[Motor Purchased] 5 inch diameter rocket and a CTI O3400.

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I guess my thread is pretty much dead until I start my T2T. My "Rocket Room" does not get warmer then 60-65 degrees or so in the winter (old house and room is upstairs). So once the warmer months get here and when the ambiant room tempertature reaches 75-80 degrees that is when I will start. Again, old house and room is upstairs. In winter the room is colder and in summer the room is at 80-90 degrees. Even with Central Heat and Air. But everyday it gets closer and closer!!!!!!
 
Well boys I am one step closer. I order custom shock cords from Mark at LOC. I ordered 30 foot 1 inch tubular nylon, 3 foot 1 inch tubular nylon, 20 foot 1 inch tubular nylon, and 1 inch 5 foot tubular nylon.

The 30 foot will anchor to motor then attach to a quick link, the 3 foot will then attach to the quick link then attach to ebay. LOC Angle drogue chute attaches to this quick link. 20 foot will attach to other end of ebay then attach to a quick link. Then 5 foot will attach to quick link and anchor to nosecone. The main will attach to that quick link near nosecone.

This is the recovery system I will be using. I have not yet ordered, but will in a few weeks. I will be getting the "Size 10"
https://rocketrecoverysystems.com/Products.html
 
andrewlathrop87 said:
Well boys I am one step closer. I order custom shock cords from Mark at LOC. I ordered 30 foot 1 inch tubular nylon, 3 foot 1 inch tubular nylon, 20 foot 1 inch tubular nylon, and 1 inch 5 foot tubular nylon.

The 30 foot will anchor to motor then attach to a quick link, the 3 foot will then attach to the quick link then attach to ebay. LOC Angle drogue chute attaches to this quick link. 20 foot will attach to other end of ebay then attach to a quick link. Then 5 foot will attach to quick link and anchor to nosecone. The main will attach to that quick link near nosecone.

This is the recovery system I will be using. I have not yet ordered, but will in a few weeks. I will be getting the "Size 10"
https://rocketrecoverysystems.com/Products.html
Click to expand...

Mark is an expert--good choice!
 
Nothing really new to report. Just waiting for the weather to warm up so I can do T2T with vacuum bagging. I thought of an idea. Kent burrnet said Aeropoxy must be used with ambiant air temperature at a minimum of 75 degrees f. My thought was to get at red heat lamp from lowes that is like 250w. Plug that in and point it in the direction of the work and let it heat up the room where I am working. Is that a good idea or not smart? I figured it must be on for a while, just enough to bring room temp to required amount and leave it on until the epoxy is cured. But IDK?
 
View attachment 165259

This is a set of 1 inch tubular nylon from Mark at LOC. 30 foot for apogee then drogue chute attaches on a 3 foot piece from ebay. main is on a 20 foot cord and then parachute is attached to a 5 foot cord from nose cone. So there is a total of 33 for drogue and 25 for main.
 
andrewlathrop87 said:
Nothing really new to report. Just waiting for the weather to warm up so I can do T2T with vacuum bagging. I thought of an idea. Kent burrnet said Aeropoxy must be used with ambiant air temperature at a minimum of 75 degrees f. My thought was to get at red heat lamp from lowes that is like 250w. Plug that in and point it in the direction of the work and let it heat up the room where I am working. Is that a good idea or not smart? I figured it must be on for a while, just enough to bring room temp to required amount and leave it on until the epoxy is cured. But IDK?
Click to expand...

I think Kent is being a little too cautious. The can may say to use at 75 degrees and up but I've done several layups this winter all in the low to mid 60s with no adverse effects. The only noticeable difference is it takes a tad longer than 24 hours to fully cure. After 24 hours it's still pretty hard, but not rock hard. I would just move the project after doing the layup, and put it in a warmer spot like under heat lamps you mention to let it cure, if you want the normal 24 hour cure or quicker. I actually prefer to use Aeropoxy at slightly lower temps, as the working time seems to be extended a little longer than 1 hour (for the 3660 hardener).
 
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MarkH said:
I think Kent is being a little too cautious. The can may say to use at 75 degrees and up but I've done several layups this winter all in the low to mid 60s with no adverse effects. The only noticeable difference is it takes a tad longer than 24 hours to fully cure. After 24 hours it's still pretty hard, but not rock hard. I would just move the project after doing the layup, and put it in a warmer spot like under heat lamps you mention to let it cure, if you want the normal 24 hour cure or quicker. I actually prefer to use Aeropoxy at slightly lower temps, as the working time seems to be extended a little longer than 1 hour (for the 3660 hardener).
Click to expand...

