igniters recommendation

[Up_and_away]

I'm working on my L3, dual-deploy redundancy setup with Entacore Aim 3.0 and the RRC3 using 2 9V batteries for the setup. Are there igniters and/or vendors you recommend? I keep reading a lot of igniters require 12V to fire. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Jmhepworth]

What have you used on your other dual deploy rockets? The level 3 attempt really isn’t any different.

 

[cwbullet]

When you say igniters, do you mean dual deployment initiators or motor lighters?

 

[DragonRocketry]

Hummmm Level 3 attempt and does not have a clue on ignitors. Something does not add up.

 

[StreuB1]

Hummmm Level 3 attempt and does not have a clue on ignitors. Something does not add up.

Absolutely agree. There is something going on here with new members, 1 post, and first post is something bizarre.

 

[GalantVR41062]

It's in the correct section of the forum but the verbiage is off.

I buy ematches from my local motor vendor, I also buy motor initiators from my local motor vendor also.

Online source for ematches:
https://www.skylighter.com/cart
https://electricmatch.com/
Motor initiators:
https://wildmanrocketry.com/collections/wildman-brand-lighters
Many other options also, where did you get ematches (or similar) for you electronic ejection J K L motor flight? Also any motor that is plugged or above 2560Ns needs a deployment event.

 

[Up_and_away]

It's in the correct section of the forum but the verbiage is off.

I buy ematches from my local motor vendor, I also buy motor initiators from my local motor vendor also.

Online source for ematches:
https://www.skylighter.com/cart
https://electricmatch.com/
Motor initiators:
https://wildmanrocketry.com/collections/wildman-brand-lighters
Many other options also, where did you get ematches (or similar) for you electronic ejection J K L motor flight? Also any motor that is plugged or above 2560Ns needs a deployment event.

I got my L2 10+ years ago and getting back into rocketry. I had stuff come up that took me away from it and trying to get back into it and apparently went to the wrong place to ask questions. Someone recommended TRF but apparently all the "rocket experts" here is ridicule others so I'll just call vendors and get advice.

 

[Up_and_away]

When you say igniters, do you mean dual deployment initiators or motor lighters?

I meant dual deployment initiators, but I see the ridicule from members (not you but others) for asking a question. Apparently L3's must be PhDs in aerospace the way they talk. I'll go elsewhere to get advice, thanks though.

 

[Hobie1dog]

to the forum.

 

[tsmith1315]

I meant dual deployment initiators, but I see the ridicule from members (not you but others) for asking a question

If you hang around, you’ll see we get similar questions periodically by people who have never been to a launch.

Often it’s an overly optimistic youth dreaming big.

Sometimes it’s a student project where the absolute minimum is done for cert- like build a single rocket as a group and all certifying with it. It’s conceivable someone could be starting a L3 project having never built a rocket by themselves.

In these cases, it’s helpful to know the OP’s experience to offer guidance effectively.

It’s unusual for someone building a L3 to not have some DD experience, so that threw a red flag. I’ll admit that was my first thought, however your listing of the altimeters (& 9V batteries) gave a nod towards being a prior flyer and aren’t aware of what’s available nowadays.

https://electricmatch.com/

FWIW, I use a 2S lipo, ~7V and these with my altimeters:

https://csrocketry.com/recovery-supplies/ejection-supplies/firewire-electric-match.html

 

[cwbullet]

I meant dual deployment initiators, but I see the ridicule from members (not you but others) for asking a question. Apparently L3's must be PhDs in aerospace the way they talk. I'll go elsewhere to get advice, thanks though.

Welcome back to the forum.

I would used these:

https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/36/6/mjg-firewire-initiater

 

[Jmhepworth]

I tried not to be mean in my response. I still recall the answers to my first question on the forum. Most were snarky and rather mean-spirited. I just didn’t know enough to know what I didn’t know and that drew out the comments from people who wanted to make fun of me. Sorry if my response sounded like that. Because a requirement of level three is experience with electronics, when someone asks a question that seems to be missing an assumption, we sometimes get snarky. I really do try not to. In fact, I try (sometimes not too successfully) to always be kind.

