Motor law now in the UK

[Drazic]

I was once all into it then left and now getting wind of coming back. However last time i checked i had to have tons of paper work to get AT or CTI motors and my local police wouldn't let anyone! I heared this has changed yet shipping is still an issue.

Can someone tell me whats what please? What i'm allowed with no L1+, no NRA #, no UKRA #, biggest motors sizes both SU and RMS.

Getting bord of clustering Estes BP D's and E's though it is fun!

Got money to burn and want to get the smell of AP

 

[rocketstoreuk]

Hi

First statement is that Estes E engines are illegal in the UK becasue they are not CE marked, so if a vendor sells them to you or gives them to you or "trades" them to you, it is illegal.

Estes A-D are fine and you can up to 5Kg of net propellant without any paperwork.

AP motors are a little more complex. You are now allowed to purchase certain motors for use in model rockets without the need for an explosives license, as long as each motor is no more than 1Kg of net propellant (thats a small K) and you have no more than 5Kg of net propellant in total. If you want a large K or more than 5Kg then you need an explosives license as before. The UN numbers are all the ones for AT and Cesaroni SU, RMS and all the reloadables of all types for those 2 manufacturers.

Transportation laws havent changed, just MSER and COER. So you still need an RCA from HSE to cover moving them around.

All motors must be CE marked and be classified by HSE, so if purchasing from abroad, be careful you are being legal, it is down to you! If you purchase from a UK vendor then hopefully the UK vendor will only be selling UK legal motors so you shouldnt have to be so careful.

Another point is that the 5Kg is total for all, so if you have 2Kg of Estes, you only have 3Kg left for AP engines.

You still need an explosives license for Black Powder, but not for Pyrodex.

Hope this helps.

 

[robbstech]

Hi

First statement is that Estes E engines are illegal in the UK becasue they are not CE marked, so if a vendor sells them to you or gives them to you or "trades" them to you, it is illegal.

Estes A-D are fine and you can up to 5Kg of net propellant without any paperwork.

AP motors are a little more complex. You are now allowed to purchase certain motors for use in model rockets without the need for an explosives license, as long as each motor is no more than 1Kg of net propellant (thats a small K) and you have no more than 5Kg of net propellant in total. If you want a large K or more than 5Kg then you need an explosives license as before. The UN numbers are all the ones for AT and Cesaroni SU, RMS and all the reloadables of all types for those 2 manufacturers.

Transportation laws havent changed, just MSER and COER. So you still need an RCA from HSE to cover moving them around.

All motors must be CE marked and be classified by HSE, so if purchasing from abroad, be careful you are being legal, it is down to you! If you purchase from a UK vendor then hopefully the UK vendor will only be selling UK legal motors so you shouldnt have to be so careful.

Another point is that the 5Kg is total for all, so if you have 2Kg of Estes, you only have 3Kg left for AP engines.

You still need an explosives license for Black Powder, but not for Pyrodex.

Hope this helps.

Hi not trying to take over the thread but could you please send me the un numbers for estes engines, aerotech single use, rms motors and various igniters so I can apply for a RCA document!

Thanks
Rob

 

[rocketstoreuk]

Hi not trying to take over the thread but could you please send me the un numbers for estes engines, aerotech single use, rms motors and various igniters so I can apply for a RCA document!

Thanks
Rob

Hi Rob

They are all on our website,
https://www.rocketstore.co.uk/info/engines_legal.aspx

Goto the bottom of the page, the 4 exempted UN number for AT reloads etc are there.

 

[Drazic]

Hi

First statement is that Estes E engines are illegal in the UK becasue they are not CE marked, so if a vendor sells them to you or gives them to you or "trades" them to you, it is illegal.

Estes A-D are fine and you can up to 5Kg of net propellant without any paperwork.

AP motors are a little more complex. You are now allowed to purchase certain motors for use in model rockets without the need for an explosives license, as long as each motor is no more than 1Kg of net propellant (thats a small K) and you have no more than 5Kg of net propellant in total. If you want a large K or more than 5Kg then you need an explosives license as before. The UN numbers are all the ones for AT and Cesaroni SU, RMS and all the reloadables of all types for those 2 manufacturers.

Transportation laws havent changed, just MSER and COER. So you still need an RCA from HSE to cover moving them around.

All motors must be CE marked and be classified by HSE, so if purchasing from abroad, be careful you are being legal, it is down to you! If you purchase from a UK vendor then hopefully the UK vendor will only be selling UK legal motors so you shouldnt have to be so careful.

