LUNAR Snow Ranch March Launch 3/7

[SCrocketfan]

(Launch report)
Great day!

Sounds like a great launch!

I think I might know what caused the wobble on the first flight and coupler problems. The AT single use motors have a slot-burning propellent configuration that leads to a LOT of initial thrust and a taper off leading to low average thrust. By comparison, the core-burning CTI loads have a lower peak thrust that doesn't taper off. This means the initial thrust of the G68 is surprisingly quite a bit lower than the G40 or G77.

Do you know if it was less wobbly on the G131? Increasing the average thrust should fix any wobble as the G-Force is actually really stable with just about any grain configuration (I flew a 4G motor in a 6G case in mine at October skies and it flew great). What's the 4G motor you plan to fly it on?

I think the coupler problems were due to the amount of BP in the CTI ejection charges. The AT single use have .7 grams of BP and CTI has 1.3 grams. What size chute protector are you using? Mine has a 12X12 square and seems to work fine.

Hope you can get it flying on an H soon!

 

[robbdm]

One other item of note, there were a lot of rocketeers in attendance at this launch, but the lines at the RSO table were noticeably shorter. I didn't get the full story, but there was apparently a whole extra bank of HPR pads that we don't usually have. That really sped things up a lot!

LUNAR for this launch deployed all 36 pads, this included a new bank of HP pads (#30-36 - right side). So the club could use left side HP pads for HP/MP, helped decrease wait for pad assignments...

I also RSO'd in the afternoon... the guy with red "Remove Before Flight" T-shirt.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

RC Dude, thanks for posting pics of the G-Force and Leviathan. It was great to meet you and your family and friends. Your cousin was a launching machine, and it sounds like he has the magic touch without a single misfire. if you make a tradition of bringing smoked tritip to the launches, I will make a tradition of eating some. Thanks again!

To the rest of the TRF community, RC Dude's rocket hangers are cool. I'd say 20 - 25 bucks is a really good deal. I was there when the guy purchased the set RC Dude had hanging in the EZ Up, and he seemed very excited to be getting them.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Sounds like a great launch!

I think I might know what caused the wobble on the first flight and coupler problems. The AT single use motors have a slot-burning propellent configuration that leads to a LOT of initial thrust and a taper off leading to low average thrust. By comparison, the core-burning CTI loads have a lower peak thrust that doesn't taper off. This means the initial thrust of the G68 is surprisingly quite a bit lower than the G40 or G77.

Do you know if it was less wobbly on the G131? Increasing the average thrust should fix any wobble as the G-Force is actually really stable with just about any grain configuration (I flew a 4G motor in a 6G case in mine at October skies and it flew great). What's the 4G motor you plan to fly it on?

I think the coupler problems were due to the amount of BP in the CTI ejection charges. The AT single use have .7 grams of BP and CTI has 1.3 grams. What size chute protector are you using? Mine has a 12X12 square and seems to work fine.

Hope you can get it flying on an H soon!

Thanks, SC. I think the wobble was probably just a fluke of the conditions, since the rocket has flown so well in the past. Maybe it was due to the low initial thrust of the G68, like you said. That motor does have a kind of odd thrust curve, now that I look at it. The G131 was much straighter. I think I will still balance the rocket and find the measured CG. Since this was a known reliable kit, and I didn't modify it much, I didn't bother balancing it before, and I have been running sims with just a mass override, not a CG override. But I think I will measure it now for peace of mind.

The motor I had brought with me to the launch was a 4-Grain H151 Red. Sims put it at around 1,600 feet. I would have liked to have flown it, but I just had a bit too much trepidation to risk such a new rocket. I think I've got a few other 4 grains and some 5 and 6 grains a well from the Wildman BS sale. Most of the larger ones I had bought for the pod rocket, but might try some in the G-Force instead. I'd really like to try some of the longer burning motors, but I don't have any at the moment.

I agree the coupler issue is probably related to the extra BP. I'm just going to make sure I sand the inside of the lower BT smooth and clean and try to make it so it can be wiped down easily. I don't want to sand the coupler side too much and raise too many fuzzies.

 

[SCrocketfan]

Thanks, SC. I think the wobble was probably just a fluke of the conditions, since the rocket has flown so well in the past. Maybe it was due to the low initial thrust of the G68, like you said. That motor does have a kind of odd thrust curve, now that I look at it. The G131 was much straighter. I think I will still balance the rocket and find the measured CG. Since this was a known reliable kit, and I didn't modify it much, I didn't bother balancing it before, and I have been running sims with just a mass override, not a CG override. But I think I will measure it now for peace of mind.