Chuck’s answer is what I use. They are very reliable, although I still use two in each charge well on a 50lb rocket.

 

[Up_and_away]

These certainly help, I see some people asked for background. So electrical is NOT my background at all. I had people give advice in the past that were experienced fliers but it's been about 10 years they just said use these and go fly which I did and got certified. The research I keep seeing for a lot of igniters keeps saying 12V and the setup I have on my ebay is using 2 9V batteries so I'm nervous about using the wrong igniters and having a crash. I'm building jumbo darkstar from Wildman, the build is pretty much done it's just the wiring and electronics I'm nervous on. I'm flying a RRC3 and entacore aim 3 and not sure if only certain igniters work for those devices, etc. I tried reading the mA and the voltage and like I said electrical is NOT my background at all that's why I was hoping for some advice on what people have flown with their rockets preferably with RRC3 and Entacore Aim altimeters.

 

[Chuck Neff]

I'm working on my L3, dual-deploy redundancy setup with Entacore Aim 3.0 and the RRC3 using 2 9V batteries for the setup. Are there igniters and/or vendors you recommend? I keep reading a lot of igniters require 12V to fire. Any help would be appreciated.

Assuming you're working with either a TAP (Tripoli) or L3CC Member (NAR), I would recommend discussing this with them and seeing what they recommend.

Also, since dual-deployment with Level 2 rockets is required before attempting Level 3, I would also recommend that you get plenty of experience there before getting too far into your Level 3 plans.

Thanks,
Chuck Neff
NAR #74595 L3/L3CC
TRA #7915 L3

 

[Jmhepworth]

These certainly help, I see some people asked for background. So electrical is NOT my background at all. I had people give advice in the past that were experienced fliers but it's been about 10 years they just said use these and go fly which I did and got certified. The research I keep seeing for a lot of igniters keeps saying 12V and the setup I have on my ebay is using 2 9V batteries so I'm nervous about using the wrong igniters and having a crash. I'm building jumbo darkstar from Wildman, the build is pretty much done it's just the wiring and electronics I'm nervous on. I'm flying a RRC3 and entacore aim 3 and not sure if only certain igniters work for those devices, etc. I tried reading the mA and the voltage and like I said electrical is NOT my background at all that's why I was hoping for some advice on what people have flown with their rockets preferably with RRC3 and Entacore Aim altimeters.

I don’t know the entacore, but I use MJG electric matches with an RRC3. I generally us 2S LIPOs, but a 9 volt would work well also. I second the suggestion to work with your TAPs or the NAR L3CC. They will help you avoid mistakes.

 

[tsmith1315]

The research I keep seeing for a lot of igniters keeps saying 12V and the setup I have on my ebay is using 2 9V batteries so I'm nervous about using the wrong igniters and having a crash

Gotcha.

Igniters and ematches aren’t the same thing.

You want ematches for ejection.

 

[Titan II]

Also, since dual-deployment with Level 2 rockets is required before attempting Level 3, I would also recommend that you get plenty of experience there before getting too far into your Level 3 plans.

At least for Tripoli, that is not correct. You only have to fly one L2 rocket using an electronic device to deploy recovery. It can be single deploy. Dual is not required. An earlier section states "demonstrate proficiency in flying Level 2 rockets with electronic recovery." Regardless if it is one or more rockets, dual is not required.

Also, you do not have to do dual deploy for the L3 certification flight. You must have two seperate and independent devices, but you can do a single deploy only. For example, each device can deploy the main only. One is primary and one is secondary (backup).

5. Electronics:

• Successfully fly at least one rocket in the Level 2 range using an electronic device as the primary means of recovery system deployment before attempting Level 3 certification.
• Level 3 certification flights must include two completely separate electronic devices, each with independent power sources, wire harnesses, and ignition devices for recovery system deployment.