From experience each hardener reacts differently to temperature. I have noticed when using the new hardener below the recommended working temp at 77 degrees. The top surface of the resin becomes into a soft solid Jello like state. I believe the reason why it does that is because it cures at room temperature unlike the two hour hardener, which requires heat in order to cure. Just like the one hour hardener, which I have no doubt Kent uses, also cures at room temperature. Therefore he is right to go with a heat source to keep the resin flowing.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
I'd recommend doing tip-tip vacuum bagged no matter your temperature - the layup is *far* denser than you could ever achieve via any other means. Use perf film and breather rather than peel ply and you'll save yourself *some* work on the filling, use 2 layers or more of veil (30-50gsm fibreglass) over your carbon or thicker cloth, as this gives you something you can accidentally sand into without affecting structuring integrity when trying to get a smooth finish.

I'd also suggest buying a really cheap 3 temperature fan heater (off, low, high) rather than lamps. Fan heaters are awesome for curing composites and providing wider area heat than a hair dryer with lower airspeeds. Some heat lamps have a UV component to their output, and that may damage your epoxy as it cures - use with caution if providing direct heat. They might work well in a box where they dont shine on your composites but avoid using them directly. UV will go through most coloured filters not specifically designed to stop it, just like IR will.

Also, on your rail buttons - I've had 1515 POM buttons at M2 for over 2 seconds with no sign of heat damage, they had strong flat sections from the launch rail though, so I'd plan for replacements after your flight either way.
 
I ordered some vaccum bag supplies. I ordered 3 yards of perferated peel ply, 3 yards of 4oz breather fabric, 5 yards of vacuum bagging, reusable plastic 1/2 inch vacuum port. All from Fibreglast.com
 
Here's the CTI O3400IM in my Albatross. Height- 12', Diameter - 8", Pad Weight 110lbs, Altitude - 15,342' Just for reference as to what that motors going to do in a 5" bird. Should be pretty damn cool.

[video=youtube;CVuVriFen9A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVuVriFen9A&list=FLQ-geJiHPmaW2AUyjknCYLA&feature=share&index=4[/video]
 
andrewlathrop87 said:
This is the type of vacuum pump I am looking to get. Its the lowest price I have seen. https://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321312047858

Seems to be good. As long as all leaks have been sealed this pump should work.
Click to expand...

This looks pretty similar to one at Harbor Freight.

https://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html

I use the Harbor Freight one - because I have it - but there are likely better choices. One issue is that these HVAC pumps go to nearly a complete vacuum. With some epoxies, a somewhat lower vacuum is more desirable (although this doesn't seem to be an issue with Aeropoxy). The other issue is that you get oil in the exhaust. This can be minimized by having everything well sealed (the more air throughput, the more oil you get). Even though the oil can be minimized, I still attach a hose to the output and vent it outdoors.

Jim
 
I have used a Robinaire for about a decade now for EX propellant purposes. I highly recommend it as it's one of the more reliable brands out there. Make sure you keep it filled with oil!
 
That is what I am concerned about. Even though its an electric motor, I did not know if it was still wise to use it indoors. But if I hook up a tube up to the outlet tube and run the tube outside, it will be perfectly safe to run indoors?
 
I have pretty much the same pump as the 3cfm one. Keep in mind that you'll make a lot of misted oil as it breathes, so keep it on some plastic and make it some little walls of plastic sheet (like a painters drop sheet.)

https://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/EVS/concept.htm

Build one of these, You can buy the kit for it here:
https://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Project-EVS-Auto-Cycling-Pump-Vacuum-Press-Kit.html - $165 on sale! As a note, the damper option doesn't seem to fit the pumps you listed, however they are rather quiet.

I built one of these, however had to use different piping as the same is not available here. It's really fantastic to have the mac valve and reservoir.

You didn't say you bought vacuum bag sealer/mastic? If you didnt, get a good roll of it, you'll be needing it! Blutac suffices in a pinch, but costs a whole lot more (but you can run down to the local grocery store and get it after hours!)
 
Only if you like frequent returns to China Freight.
I also have a Robinair, I bought back in 2003 and still running!
I use mine for degassing as well.
You need to change the oil every so often.


