Missile Works RTx?

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A quick update on system progress:

1. The Cyber Sales and RTx pre-orders were crazy, and I'm still buried building/flashing/testing/bagging/boxing/labeling, etc. with the items we can ship. Thanks for everyone's patience so far.

2. I have the beta PCB layout finished with new PCB's in hand, and should be able to test a first article beta tomorrow night... not a ton-of changes, but I addressed all the alpha board shortcomings.

3. Based on all the user feedback so far I'm making additional improvements to the RTx firmware and hope to call this our final "beta" version (adding "directional cues", ETA to landing zone, and other simplifications)

4. If all goes to plan my goal is to send another "pair" of beta boards with the latest "beta" software out to Mark Miller and Ben Russell for some test flights at Battle Park this coming Saturday. Mark still has an alpha system "in hand", so even if we can't deliver an all-up beta system, both Mark and Ben will be making some flights using the alpha system. Be sure to stop in and get a peek at the hardware and/or ask questions. Mark & Ben are venerable RTx experts now and they can demonstrate all the capabilities the system can support.

Still on track for a late January release provided we don't step on some unforeseen land mines. Results so far have been very encouraging, and at this stage in the development and evaluations I don't think that's gonna happen. The $279 target price is still our current guesstimate for a complete, autonomous, real-time navigational solution (you'll either need to add an HMI device, or use an HMI you already have). We're also working on finalizing the 3D printed case/packaging for the system, and we're also working up the new Bluetooth module layout for simultaneous release with the system to support NMEA/$GGA streaming to your favorite Android app.
 
Thanks for the update Jim. Probably safe to say since I don't know what a HMI is, I probably don't have one.
 
hmi (Human Machine Interface). I will have to check for an NMEA for IOS.
 
Yes, the MissileWorks will function as the HMI.

Ben
 
Good to hear on the RTx.

Wish I could've jumped on the sale... I decided that I had to save money, but later in the day decided I wanted to jump on it... But next thing I know, I'm admiring the insides of my eyelids and woke up about fifteen minutes after 9pm CST... and cursed myself, not knowing that the sale had been extended. Oh well. Would've been nice to have a "layaway" option, if you will.. Whoops.

Can't wait.

Mike
 
I also don't have a grasp of the terminology, 'HMI'. So, working off Jim's last post, "The $279 target price is still our current guesstimate for a complete, autonomous, real-time navigational solution (you'll either need to add an HMI device, or use an HMI you already have)", I'm at a loss for what to expect for my total cost. I see the word 'complete', but also 'add an HMI device'....
 
An HMI device is nothing more than a smart phone, tablet, laptop, hand held GPS or some other device you might use to map your rocket during flight OR used to guide you to rocket once it has landed.
 
timbucktoo said:
An HMI device is nothing more than a smart phone, tablet, laptop, hand held GPS or some other device you might use to map your rocket during flight OR used to guide you to rocket once it has landed.
Click to expand...

Thank you. From what I have read on this forum regarding the RTx, it sounded as if the system would include the HMI piece. From Jim's last post, maybe not...
 
I am not sure about that. I saw the hand held version Jim Hendricksen had at Midwest Power, and that appeared to be a complete package.
 
markkoelsch said:
I am not sure about that. I saw the hand held version Jim Hendricksen had at Midwest Power, and that appeared to be a complete package.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the one CJ was demo'ing included a base 3D case, a base RRC3 and an LCD for reporting via the RRC3. This would be in addition to what Jim describes in his pricing post, i.e., "end-to-end systems will start at $279.95."
 
dixontj93060 said:
My understanding is that the one CJ was demo'ing included a base 3D case, a base RRC3 and an LCD for reporting via the RRC3. This would be in addition to what Jim describes in his pricing post, i.e., "end-to-end systems will start at $279.95."
Click to expand...

iirc the LCD is one of the HMI's Jim is referring too.
 
The LCD is used with the base which is not an RRC3. When paired with the base you get real time telemetry. After the rocket has landed you can use it like a hand held and walk to the rocket or enter the last coordinates into another device. If you already have the LCD then you are good to go to pair with the base.

I'm not sure if the LCD is going to be included in the complete package or not.

As Jim indicated in previous post, Mark and I will be flying the alpha version and perhaps a beta version at Battle Park this weekend. The weather looks great for the launch. Come by and see us.

Ben
 
If folks have never GPS tracked you'll be shocked at the peace of mind it provides. As one gets close to the last known position, a new position will be received most likely the final resting place location. A 900Mhz Yagi lends itself for use with ground tracking because in spite of the narrow beam width, the rocket is stationary. It's not recommended to use a Yagi on this band during flight because the aim might be very critical and position packets could be missed from the rapidly moving target.
Once on the ground though it's easy enough to point one at the projected direction for a final fix. If one doesn't want to bother with it a duck antenna will eventually get you there. You'll just need to be a little bit closer. Kurt
 
I am really looking forward to all of the upcoming TRF threads on installation and use of the RTx. This will be a lot of fun.
 
dixontj93060 said:
My understanding is that the one CJ was demo'ing included a base 3D case, a base RRC3 and an LCD for reporting via the RRC3. This would be in addition to what Jim describes in his pricing post, i.e., "end-to-end systems will start at $279.95."
Click to expand...

