HTPB Question

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Samuel Haas

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Can anyone definitively tell me what additives, if any, are in R-45M HTPB that standard HTPB does not have? I am in the process of procuring new HTPB for my research project and have experimented with standard HTPB with poor results. I would like to understand why R-45M produces a satisfactory result that isn't replicated with a different species.

The "standard" HTPB for reference: https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/Hy...adiene_Resin_12_Gallon/p1577809_15683131.aspx
 
Look at viscosity and functionality. IMHO those are the two most important factors.

This may not be the right part of the forum for the discussion. Try to get access to the research portion if you can. But for a quick answer, it sounds like you are not compensating for the functionality - equivalent weight, and any other changes you need to make. Sorry, I don't know you, and this is the wrong forum, so that's about all the answer I'll give. The problem isn't the HTPB.

Gerald
 
Can anyone definitively tell me what additives, if any, are in R-45M HTPB that standard HTPB does not have? I am in the process of procuring new HTPB for my research project and have experimented with standard HTPB with poor results. I would like to understand why R-45M produces a satisfactory result that isn't replicated with a different species.

The "standard" HTPB for reference: https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/Hy...adiene_Resin_12_Gallon/p1577809_15683131.aspx
https://wydawnictwa.ipo.lukasiewicz.gov.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/HEM_0168_E.pdf

is probably the best explanation available.

TP
 
R45M has a higher molecular weight and functionality (OH sites) than R45HTLO. It also has an antioxidant included in the formulation, whereas R45HTLO does not unless it is specified at time of order (which I did when I purchased 4 drums).

R45M is no longer readily available. Most HTPB will be lower molecular weight, and slightly lower viscosity. However, some sources will not be high quality Total/Cray Valley R45HTLO; some will be imported; others may be surplus and not stored correctly to guarantee full activity. I've tested those scenarios and it's a waste of time and money. (For me, the RCS HTLO did not work as well as the direct purchase I made).

It's important to keep track of all of the hydroxyl values (or hydroxyl numbers) of the resin and all liquid additives which contain -OH sites (tepanol, crosslinkers, etc.). We typically use the unitless "equivalent weight" to calculate the correct amount of curative (-NCO sites) to bond the resin and additives (-OH sites). If the chemical source doesn't directly specify EW, you need to convert. Here are my short notes on how to do that. R45M has an EW of ~1370 and R45HTLO has an EW of ~1190. You must adjust for more curative when switching from R45M to R45HTLO.

Other factors can effect the quality of the binder. Moisture in any ingredient or in the environment while mixing will consume curative quickly. It's best to dry the solids and to vacuum dehydrate the liquids before adding the curative. The "cure index" may be adjusted to allow for moisture with a value slightly >1. On the other hand, an index somewhat <1 will produce softer, stretchier binder at the expense of reduce strength.

You can send me a PM if you need additional info on formulation which might not be allowed here in the open forum. To get access to the restricted Research section, you need to be NAR or TRA L2 certified and a US Person.
 
“(For me, the RCS HTLO did not work as well as the direct purchase I made)”

Not sure why that is, we use and sell the same domestic material you described.
 
“(For me, the RCS HTLO did not work as well as the direct purchase I made)”

Not sure why that is, we use and sell the same domestic material you described.
I'm not sure either. Many people are using your HTPB with good success. I sold the 2 gallons of RCS HTLO to someone and I haven't heard any complaints.
 
The motors we use typically are not fired at low or high temperatures, (-65, +165f), or stored for a long time. One major reason R-45M is used in military applications because it has a long track record of working.
There are many polymers that will work and are easier to obtain.
 
“(For me, the RCS HTLO did not work as well as the direct purchase I made)”

Not sure why that is, we use and sell the same domestic material you described.
“one man’s trash is another man’s treasure” as the saying goes. you have to do some gum stock tests and get your curative right, and keep your materials dry.
 
There are different types of httb; I bought some cheap off ebay, and it's good for making bushings, and that's about it. What you buy for rocket grains is not the same at all. Additives and curatives are critical, and often paradoxical; as I did my first mix, I was surprised the differences some of the additives made to the overall mix. 40 years of chemistry experience didn't keep me from blowing the curative calc on my first batch. :)
 
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