Another point is that the 5Kg is total for all, so if you have 2Kg of Estes, you only have 3Kg left for AP engines.

You still need an explosives license for Black Powder, but not for Pyrodex.

Hope this helps.

Hi Richard,


I though Estes where and had been CE'd! I guess i better use the 30 packs i got here fast then!

I still have the porblem that no one can ship me any AP motors. I'm only wanting E, F, G.

I'll have to sort out an RCA

So no paper work needed if wanting to fly under 1kg.

Still screwed on getting them motors here to me

 

[spacecadet]

I don't think it's illegal to use up your stock, as they're still exempt BP. You just can't buy any more. I understand that the CE marking has nothing to do with explosives licensing- it's a piece of single market bureaucracy- and Estes can't justify the large fee for something which sells in small numbers. So although the motor hasn't changed at all, you now can't sell it. It's not the only example of EU silliness.
When you meet other rocketeers (Cydermaster is in your part of the world) you'll learn about other motors. Word-of-mouth is the best way to find out about them.

 

[rocketstoreuk]

I don't think it's illegal to use up your stock, as they're still exempt BP.

I think if you acquired them before MSER came in (2003?) then you are allowed to store and transport them, but if you acquired them after that time I believe it is illegal to posess them or transport them. It is a common misconception that people think "placing on the market" phrase in the MSER law means selling, but it doesnt. HSE told me even if you give them away or trade them it is illegal.

Estes arent CE marked. Estes A-D are UN0432 which is exempt from CE marking, but Estes E are UN0276 which isnt exempt from CE marking.

We are trying to get a shipping method for AP engines and may have some news soon, but it is really difficult. We all have to be so careful at the moment. There are so few couriers wishing to even send Estes engines, all we need is someone to slip up and the courier could pull out and then even the Estes mail order market would die overnight.

Most of the laws make no sense and there is no consistency, but vendors and rocketeers have to follow them, otherwise the authorities and/or couriers will just take our hobby away from us.

If you are in Bristol why not go down to FOG when a vendor is there and pick up a few motors.

 

[robbstech]

We are trying to get a shipping method for AP engines and may have some news soon, but it is really difficult.

Hope i'm not causing trouble but does this mean you may be able to send AP Motors?

 

[rocketstoreuk]

Here is what is happening with Business Post:

Currently BusinessPost only allow Class 1.4S UN0432. We are awaiting a decision by BusinesPost to agree to ship other class 1.4S UN numbers. If they agree then currently some of the smaller Single Use Aerotech motors can be shipped. Later this year SpaceTech and Rocket Store will be getting a lot more motors reclassified with HSE. Currently a lot of Aerotech motors, single use and hobby line are wrongly classified as 1.4C in the UK. Once these are reclassified as 1.4S then if BusinessPost say yes then we can ship more of them.

With regard the larger RMS motors and all the small ones if BusinessPost say no, we are trying to get TNT to agree to ship them. Currently TNT only allow shipping for members of the Gun Trade. We are trying to get in there, but it takes time.

We are trying our best to find legal ways of shipping these motors to people.

 

[Drazic]

Wow lots of stuff on going then!

I honestly don't see the issue as i have Nitrous, Oxygen, Aceltaine, R404a, R507a, R12, R22, R1150 delivered at home by courries as such DHL, ANC, TNT, Parcle Force etc etc! That lot is way more dangores than AP or BP.

Thank you for the heads up and everything.

I just Googled about FOG then check the AA planner to see how far it is. 35 mins, 21 miles from mine! Not bad, only snag is i will not pay the bridge toll so i'll have to go over on the motorbike which mean a ruck sack full of motors!

I'll contact them and find out whom will be there

 

[rocketstoreuk]

You are right, couriers will transport all kinds of hazardous stuff, just about everything except class 1 which is explosives. I think compressed gas and toxic chemicals are far more dangerous than AP.

 

[robbstech]

You are right, couriers will transport all kinds of hazardous stuff, just about everything except class 1 which is explosives. I think compressed gas and toxic chemicals are far more dangerous than AP.

The law is on its butt in this country!

 

[CrownUK]

I know this is a very old thread, but nothing has changed in all that time.

I live in the UK , I still can’t understand why the Estes E and F engines do not carry a CE mark so can be sold here .

Does anyone know if anything is being done to sell to the European market?
Estes seems to recently be offering more in the kit range that caters for E engines and are offering bulk packs of them , so surely would want to have them in all markets.