 

[Up_and_away]

Thank you for the advice. I have my L2 it's just been a decade, there's new technology and devices out there that weren't available a decade or more ago. I already have the L3 built it's just the electronics I had questions on. I don't understand the assumption "because someone asks a question on electronics they clearly aren't qualified to be an L2/L3." I have TAPs but my philosophy is to ask a variety of people and get a lot of opinions. If you ask 10 rocketeers something you'll get 11 different answers. I'm a former college professor in mathematics and have a degree in aerospace. Imagine if I had that view of my students..."Wow you're asking a derivative question and you're taking my partial differential equation class, go back to algebra I" That doesn't fly. I appreciate the advice but imagine if you asked me a math question and I questioned your intelligence on everything else related to math . You clearly know more about building/electronics than I do, hence why I'm asking but I assure none of you can hold a candle to me on aerodynamics, flight forces, physics/mathematics of rocketry. We all have our areas of expertise, no one knows it all nor should they. Nor should they be ridiculed for not knowing it all. Clearly I'm not going to change the opinion of long time fliers so I'll leave with this and just stick with my TAPs, being respectful to others goes a long way or you're going to turn away new fliers to the sport who can find hobbies elsewhere where people won't be disrespectful or insult their intelligence.

 

[Zeus-cat]

If you don't mind, where in Ohio are you? My club, Wright Stuff Rocketeers (Dayton area) has an L3 in our club. His brother is a former L3, plus one guy is working on his L3 rocket. We are a NAR club, but Tripoli is probably the way to go for your L3 in the Dayton/Springfield area. We have a Tripoli club that has their high-power field about 10 miles from ours.

 

[Titan II]

Why was this thread scrubbed?

 

[tsmith1315]

Gotcha.

Igniters and ematches aren’t the same thing.

I just re-read this and hope it wasn’t taken the wrong way.

“Gotcha” was meant as “Now I understand the source of your confusion”. I got it. Not as a celebration of strategic victory.

 

[OzHybrid]

At least for Tripoli, that is not correct. You only have to fly one L2 rocket using an electronic device to deploy recovery. It can be single deploy. Dual is not required. An earlier section states "demonstrate proficiency in flying Level 2 rockets with electronic recovery." Regardless if it is one or more rockets, dual is not required.

Also, you do not have to do dual deploy for the L3 certification flight. You must have two seperate and independent devices, but you can do a single deploy only. For example, each device can deploy the main only. One is primary and one is secondary (backup).

5. Electronics:

• Successfully fly at least one rocket in the Level 2 range using an electronic device as the primary means of recovery system deployment before attempting Level 3 certification.
• Level 3 certification flights must include two completely separate electronic devices, each with independent power sources, wire harnesses, and ignition devices for recovery system deployment.

When I did my L3 years ago, it said at least 1 electronic deployment flight. That changed and it DID say multiple dual deploy launches or something similar previously. Now that seems to have been changed back to close to the original wording.
There is no rule revision history ( there should be in my opinion ) and no one wants to have to completely reread all the rules every time they launch just in case something might have changed without anyone knowing that change has occurred. As a minimum, there should be a date of last revision on the document/ webpage and what those last revisions changed. @Steve Shannon

 

[DaHabes]

As for igniters, if you want to guarantee motor ignition, dip your preferred igniter in ProCast.

 

[tfish]

@Up_and_away
You have a back up altimeter, a back up battery and back up deployment charges!

why not use a back up igniter..to get things going?

You don't have to make your own..you can always find 'stuff' at a launch to "augment them..

While your at it..why not make it flexible too? (plastic soda straws will work)



Tony

 

[Up_and_away]

If you don't mind, where in Ohio are you? My club, Wright Stuff Rocketeers (Dayton area) has an L3 in our club. His brother is a former L3, plus one guy is working on his L3 rocket. We are a NAR club, but Tripoli is probably the way to go for your L3 in the Dayton/Springfield area. We have a Tripoli club that has their high-power field about 10 miles from ours.

I know Wright Stuff and TMO quite well, flown at both several times.