New Estes AP Motors - Now Up on Website (Sort Of)

[bobkrech]

I made a thread about this a while ago...
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=30882

turned out okay. Hobbylinc still sells them cheaper.

Hobbylinc has the right idea:
https://www.hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?cat_s=TCS&mfg_s=est
(Edit: Oops, Alex got to it first)

Could this oddity be something really simple and stupid, like Estes' web-store software being unable to deal with a separate Hazmat fee?

It's simple. The Estes website programmer didn't realize the hazmat fee is part of the shipping cost and not the list price, and the Estes management hasn't figured it out either.

Estes is shooting themselves in the foot and hurting their sales. The real list price is listed on the hobbylinc website, and is the same as the AT motor. When Estes doesn't't get a single order, they'll figure it out, and until they fix their website, they probably won't sell many kits that use the "expensive" motors either.

Bob

 

[New Ocean]

Just get the motor retainers in stock again!

 

[Daddyisabar]

Like our old President once said to Jimmy in a late 70's debate - "Well, there you go again!" Well Estes, there you go again!

Golly gee, when I was but a lad Estes was everything, they were King. All I saw when I went into town to the fancy ALCO store was Estes on the shelf. Never heard of Centuri or anyone else. Then I got to go to a big city and a hobby store. There I first saw the MIGHTY D - for experienced fliers only! The Maxi Brute kits, sheathed in crystal clear plastic wrap, were shimmering in a pure, heavenly light (actually it was those old flickering fluorescent lights in the store but it makes for a good story.)

Then time warp to just a few years ago and my BARdom. Estes haters everywhere. Horror stories of failed acquisitions, market manipulation, Ready For Trash … I mean Ready To Fly X-15’s that were doomed to failure. I had to stick up for Estes or else the Flis Kits, Semrocs and Zoochers would take over! Again and again I flew with rubber shock cords, poisonous lead tainted chutes, expensive TP wadding. Shotgun ejection charges had no effect; the Space Ship One E was only banned from the field twice. Yes, I decided to be the lone voice in the wilderness and stand up for my old idle, no matter what the cost. And now, I will have to be super Teflon again, just like our old President, and tell the haters when they bring up $54.00 SU F’s. . . “Well, there you go again!” I now know what it is like to be a Cubs fan.

 

[amarillo_rocket]

I emailed Estes about the issue with their pricing. I suggested they list the hazmat fee seperately and include some verbiage about the fee being per order not per motor and the max # of motors per order. Also they list the motor cost alone so people can tell the real cost of the motor. The lady who responded to my email thanked me and said they would make changes to the site to make things clearer. The exact changes she didn't say. I am sure someone will need to approve the changes.

 

[KenRico]

This shouldn't be a surprise, the Black powder E's are also listed with the HazMat included as part of the price at the Estes Web store - it is not the list price. Hobby linc has the list price listed before their discounts of the new AP motors.

Hey Bob, had a question about the USPS thing, understand what you are saying about propellent sizes - but seems like all the CTI motors for sale online require Hazmat E, F, Gs ect. - is it because they are not grandfathered in to the exemption I hear about ?

Our onsite vendor at Fiesta Island let AeroTech go awhile ago due to inventory issues, order minimums, and delays - hopefully he and others will re-acquire these new rebranded SU through their Estes channels.

Just spotted Belleville's discontinued list for 2012, besides all the classic series, some MPR friendly kits will be gone too : D Region Tomahawk, Interceptor E, Renegade D, and the Super Neon XL .

Kenny

 

[[POW]Eagle159]

The problem is that each engine has the HAZMAT fee.....NOT each shipment.

So $100 for 2 F's, instead of $75, still sounds expensive.

 

[bobkrech]

This shouldn't be a surprise, the Black powder E's are also listed with the HazMat included as part of the price at the Estes Web store - it is not the list price. Hobby linc has the list price listed before their discounts of the new AP motors.