The retail price includes EVERYTHING needed for "autonomous" GPS flying. [OH hell no..I'm even beginning to sound like the "other" JIM] The Case containing base unit is NOT included in price.

Rephrase: Price includes everything needed to fly with a complete GPS system, meaning both the rocket unit AND base have GPS in them.
What this means: After rocket has landed and you have location of it. [co-ordinates latitude & longitude] you now have a CHOICE.

Choice 1.
You can find your rocket by using the GPS in the base.
On left of LCD screen will be heading and distance to rocket. On right of screen will show your position & heading via the GPS inside base. This will include ETA [estimated time of arrival] depending on how fast you walk or drive. Nothing else is needed to find your rocket.

This is perfect for guys like me. "GPS for Dummies".
I have an old caveman style flip phone. No texting, no voicemail.
What the hell is bluetooth?
And no way do I know how to "Googlize" maps on phones etc.

Basically if you have ever used a RF tracker.....Comm-Spec...Marshall etc. after I finish the "GPS for Dummies" quick-start guide. Read a few notes and you can go use the darn thing.

Choice 2-3-4-5 blah blah blah......

Now this is for all you tech guys with fancy phones, blue tooth, Googly stuff Note-PADS ,LAP-TOPS etc.

You can put location in your fancy stuff via blue tooth [that's extra cost] or by hand and look at that map & go find the rocket by normal "plug & play" GPS requirements. This gets way above my "caveman" pay-grade, so MR Amos will have to explain all that.

All I care about is putting one unit in the rocket & holding the other unit in my hand.
The after flight go find the darn thing.

This it will do. "GPS for Dummies" that's me!

Now I can answer some other things for you.

Basic unit will be:
GPS unit for rocket will come with wire radio antenna or threaded thingie for duck antenna. YOU specify when ordering.

Base will be same as above with threaded thingie for duck......
WOW both units are the same...SHAZAMMM........
There is a 3 position dip switch on both. The on-off position combinations determine whether unit is a "send"[rocket] or receive [base] or add the altimeter data to the stream of information going to ground.
So it does 3 choices.....3 switches.....done. Simple
very simple, just like you set altitude choices on altimeter.

Base also comes with separate on/off switch and the LCD. 280.00 is target from what I'm reading?
 
That's enough for one post, now more stuff:

above tells what comes standard. just to re-iterate......GPS unit for rocket. GPS unit [same for base] don't ask read above how it works!

LCD screen and some on/off stuff for mounting in a case [case does NOT come with it.] 280.00 ?


If you have a LCD deduct cost. 35.00? so 280.00-35.00 =245.00 for a complete GPS system.

I don't know cost of the accessories, I just know they are coming.

You can order WITHOUT GPS in base, if your a "techie" and have all the fancy phones,hand held GPS already etc That will lower price even more!

Comes with 1/4 watt output radio, you will be able to get full 1 watt [eventually and at much higher cost, if your thinking about that then you already know cost factors lol]

Add bluetooth to base, stream data directly to your phone,laptop,etc

Add blue tooth to GPS in rocket and RRC3....say GPS is in NC and altimeter is in bay. Send altimeter data via B-Tooth to GPS and it will relay real time altimeter data along with GPS data back to ground. Via the radio ,NOT the bluetooth...even I know that..LOL
You can install GPS in av-bay and connect altimeter with cable to also send both data streams to ground.

When you do this [above] that's when you change dip switch settings telling both units to "look" for altimeter data and opens another screen on base to show altimeter data in real time. You can see apogee, main, etc

So I have just shown the tip of the ice-burg in what this thing is capable of in "GPS for Dummies" terminology.
I apologize for any technical mis-steps in terms or explanations, that's not my cup of tea.

I'm here to help the guy like me who has not interest in all the fancy stuff, but I will say this.

It will come just like the Missleworks altimeters, default with be very simple. Altimeter comes set for 500 ft main, mach immune. Buy it & fly it. Want to do all the fancy settings, air-startrs,clusters, timer etc. Get out the manual and read it.

The GPS will come with a very simple default setting & screen view.
Want to do all the fancy stuff? Fliers with previous GPS experience will "intuitively" know what to do by switching from default and choosing their own settings. Or reading the manual.

As we cavemen [like me] use it and learn more and more, the option to add on features & become fancy is just a "click" away on the screen! [just like the altimeters] :smile::smile:
 
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Just thought of something else kinda important. I have been asked this at launches.