JD

JimJarvis50 said:
This looks pretty similar to one at Harbor Freight.

https://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html

I use the Harbor Freight one - because I have it - but there are likely better choices. One issue is that these HVAC pumps go to nearly a complete vacuum. With some epoxies, a somewhat lower vacuum is more desirable (although this doesn't seem to be an issue with Aeropoxy). The other issue is that you get oil in the exhaust. This can be minimized by having everything well sealed (the more air throughput, the more oil you get). Even though the oil can be minimized, I still attach a hose to the output and vent it outdoors.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
JDcluster said:
Only if you like frequent returns to China Freight.
I also have a Robinair, I bought back in 2003 and still running!
I use mine for degassing as well.
You need to change the oil every so often.


JD
Click to expand...

I didn't recommend the Harbor Freight unit - I just said I had one. Hey, it was cheap. And I also said there were better choices. My first unit failed, and as I recall, they let me buy the extended warranty after the fact. Nice of them. The second one has worked fine. I've probably run it 300 hours perhaps over several years. Could be worse, but I'm sure there are better units.

I run mine indoors with the hose vented outside. No problem. I always try to seal the bag completely so that oil consumption is low. I've added almost no oil at all.

Jim
 
i like these pumps, but I am worried about continuous operation. I dont want to burn the pump up, or can it run all the time? If it needs to be run for a long period of time should I look for a more expensive pump?
 
That is why I recommend the kit from Veneer Supplies, it has the valves and cutoffs to allow you to have a very low duty cycle on your pump, even with small leaks. The vacuum reservoir (pvc pipe in this case) allows the pump to be off through a small leak, as the reservoir will keep the vacuum at an acceptable level through it - then kick the pump back on when it gets too low. With no leak you might have the pump go on for a minute or two every few hours, with a pin prick hole maybe a minute an hour. The adjustability of the vacuum switch also allows you to pull more or less of a vacuum depending on the work you are doing.
 
andrewlathrop87 said:
i like these pumps, but I am worried about continuous operation. I dont want to burn the pump up, or can it run all the time? If it needs to be run for a long period of time should I look for a more expensive pump?
Click to expand...

You won't have to worry about burning up the pump. I have the $80 US General pump from Harbor Freight that Jim has and I did a lay-up the other day with some slow curing Aeropoxy. I had the pump running for about 30 hours straight, and it's still going strong. Just make sure that you have plenty of oil, because mine ran though almost all of the oil that was in it when it was full.
 
mannyskid said:
I have the $80 US General pump from Harbor Freight that Jim has...
Click to expand...

That sounds like the 2.5 cfm model. I have the $150, 3.0 cfm two stage version.

I typically leave it run over night. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

Jim
 
I have the 2.5 CFM model from Harbor Freight. According to the manual, it actually has a hi temp protection circuit on it that shuts off if it gets too hot. I haven't had it get hot enough to have it shut off. Being the Robinair model you're looking at is the same type of pump and probably of better quality, I would think it'd have the same feature. So it's not likely the pump will burn up, nor burn your house down.

I've let it run for 12 hours straight on 3 bagging sessions within the past year, plus several other 6 hour sessions and haven't had any problems. I do run a small fan over it though to aid in cooling.
 
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I bought a digital thermometer last night at Lowes. I was concerned about the temp and humidity in my rocket room. For one if the temp is to low (lower) than 77 degrees Kent burnett said Aeropoxy wont setup right, must be over 77. After the themometer was up there for a few hours, around 9pm it said the temp there was 76 degrees with 37% humidity. So if I wait a few more weeks, lets say by the beginning of April my rocket room should be higher than 77 degrees. But hoping the humidity level is still low. I figured if I get the temperature i want, but the humidity is higher then I would like I thought about getting a dehumidifier. I dont want the epoxy to blush!
 
andrewlathrop87 said:
I bought a digital thermometer last night at Lowes. I was concerned about the temp and humidity in my rocket room. For one if the temp is to low (lower) than 77 degrees Kent burnett said Aeropoxy wont setup right, must be over 77. After the themometer was up there for a few hours, around 9pm it said the temp there was 76 degrees with 37% humidity. So if I wait a few more weeks, lets say by the beginning of April my rocket room should be higher than 77 degrees. But hoping the humidity level is still low. I figured if I get the temperature i want, but the humidity is higher then I would like I thought about getting a dehumidifier. I dont want the epoxy to blush!
Click to expand...

It isn't a hard line. You can do it now.

Also, 37% is not high humidity by any measure. Don't worry about blushing.
 

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