Hey Bob, had a question about the USPS thing, understand what you are saying about propellent sizes - but seems like all the CTI motors for sale online require Hazmat E, F, Gs ect. - is it because they are not grandfathered in to the exemption I hear about ?

Kenny

Kenny

There is no grandfathering with the USPS. You need to obtain annually renewed written authorization from the Posmaster's Office in Washington, DC to ship motors with not more than 30 grams of propellant via USPS Ground Parcel Post. The standard procedure would be for CTI to obtain the permission and extend it to their distributors.

Bob

 

[DJDeadParrot]

It came down to there being no real standard for the min/max ID of a 29mm motor tube.

Were they suggesting there was no standard for how big a millimeter is?

 

[plano-doug]

Were they suggesting there was no standard for how big a millimeter is?

Notice, I said "min/max". 29mm is easy enough to understand...until you get to the engineering issue of tolerance. Is that 29mm±5%? ±2%? ±0.5mm? When there's no agreement or concrete definition on the min/max range, then the door is always open for incompatibility. And, as I understand, there was no agreed upon standard for this size motor.

(For that matter, I've wondered what the actual dimension limits are for 18mm and 24 mm motors. No doubt, the Quest 18mm motors are much looser fitting, in BT-20, for example, than Estes 18mm motors.)

Doug

.

 

[Johnny1Eye]

Quote:
Originally Posted by plano-doug View Post
It came down to there being no real standard for the min/max ID of a 29mm motor tube.
Were they suggesting there was no standard for how big a millimeter is?

Notice, I said "min/max". 29mm is easy enough to understand...until you get to the engineering issue of tolerance. Is that 29mm±5%? ±2%? ±0.5mm? When there's no agreement or concrete definition on the min/max range, then the door is always open for incompatibility. And, as I understand, there was no agreed upon standard for this size motor.

(For that matter, I've wondered what the actual dimension limits are for 18mm and 24 mm motors. No doubt, the Quest 18mm motors are much looser fitting, in BT-20, for example, than Estes 18mm motors.)

What a bunch of...... So every Manufacturer BUT ESTES got it right? ya OK...
I have a NorthCoast by Estes Bomarc sitting in my closet. The tube is not even close! Even with a lot of sanding it would not fit a 29mm motor, re-loadable or SU. The Darkstar motors they made (re-labeled?) were kinda cool though.

 

[GDJ]

The problem is that each engine has the HAZMAT fee.....NOT each shipment.

So $100 for 2 F's, instead of $75, still sounds expensive.

Oh yeah. Let me put it this way:

I just picked up 2 packs of Aerotech F20W-7 and 2 packs of Aerotech F23J-7 plus a Copperhead igniter clip for $140 CDN.

That's 8 engines and a accessory piece.

I hope that is just a theoretical retail price for Estes to publish, but what they are printing on the website really priced them right out of the ballpark.

 

[plano-doug]

What a bunch of...... So every Manufacturer BUT ESTES got it right? ya OK...

Well, at the time, how many other 29mm motor makers were there besides AT (and NCR/Estes)? We know Cesaroni wasn't around. Nor was Road Runner. I don't think Ellis was making 29's then. Who does that leave? Vulcan? Rocketflite? Did you fly those in your Bomarc? What, besides the Darkstars, did you use?

Doug

.

 

[Initiator001]

Just spotted Belleville's discontinued list for 2012, besides all the classic series, some MPR friendly kits will be gone too : D Region Tomahawk, Interceptor E, Renegade D, and the Super Neon XL .

Kenny

Ken,

Thanks for the tip. I went to the Belleville website and printed the discontinued list. This is the first 'official' list that I have seen.

Wow.

That's alot of kits being discontinued. The Plasma Probe was the cover model for the 2011 catalog. Another cover model, the Interceptor, is gone too. The Comanche-3 being discontinued!? I remember always selling out of these kits when I worked in a hobby shop years ago.

I guess the sales numbers/$$$ just weren't there.

