Klima ME-163

[Andrew_ASC]

Well I got my first rocket boosted glider R/C kit in the mail today. Expect a slow build with a lot of questions. Hottest R/C plane I flew was a Alphajet 64mm EDF. Completely new to rocket boosted gliders and this whole vertical launch off rail gig.

What I plan on doing is ordering some E-6RC glider motors, an Aerotech casing, maybe a used Ar400 receiver from Dyna rocketry... Want a 24mm CF body tube for motor mount. It came with an 18mm aluminum extrusion. It’s going to need some more nose weight than stock as they want 18mm motors which I looked into a Aerotech D2.3T-P but not enough thrust to launch vertical. Thinking about 1010 rail buttons.

What am more unsure of is what kinda LiPo batteries, Jst connections or otherwise, quality servos, charger accessories, or other types (the less soldering the better), better quality radio receiver and transmitter capable of elevon mixing etc with possibly a flap switch that I could easily put a boost and glide trim setting on like how I read about here often. Most of my R/C experience was with cheaper ready to fly foam kits. Anyways appreciate the advice and input you all have to offer. And lastly I’m guessing I’ll have to balance the CG more or less like an aircraft usually what 1/3 of from the leading edge of wing cord. More of an impulse and curiousity buy. Lol.

Only other PNP model I had was a micro L-39. But the batteries needed etc was well documented. I guess I should dive into the user manual on this.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Alright just bought two AR400 receivers, E6RC x 6 reloads, and AT casing from dynasoar rocketry.

 

[Leo]

Nice. Did you order the decal set as well?

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Not yet.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Looking at DX8 tx and some hs65hb servos. Might do this project after L2.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Ordered 24mm CF airframe tubing from black cat rocketry for use as motor mount. Ordered two HS65HB servos.

 

[burkefj]

Looks like you are on the right track. If you are only using two servos and a spektrum rx you can use a single 1s lipo direct to the rx and it will run those servos fine. How much was the komet kit?

BTW, your cg shift will be more given the heavier motor, so you might find your pitch response on glide a bit sluggish.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Komet was $112 shipped from Sierra Fox Hobbies. I think the shipping from Europe was like half of the kit price. Is there any special pigtail connectors to go from an AR400 RX to say a 3.7v 400 mAh sparkfun battery common in like Altus metrum rocketry electronics? Sorry I just got off work.

 

[burkefj]

I don't think so, I don't like the sparkfun batteries, they seem cheap, I prefer the 1s flight batteries for rc planes like the eflite one I have linked in my general instructions that have a red jst connector since that is what I use in my planes anyway for up to 3s and my charger has those connectors, I include an adapter in my kits for this purpose.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

What kind of charger and adapter do you prefer? I guess I could dump the sparkfun batteries for eflite at your recommendation. Sorry I’m just trying to a get a specific setup that could work.

 

[burkefj]

I have the adapters, they are like a dollar plus shipping, might go into an envelope without issue, not sure. My site had a link for a simple charger that plugs into usb, I have a fancier 4 input Hitec charger because I use it all the time but it is overkill for this.

 

[burkefj]

I would also say you can get by with a normal 24mm cardboard tube, the motors don't get that hot, I run them against foam all the time without issue, I would't spend the extra on carbon fiber tubes.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Okay I found this on your site and will go with these batteries for now.

https://dynasoarrocketry.com/?page_id=397


I may have to pm you for a battery adapter. Many thanks.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Ordered DSMX8 Tx. Ordered 2 x 3.7V 500 mah lipos. Ordered charger.

 

[burkefj]

If you want to get a bunch of the adapters, this is the sort of thing to look for, sometimes they can come without the little bevels on the rx plug so you have to file those in yourself to fit into the spektrum slots in the AR-400's...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/30-x-RX-Pl...e-Connector-/283605382391?hash=item420832b4f7

 

[Andrew_ASC]

DX8, Lipos, charger, and Hitec servos arrived. In other news the CF tube just shipped out from England. Might be waiting on the tube for quite a bit. Usually it takes a few weeks in customs from past experience. I find it very hard to source 24mm CF tubes in the USA. I’ll probably end up using the excess tubing for rocketry uses.

Looks like the Klima servo slots aren’t quite big enough for the HS65HB servos so some slight trimming of foam to fit these will be required. I’ll for sure need pigtails or servo extension cables for the servos as the wing span and servo slot position is just out of reach to main airframe body for the included servo leads.