The motor I had brought with me to the launch was a 4-Grain H151 Red. Sims put it at around 1,600 feet. I would have liked to have flown it, but I just had a bit too much trepidation to risk such a new rocket. I think I've got a few other 4 grains and some 5 and 6 grains a well from the Wildman BS sale. Most of the larger ones I had bought for the pod rocket, but might try some in the G-Force instead. I'd really like to try some of the longer burning motors, but I don't have any at the moment.

I agree the coupler issue is probably related to the extra BP. I'm just going to make sure I sand the inside of the lower BT smooth and clean and try to make it so it can be wiped down easily. I don't want to sand the coupler side too much and raise too many fuzzies.

Sounds like a great plan. The H151 is quite similar to the H170 Blue Streak I flew at October Skies and should fly great. I'm thinking I might bring mine to the April launch, would you like to try a drag race on H151s or another motor like the H135 white or H255 white thunder if you have those?

 

[o1d_dude]

Here are a couple photos selected from those taken by Captain Low & Mostly Slow and Olga unbeknownst to me. Thought they might be of interest to those in the pictures and the final one is an illustration of my perfect burrito wrap FAIL.

View attachment 257437

Qquake2k, the_dude, and Thirsty Barbarian with his G-Force.

View attachment 257436

o1d_dude and watermelonman with a freshly built Wildman Punisher. Please ignore the reference to SCrocket associated with the photo - I cannot rename the uploaded image.


View attachment 257435

I had the perfect burrito wrap on my chute and sorta just forgot to snap it into the quick link...

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

LUNAR for this launch deployed all 36 pads, this included a new bank of HP pads (#30-36 - right side). So the club could use left side HP pads for HP/MP, helped decrease wait for pad assignments...

I also RSO'd in the afternoon... the guy with red "Remove Before Flight" T-shirt.

Those six extra pads really made a difference. That was great.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Sounds like a great plan. The H151 is quite similar to the H170 Blue Streak I flew at October Skies and should fly great. I'm thinking I might bring mine to the April launch, would you like to try a drag race on H151s or another motor like the H135 white or H255 white thunder if you have those?

I'm always interested in a drag race, and it would be great to have one with matched rockets and similar motors for once! I have the H151 I didn't use, and I will see what else I have got too, but I'm sure we can come up with the same or similar motors. That sounds like fun! Maybe we can even put the word out and get some other G-Force fliers in on it.

 

[SCrocketfan]

I'm always interested in a drag race, and it would be great to have one with matched rockets and similar motors for once! I have the H151 I didn't use, and I will see what else I have got too, but I'm sure we can come up with the same or similar motors. That sounds like fun! Maybe we can even put the word out and get some other G-Force fliers in on it.

Sounds great. I think you mentioned you had a bunch of 4G motors, I'm fine flying just about any motor in mine and if you let me know what motors you have I'll try to get the same motor from BAR. I'm probably going to fly my StratologgerCF altimeter in mine (as a test for a 4" Frenzy I'm building for Dairy Aire). H151s would certainly be cool, H255s would be really fun too with very fast liftoffs.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Sounds great. I think you mentioned you had a bunch of 4G motors, I'm fine flying just about any motor in mine and if you let me know what motors you have I'll try to get the same motor from BAR. I'm probably going to fly my StratologgerCF altimeter in mine (as a test for a 4" Frenzy I'm building for Dairy Aire). H151s would certainly be cool, H255s would be really fun too with very fast liftoffs.

Looks like in addition to the H151, I also have H123, H135 and H175.

It also looks like I skipped 5 grain motors, and my next up are all 6 grain! :y:

I'd be up for any of the 4 grain H's in a G-Force drag race. That would be fun! I have an Altimeter2 I can fly. I've been meaning to make more use of that, so I'm planning to bring it to the next launch anyway.

 

[SCrocketfan]

Looks like in addition to the H151, I also have H123, H135 and H175.

It also looks like I skipped 5 grain motors, and my next up are all 6 grain! :y:

I'd be up for any of the 4 grain H's in a G-Force drag race. That would be fun! I have an Altimeter2 I can fly. I've been meaning to make more use of that, so I'm planning to bring it to the next launch anyway.

How about the H135 white? It'll be cool to compare altimeter data, yours will probably go a bit higher because I'm flying an altimeter sled in mine.

 

[o1d_dude]

Also, as we were packing up at the end, a gentleman walking by noticed my rocket holder I made that hangs from a pop-up tent. I ended up telling him that for $25 it was his, and he accepted the offer. So now I may make some to sell at the launches, if anybody wants to buy one. It has two long straps that hold five rockets, and one shorter one that holds three. The shorter one goes in between the other two to support shorter rockets. If anybody wants one, send me a message and I will bring it to the next launch. The price is $20 for just the two longer ones, or $25 for all three. Rest assured that your money will be wisely invested into Bay Area Rocketry :grin:
Here is a photo of it:
View attachment 257431

And you can see it hanging from my pop-up in this photo:
View attachment 257432


Cheers,
Kyle Rodrigues

Guess I should have taken you up on your offer to sell it to me for $20 but as I said I don't use an EZ-Up anymore...just a 7' beach umbrella.