Q. How many frequencies can I have?
A. over 65,000 [if memory serves correct] it's some ginormous number in any case.

Q.Will there be a problem with someone else on same frequency?
A. No. Missleworks will keep records of who's getting what, and they come in matched set.
You will also be able to use more rocket units with the base as your frequency is on record.If you lose it, destroy it, dog eats it etc. you can get another programmed to your base.
I don't know how all this will work, I just know it does.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the update Jim. Now I have a non-techie question. Which antenna is recommended, wire or duck? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Thanks!
 
Great info CJ. I love the caveman stuff. I too have a flip phone. My wife keeps telling me to upgrade. I said "Ugh Ugh Ugh?" (that's caveman for "what for?")
 
4kids49 said:
Great info CJ. I love the caveman stuff. I too have a flip phone. My wife keeps telling me to upgrade. I said "Ugh Ugh Ugh?" (that's caveman for "what for?")
Click to expand...

How about this caveman...CJ style:D. You know I think that gives me an idea for a Loc Minnie Mag build.

CaptainCaveman.jpg
 
blackjack2564 said:
Just thought of something else kinda important. I have been asked this at launches.

Q. How many frequencies can I have?
A. over 65,000 [if memory serves correct] it's some ginormous number in any case.

Q.Will there be a problem with someone else on same frequency?
A. No. Missleworks will keep records of who's getting what, and they come in matched set.
You will also be able to use more rocket units with the base as your frequency is on record.If you lose it, destroy it, dog eats it etc. you can get another programmed to your base.
I don't know how all this will work, I just know it does.
Click to expand...

Jim, not so sure about the caveman deal. Not saying you are the tech master, but a caveman I think not.

All kidding aside, thanks for the clarification. I like the idea of being able to put the GPS in the nosecone and rrc3 in separate bay. Bluetooth is generally pretty low power and short range so unlikely to cause to many issues with other avionics or charges.
 
4kids49 said:
Great info CJ. I love the caveman stuff. I too have a flip phone. My wife keeps telling me to upgrade. I said "Ugh Ugh Ugh?" (that's caveman for "what for?")
Click to expand...

Ugh Ugh ! Cave man for uhh huh!

rharshberger said:
How about this caveman...CJ style:D. You know I think that gives me an idea for a Loc Minnie Mag build.
Click to expand...

That reminds me, I have an old school cardboard rocket with a transition [3in to 54mm[ av-bay to finish. Better dig it out and finish over winter.

Crazyrocket said:
Thanks for the update Jim. Now I have a non-techie question. Which antenna is recommended, wire or duck? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Thanks!
Click to expand...

There is no simple answer to this, it will depend on your knowledge of using GPS, antennas & type and size of av-bay.
Whether your bay has 1 tie rod, 2,3 or even four.
How much metal is in bay.....Metal BP's [which are becoming more common] or G-10 BP's The more metal in bay....more complex and less output/range the antenna will have.

Look at it like this:
Option 1: use simple wire antenna, shown below. I actually use this in tiny 6in. bay by folding it back over the GPS unit or around end of sled.
If using GPS as stand alone, like just putting it in NC, you can straighten wire out and stick it forward of GPS up into tip of one.
See pics showing wire antenna next to base with threaded jack for duck antenna. You can see wire in pic next to base showing wire extended straight out vs unit on sled, with wire [ white antenna] bent back over top of unit. It worked just fine this way.

DSCN5324.jpg DSCN5232.jpg.

You will definitely want the threaded jack for base unit as a duck has more gain/reach & room requirements are nil for base unit.


Option 2. threaded jack for duck antenna.
If you have a large av-bay with room to use a duck, which will be straight out from radio/Rtx send unit , you will get better range. You can also use a small extension like this for mounting a duck on exterior of bulk-plate. Screw one end on radio and mount other through the BP & attach duck antenna on outside of bay.

73333.jpg

So you see the are many options available depending on how you plan to use & how much room you have.
Finally it also depends on how high you plan on flying the unit. If flights will generally stay under say.... 30,000ft the wire will do just fine. Should you desire to max out your flying with high altitude projects...then the duck type with higher gain/output would be desirable.

For me & my every day sport type flying, the simple wire will do. I think that would be fine for the bulk of fliers. Really, in the over-all scheme of things, how high do most of us fly on a regular basis.
If I decide to do a 40,000 ft attempt[or higher] I would get another unit with higher output [greater range] radio & antenna specifically for that.

Different size/types of ducks are available with higher gain, depending on length & design. That's a whole 'nother topic & outside the simple "caveman" vs "techie discussion.
I don't know if anyone has actually tested different bays, with different amounts of metal, with same antenna to see what effect the various metal rods, BP's etc. have on range. I plan on doing so in near future to find out. I'm going out to the beach, which is 7 miles long, with several bays,having various setups....Metal BP's.....1 vs 2 metal tie rods...etc and actually seeing the difference in range, with the same unit/antenna.
I will put units on top of sand dunes, [20-30 ft high] and walk till signal drops. This should give me a pretty good idea.
Hope this helps.:wink:
 
Thanks Jim! That was a helpful tutorial on the antennas. I will probably just stick with the wire antenna.
 

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