The rocket motors, AT casing, and receivers should be here later this week sometime. The Klima manual states the CG is 80mm aft of the leading edge of the wing root of model. Still need to find some decent foam safe CA glue for R/C planes.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Sanded out the internal guts of aft fuselage. The 24mm CF tube came from UK but sadly I got a coupler tube instead of an airframe tube. Whatever I’ll use it for something. Idk what yet. Rofl.

 

[georgegassaway]

Do you know how to fly R/C? Rocket Boosts are not a good way to learn - costly and dangerous. If you do not know how, get a small trainer or at least use a good R/C simulator (or both).

 

[Andrew_ASC]

I’ve flown EDF R/C and full scale Cessnas. The only thing different to me will be the vertical launch sequence. But I understand conceptually I’ll need to nose over before reaching stall speed of the rocket glider. And in my opinion R/C I’d argue is way freaking twitchy compared to full scale. R\C helicopter I admit I can not fly well at all.

 

[burkefj]

Again,no need for cf tube, just get a tube from bms or elsewhere...

 

[aerostadt]

I am wondering how this project turned out. Apogee is now offering this kit on their website.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Model-Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-5-Model-Rocket-Kits/ME-163

 

[burkefj]

The test flight I saw at NSL didn't go well. The problem is this model is very small for an E6 long burn motor and the CG shift so it would be quite heavy if you balanced it for that in my opinion and you'd probably run out of pitch control on glide. The 18 mm long burn d 2.3's don't have enough power to boost this At NAR aporoved launch angles So you're stuck with a short-burn d13 or d24 and that boost is really fast for a wing like this that is pretty pitch sensitive when balanced a little bit aft so that you don't run out of pitch control for glide when it's nose heavy. It basically did a figure 9 into the ground under the really high thrust d24 motor.

Frank

I am wondering how this project turned out. Apogee is now offering this kit on their website.
URL unfurl="true"]https://www.apogeerockets.com/Model-Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-5-Model-Rocket-Kits/ME-163[/URL]

 

[tab28682]

It would be nice to get a modification to the NAR RG safety code to allow low impulse RCRGs motors like the D2.3 and the E6 to use a shallow launch ramp for models that are a bit heavy for their initial impluse. The safety risks are minimal. Videos of the Klima Me-163 being flown in Germany show that the shallow ramp launch of the model on a Klima D3 is easy and safe.

I recently worked on my long dormant Klima Me-163. As the safety code now stands it will likely be a model that is carried up on the back of a larger r/c electric model, released over 200 feet high and then air started on its D2.3.

However, I have been dabbling on a system that would mechanically catapult a low impulse RC RG into to air at a legal angle once the motor has positive ignition. Or, a test with a piston launcher might show that that would give enough boost off the pad to have a good boost at the legal launch angle.

 

[aerostadt]

However, I have been dabbling on a system that would mechanically catapult a low impulse RC RG into to air at a legal angle once the motor has positive ignition. Or, a test with a piston launcher might show that that would give enough boost off the pad to have a good boost at the legal launch angle.

The catapult is an interesting idea. The old Jetex models with low thrust sometimes used a catapult. Some catapults use just a simple rubber band. However, when I think about it I don't think I want to go to all this trouble.

 

[tab28682]

The catapult is an interesting idea. The old Jetex models with low thrust sometimes used a catapult. Some catapults use just a simple rubber band. However, when I think about it I don't think I want to go to all this trouble.

It would be a bit of a pain, but an interesting experiment. The piston might be easier.

If Aerotech put a slightly larger slot at the end of the fuel grain, it would likely be enough extra surface burn area to pop the Klima 163 off the pad at a legal angle........

 

[Brent]

Would be cool if it could be trimmed to fly without RC.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

I hope you have better luck with this than Senior Lieutenant Josef Pohs did.

 

[burkefj]

You would really need to redesign it with a pop pod up the middle and some elevon change for glide.....in my opinion, as you'd need a bigger larger thrust motor to boost it vertically which would require too much nose weight for trimmable glide without ejecting it.

Would be cool if it could be trimmed to fly without RC.

 

[Daddyisabar]

Hanna Reitsch can fly it!

Whitenessed an attempt to fly it at SCORE. The Top Men failed. Got a close up look today at the Apogee show room. A foamy horror show!

 

[burkefj]

This might be a model that's better suited to a small tractor motor up front with a battery and then do an air start of a long burn motor that way you've got the CG under control and you don't have to boost closer to vertical.