 

[GDJ]

Ken,

..... The Comanche-3 being discontinued!? I remember always selling out of these kits when I worked in a hobby shop years ago.

I guess the sales numbers/$$$ just weren't there.

Whaa? I better grab one soon. Maybe 2.

 

[KenRico]

Ken,

Thanks for the tip. I went to the Belleville website and printed the discontinued list. This is the first 'official' list that I have seen.

Wow.

That's alot of kits being discontinued. The Plasma Probe was the cover model for the 2011 catalog. Another cover model, the Interceptor, is gone too. The Comanche-3 being discontinued!? I remember always selling out of these kits when I worked in a hobby shop years ago.

I guess the sales numbers/$$$ just weren't there.

Yeah was hunting there instead of acs because they had quest ect, and was originally hoping to see a feb/march on the new order form for the nike smoke - but alas it is not on the new form. Commanche and interceptors long time staples , hopefully just going into the vault for a bit,ala disney.

Off topic need something like loc legacy but want ttw fins for cti 29mm long burn and 24mm dual thrust... any suggestions? So far frywrx solution was best he bought dd arreaux from CJ. So far best candidate is legacy clone, aeropack & ttw g10 fins , not fond of the pml calipso, but am torn on nc either loc pnc or modding one of the sexy harmon karmen filament wound to mate . Anyway feed back welcome.

Kenny

 

[El Phantasmo]

On the issue of motor production mistakes, either pricing, compatibility or tolerance... I simply peeled out some of the paper inside the motor mount tube of my NRC Lance Beta. It wasn't ideal, but I thought it was better and easier than sanding down 29mm SU motors and it works.

Engines that are a little loose are easier to adapt than ones that are too big.

2c

 

[UPscaler]

I know what motors I won't be flying...





Braden

 

[New Ocean]

Notice, I said "min/max". 29mm is easy enough to understand...until you get to the engineering issue of tolerance. Is that 29mm±5%? ±2%? ±0.5mm? When there's no agreement or concrete definition on the min/max range, then the door is always open for incompatibility.
.

If that is the case, and they are somehow unable to buy an aerotech motor for 15 bucks and measure it with calipers, and also somehow unable to test fit motors with rockets... the very least they could do is make the motor mount tube slightly larger. 29mm + 5 percent and the motor fits with tape. 29mm - 5 percent and it never fits...

 

[Initiator001]

Many (Not all) of the Estes Pro Series motors are now listed on the Estes website as available to order.

 

[shreadvector]

Many (Not all) of the Estes Pro Series motors are now listed on the Estes website as available to order.

Trickling in to retailers everywhere.

https://www.ehobbies.com/est2305.html

 

[Grimracer]

The price thing again on the net..:bangpan:lol

Grim

 

[Tronman]

Trickling in to retailers everywhere.

https://www.ehobbies.com/est2305.html

Are those Copperheads?

 

[GregGleason]

Are those Copperheads?

No.

This is from John Boren (an Estes guy):

FYI. The Sonic Igniters are a completly new igniter. The leads are ten inches long. Their tips are small enough to be used on 18mm D10 size composite motors, yet they have no problem lighting 29 mm G motors.


John Boren

Greg

 

[New Ocean]

Might have to get some of these igniters to replace 24/40 copperheads...

 

[KenRico]

Holy crap! You can buy an F26 or F50 from Wildman for $14.99 any time. The $25.00 Hazmat gets spread over your whole motor order so it is WAY cheaper to buy them from Tim.

I keep the USPS Shippable list in my computer, phone, and rangebox . https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/uploads/f5c5671d-af10-41bb-bb17-47f1d7963824_usps_shippable_2-23-10.pdf

The motors listed there are the first thing I RockSim with my simulations.

Was buying some LOC MMTs (use for all my LPR and MPR builds) from the WILDMAN and added a G64W to my order to replace the one I used last week . Thanks again Tim !

Have had to buy ahead on my AeroTech because our onsite vendor has no composites.

Need to L2 next, bring on the Certification Specials !

Kenny