NAR Engine Test Data Updates

[mh9162013]

The NAR says that its Standards and Testing Committee "...re-tests each approved engine type once in every five-year cycle..."

But when I look at their engine test data online, I'm looking at data that's over 20 years old. For example, the Estes A8-3 data is from 1995. What am I missing? Is there more recent data that I'm not aware of, but can readily access? Or maybe they only publish online more recent test data when it's substantially different than what's already available onine?

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

This was brought last year at NAR. Why don’t they update the motor list on their website? There’s several new motors missing and many that are no longer available. Something about too much paperwork, etc.

 

[BEC]

Ron, if you‘re thinking about Q-Jets, they were certified by Tripoli, not the NAR, so the NAR doesn’t have the data to post. As for no longer available….just because they’re OOP doesn’t mean they’re not still at vendors or in people’s stashes. I forget what the time frame is, but they don’t lose their cert for being OOP for a number of years. (That is a whole ‘nother discussion….)

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Ron, if you‘re thinking about Q-Jets, they were certified by Tripoli, not the NAR, so the NAR doesn’t have the data to post. As for no longer available….just because they’re OOP doesn’t mean they’re not still at vendors or in people’s stashes. I forget what the time frame is, but they don’t lose their cert for being OOP for a number of years. (That is a whole ‘nother discussion….)

That's sad. I see E20W and E30(T) but no D22W and E26W. There's a column for "Tested by" with all listed as NAR. Why bother adding the column? There are some Quest motors. I guess they're waiting for NAR to test the C12FJ, C18W, and D20W.

Also, why are some of the HPR motors highlighted? Just curious.

https://www.nar.org/standards-and-testing-committee/nar-certified-motor-list/

 

[BEC]

That's sad. I see E20W and E30(T) but no D22W and E26W. There's a column for "Tested by" with all listed as NAR. Why bother adding the column? There are some Quest motors. I guess they're waiting for NAR to test the C12FJ, C18W, and D20W.

Also, why are some of the HPR motors highlighted? Just curious.

https://www.nar.org/standards-and-testing-committee/nar-certified-motor-list/

I don't know what those highlights are (now that I see them). Hmmmmmm.

All the others you mentioned are Q-Jets, certified by Tripoli. It looks like they point to test data hosted on thrustcurve.org from the Tripoli site: https://www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=795696&module_id=494535 It looks like one has to be a Tripoli member to see the actual certification documents (under the "certification" links on that page).

No, I don't have any idea why the NAR lists the certification authority on that page when they are only showing data that originated with NAR S&T. The other list, the combined certified motors list https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/CombinedMotorsByImpulse.pdf is always the current one. The link on the Tripoli site for this points to the same place.

 

[dhbarr]

I don't know what those highlights are (now that I see them). Hmmmmmm.

All the others you mentioned are Q-Jets, certified by Tripoli. It looks like they point to test data hosted on thrustcurve.org from the Tripoli site: https://www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=795696&module_id=494535 It looks like one has to be a Tripoli member to see the actual certification documents (under the "certification" links on that page).

No, I don't have any idea why the NAR lists the certification authority on that page when they are only showing data that originated with NAR S&T. The other list, the combined certified motors list https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/CombinedMotorsByImpulse.pdf is always the current one. The link on the Tripoli site for this points to the same place.

In theory also CAR and/or possibly UKRA might have reciprocity, but it's been a long time since I looked.

 

[BEC]

CAR, Tripoli and NAR have reciprocity. See the combined list in the last post. That's where you'll find Cesaroni stuff certified by CAR, as well as motors TRA has certified.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Following a summit meeting a few years ago, TMT, NAR S&T, and CAR MCC agreed that certifications would not expire and that not every motor type needed to be retested every five years. The manufacturers jointly complained that they couldn’t afford such retesting, NFPA 1125 doesn’t require retesting based on time, and the certification organizations were kept busy testing new motor types. There are conditions that could result in a certification organization requiring retesting. Tripoli’s motor testing manual reflects this.

 

[BEC]

Thanks for the updates, Steve.

I can see that the composite motor makers in particular, with their HUGE product lines, would find periodic retesting onerous.

If the agreement is that certifications don’t expire, may I start using my stash of 1/2A3-0Ts and 1/2A6-0s without sending a note to Steve Lubliner first?

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I don't know what those highlights are (now that I see them). Hmmmmmm.

All the others you mentioned are Q-Jets, certified by Tripoli. It looks like they point to test data hosted on thrustcurve.org from the Tripoli site: https://www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=795696&module_id=494535 It looks like one has to be a Tripoli member to see the actual certification documents (under the "certification" links on that page).

No, I don't have any idea why the NAR lists the certification authority on that page when they are only showing data that originated with NAR S&T. The other list, the combined certified motors list https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/CombinedMotorsByImpulse.pdf is always the current one. The link on the Tripoli site for this points to the same place.

Thanks. I'll bookmark that pdf instead of the website.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Thanks for the updates, Steve.

I can see that the composite motor makers in particular, with their HUGE product lines, would find periodic retesting onerous.

If the agreement is that certifications don’t expire, may I start using my stash of 1/2A3-0Ts and 1/2A6-0s without sending a note to Steve Lubliner first?

That is a question for the NAR. If you were flying with Tripoli it would be no problem.

 

[BEC]

Understood!

It was mostly a facetious question. I don’t mind bugging Steve Lubliner on occasion. But that tells me that at Sod Blaster 4 I can use them on Friday or Sunday.

Of course on that huge site, 1/2A boosters are not really needed…..