The rest of the TRF contingent (SacEsq, Qquake2K, and myself) were set up about three or four spaces down from your family. Not sure where Thirsty or Watermelonman were camped but they put in an appearance at Captain Low & Mostly Slow's Rocket Emporium and Cafe. Blue pickup truck and pop-up tent. You should come by and say hello to the members.

I was in the BAR trailer when you and your family were shopping at the end of the day but didn't figure out who you were until later.

Back to the rocket slings...Shadow Aero used to/perhaps still does sell them ( https://www.shadowaero.com/page2/page2.html ) and according to the site, they hold a patent on the design which they market under the trade name "WingSling". I am not a lawyer (IANAL) but you might not want to make a business out of selling these. Just saying.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

How about the H135 white? It'll be cool to compare altimeter data, yours will probably go a bit higher because I'm flying an altimeter sled in mine.

H135 sounds good!

 

[rc dude]

Guess I should have taken you up on your offer to sell it to me for $20 but as I said I don't use an EZ-Up anymore...just a 7' beach umbrella.

The rest of the TRF contingent (SacEsq, Qquake2K, and myself) were set up about three or four spaces down from your family. Not sure where Thirsty or Watermelonman were camped but they put in an appearance at Captain Low & Mostly Slow's Rocket Emporium and Cafe. Blue pickup truck and pop-up tent. You should come by and say hello to the members.

I was in the BAR trailer when you and your family were shopping at the end of the day but didn't figure out who you were until later.

Back to the rocket slings...Shadow Aero used to/perhaps still does sell them ( https://www.shadowaero.com/page2/page2.html ) and according to the site, they hold a patent on the design which they market under the trade name "WingSling". I am not a lawyer (IANAL) but you might not want to make a business out of selling these. Just saying.

Well it looks like the gentleman that bought it will have the only one like it. I guess I will have to find another way to fund my rockets.

I'll be sure to stop by and say hi next time.

 

[woferry]

LUNAR for this launch deployed all 36 pads, this included a new bank of HP pads (#30-36 - right side). So the club could use left side HP pads for HP/MP, helped decrease wait for pad assignments...

I also RSO'd in the afternoon... the guy with red "Remove Before Flight" T-shirt.

The extra pads were fantastic, it really helped with the backlog on such a beautiful day and large crowd. I convinced a work acquaintance to come (and I may have created a BAR, he said he wants to build a rocket now having not flown since childhood), who brought two of his daughters and 3 of his employees who were visiting from the Ukraine, he said everyone had a great time watching all the rockets fly. And I joined LUNAR this launch.

I managed to get 4 HPR flights in (a daily record for me), 3 on my Bumbl-B (I287SS, I255RL and I161W) and one on my dd.xls (I297SK), all successful recoveries. I had mixed success with my electronics, mostly due to pilot error so I finally made a pre-launch checklist to ensure I don't leave any steps out. But I added a photo album to my launches page as well as videos on my YouTube page, linked from my signature below. I'm particularly amused by the suspenseful build-up of the I255RL firing, including the cork popping sound it made just before going off (not sure if that was the yellow cap coming off or what). It was also great that the winds were so light, with 4 single-deploy flights from 2400-4250', the farthest my rockets went from the pad was a bit under 1000', and that one was towards the parking area, two of my flights looked like they had a chance of landing in my pickup bed. And my 4th flight (right before the waiver closed) went to 2409' but distance-wise didn't even travel as far as the mid-power pads, ~125' from launch to landing. Can't complain about that! Still need to get DD working for my rockets for those times when the conditions aren't so perfect however.

I think I got a half-decent shot of your Wild Ride Two Stage launch/staging, David, it's the 13th item in the album. The full-quality video is available from More->Download video, the flash videos Google+ posts are pretty poor (and this time it seems to have cut the last second or so off most of the flash clips). Unfortunately I spent enough time working on my rockets that I didn't end up taking as many shots of other people's launches as I'd like to, but I did get a few (again mostly video as I continue to work on my skills with the ultrazoom camera).

This was the first launch where I ran into conflicts with my Eggfinder (919MHz), I really do wish there was some way of knowing what frequencies people were using ahead of time so that one could plan accordingly (at least for the units that can be re-programmed to a different frequency). The conflict actually came up while one of my rockets was flying, so I wound up with a GPS fix on somebody else's rocket instead of mine, but fortunately had visual on mine so I wasn't dependent on the GPS to find it. Had it been breezier (or TCC's field) I could have easily lost my rocket as a result.

