or don't CARE about their products or actually helping the customer, beyond the minimum expected. Usually *I* know more about their products and what they have than the folks working there. Same thing at TSC for the most part...

Like burger flippers, they don't care enough to even do the job they have RIGHT... they want $12-15 bucks an hour for flipping patties... What *I* as a customer want is for the friggin' patties and cheese to be INSIDE THE BUN, NOT melted and stuck all over the flippin' paper! It might also help to get the orders RIGHT more than WRONG... like my brother said one time, "We can send a man to the Moon, but we can't put a friggin' order of fries in a MacDookie's bag..." Do the job RIGHT, THEN ask for a raise!

It could be that it's more of a regional thing, or just a sorry manager/inventory control/sporting goods manager, or whatever. Check a local sporting goods store-- I bet they have them, or at least know what you're talking about. Anything is possible I guess...

Later and best of luck! OL JR

PS. bat-mite makes a good point-- plenty of rocket vendors have them. Probably pay more for them though, BUT... never hurts to support a rocket vendor, especially if you don't have a ready supply locally cheaper.

 

[Onebadhawk]

KirkG:
Like every other thing in this hobby there are as many good answers as there are different places and sources.

Me tooo...
+100...
I love that about rocketry...
I love that there aren't instructions with a really capable HP rocket....
I love that if you ask 10 experienced people how to do something
you'll get 10 different answers that will all work,,
you have to choose what's right for you,, what will work the best with every other aspect of your build....

Very cool.......

Teddy

 

[rharshberger]

What most people are referring to as "salt water gear" are swivels rated over 100lbs, which you most likely will not find (most likely) at Wal-Mart, or even most tackle shops unless you live within 100 miles of the ocean/sea. To find the 100 lb to 1500lb fishing swivels you have to go to deep sea/blue water tackle shops or search the web "deep sea tackle" and then look for "terminal tackle" which is where swivels are hidden. One brand that goes up to 1500lbs is Rosco, they are about $30US for 12 without snaps.

 

[MarkH]

Aeropack sells some that are suitable for smaller HPR:

https://aeropack.net/webstore/products.asp?groupid=7

 

[Space Oddity]

I'm confused.

I recently asked a similar question about swivels and was advised that they are not necessary. As a result I've shelved the use of swivels, fishing or otherwise.

Do they avoid tangles or not? My limited experience suggests they actually make very little difference.

What's the current thinking?

SO

 

[Bat-mite]

I'm confused.

I recently asked a similar question about swivels and was advised that they are not necessary. As a result I've shelved the use of swivels, fishing or otherwise.

Do they avoid tangles or not? My limited experience suggests they actually make very little difference.

What's the current thinking?

SO

My recovery experience has improved vastly since I started using swivels. It is so nice to not have to untie, untangle, and retie my chutes between launches. Quick-link off, quick-link on.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I'm confused.

I recently asked a similar question about swivels and was advised that they are not necessary. As a result I've shelved the use of swivels, fishing or otherwise.

Do they avoid tangles or not? My limited experience suggests they actually make very little difference.

What's the current thinking?

SO

I think swivels help to reduce tangles. And quick links or swivels with snaps make it easier to remove tangles by allowing you to disassemble the recovery gear and untangle the pieces separately.

 

[luke strawwalker]

I'm confused.

I recently asked a similar question about swivels and was advised that they are not necessary. As a result I've shelved the use of swivels, fishing or otherwise.

Do they avoid tangles or not? My limited experience suggests they actually make very little difference.

What's the current thinking?

SO

Personally, I think they help. If you have a 'chute that spins madly (uneven shroud lines, crooked or uneven canopy, etc) it's not going to completely stop winding. I use them and they DO seem to help.

Thing is, it's really useful to be able to swap chutes out between rockets, and it's REALLY BEST if the chutes are NOT stored balled up or even "packed" inside the rocket, which usually leads to 'plastic wad' recovery... plastic chutes DEFINITELY can develop a "memory" and not want to open properly after having been packed or shoved into a rocket during storage.

If you're going to have to have a clip of some sort to connect the parachute to the rocket (so they can be swapped between rockets), WHY NOT have a swivel as part of it??

Makes sense to me. Like I said, the brass ones can disappoint you by straightening out and dropping your rocket if the deployment is just a little too hard or conditions are just a bit too rough for them, but the "coastlock" tab or hook styles pictured in previous posts alleviate that problem...

Good luck! OL JR

 

[JP Morgan]

These have a Great Price! Other smaller sizes there too.
https://www.emmakites.com/5pcs-heavy-duty-9-ball-bearing-snap-swivels-300-lbs_p366.html
Now I see it's in China but says free shipping.

Also check out their rip stop nylon fabric. https://www.emmakites.com/yellow-li...-material-17y-w-×1y-us-stock_p246.html
Is this type suitable to parachutes? Is this a good price per yard? This fabric is in US stores.

Just made a purchase for 5 of these rated at 700 lbs. $8.45 total...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/360207505269?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

JP