 

[o1d_dude]

I made the comment on the field that LUNAR Snow Ranch launches were reaching the point where a frequency board up at the range head should be implemented.

Saw your Bumbl-B on the pad at least once. The contrast makes it highly visible.

And yes, having an extra bank of High Power pads made all the difference. The waiting in line for check-in and pad assignment was trivial. In the past I've waited in line for over an hour for a high power pad.

 

[woferry]

I made the comment on the field that LUNAR Snow Ranch launches were reaching the point where a frequency board up at the range head should be implemented.

That would be very nice.

Saw your Bumbl-B on the pad at least once. The contrast makes it highly visible.

Heh. I guess I was making up for my first rocket, which was a lovely (almost) sky blue. But it was a combination of things. I failed to totally hide the grooves on my first GLR Magna-frame rocket, so knowing my second kit would also be Magna-frame I figured I'd exploit the spiral instead of trying to hide it. Plus after the all-blue rocket and it's failed-deployment second launch (where it disappeared at apogee and crash-landed not too far from my RV, nobody saw it so there wasn't any heads-up, thankfully it didn't hit anything but the playa), I figured something more visible, and perhaps even caution-striped seemed more in order. The "Bumbl-B" name was as much a combination of it being my second rocket (the "B"), the bumbled second-launch of my first rocket, and the black & yellow color scheme. I had both the name and color scheme decided upon before the kit even arrived. Now it's technically "Bumbl-B mk III", since the first two flights both had unsuccessful deployments resulting in shortening of the airframe. It seems to be very happy in its third incarnation however, with 10 successful flights on various I motors so far.

Speaking of happy, it seems my pickup loves Snow Ranch also. My two trips to the ranch have been the best mileage I've ever gotten on my almost-11-year-old truck, even with replacement tires bought 2 years ago. Go figure.

Oh, and I do have a video clip from the on-board camera of a bee at Snow Ranch "inspecting" my rocket just before the pads surrounding me drag-raced and scared it away, I thought that was amusing (that was from the December launch).

 

[robbdm]

I think I got a half-decent shot of your Wild Ride Two Stage launch/staging, David, it's the 13th item in the album.

Thanks great video, I normally forget to video and just watch.

 

[cherokeej]

Tell ya what guys... I think next launch we're gonna have a frequency board up at the range head. If the club doesn't have a spare, I'll pick up a whiteboard at Wally's and bring it out. We'll make a few announcements and try to get folks to "sign up" and share the bands.

With more and more folks using GPS and RDF for tracking, and all the quad-copters that keep showing up, it wouldn't hurt.

 

[robbdm]

Tell ya what guys... I think next launch we're gonna have a frequency board up at the range head. If the club doesn't have a spare, I'll pick up a whiteboard at Wally's and bring it out. We'll make a few announcements and try to get folks to "sign up" and share the bands.

With more and more folks using GPS and RDF for tracking, and all the quad-copters that keep showing up, it wouldn't hurt.

Great idea, should be SOP at all launches

 

[qquake2k]

I'm probably being dense, but what exactly is a "frequency board"?

 

[robbdm]

I'm probably being dense, but what exactly is a "frequency board"?

How many times you'd like to launch! Just kidding

It is to post frequency of your tracker, etc to avoid two flyers using same freq and interfering with each other. I have two eggfinders on different freqs so I could switch if one freq in use.

 

[qquake2k]

How many times you'd like to launch! Just kidding

It is to post frequency of your tracker, etc to avoid two flyers using same freq and interfering with each other. I have two eggfinders on different freqs so I could switch if one freq in use.

Ah, that makes sense.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I'm probably being dense, but what exactly is a "frequency board"?

It's posted next to the porta potty, and every time you use it, you put a checkmark next to your name.

 

[cherokeej]

It's posted next to the porta potty, and every time you use it, you put a checkmark next to your name.

Dang. Mercy doesn't live here any more. She moved.

David's right. Should be SOP at every launch. It's getting to the point that everyone is running some kind of radio. Almost as many Yagi's on a flight line as E-Z ups.

We'll figure out how to set up the board. Name, device, frequency, time of day... It's going to be up to the flyers to manage it. The LCO will announce its presence, but it's up to the users to make it work.

For a whiteboard and a marker, it's worth a shot.

 

[cherokeej]

Well guys, I tried.

Met some serious resistance, tho. Not worth the fight for me. Cuz I use a band that no one else uses. There's no one on my frequency.

You guys are on your own WRT a frequency board.

If there's a whiteboard there, use it, and make those that thought it was a bad idea as wrong as two left shoes.