How do I estimate higher altitude winds?

[CrocketRocket]

How do I estimate higher altitude wind speed? I assume that above the tree line windspeed picks up a lot. So fights going over 1000 ft might start hitting higher wind speed causing my rocket to drift more after ejection. I have a small field and will be using streamers to mitigate this as much as possible. Eventually I'd like to achieve flights over 2,000 and 3,000ft.

Is there a way, through weather reports or aviation reports to find out this info? There is an airport about 4 miles away, so If they post this info it would be pretty relevant to my launch area.

New to rocketry, after a 30 year absence.

Thanks

 

[SkyFire]

Winds aloft forecast; https://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/Winds/Aloft.cgi

 

[blackjack2564]

my go to...first use setting to get from map view to satellite....the 3 bars at left top have everything u need in them.

Find your location..put a stick pin in it...shows winds at wherever u stop slider at right....from ground to 40,000 ft! and the pink arrows show direction across your field wind headed... play with it awhile to figure out how to use...tons of data.

https://www.windy.com/?34.108,-80.546,15,m:eBZadUT,a:zLFFF

 

[CrocketRocket]

That's fantastic!

Thank you BlackJack and SkyFire.

 

[CrocketRocket]

Winds aloft forecast; https://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/Winds/Aloft.cgi

SkyFire,

Your logo is so good. . . I may have to steal that and use it as "nose art" on one of my Big Bertha Rockets!

 

[Nytrunner]

I only came here to cite windy.com and eat popcorn. Jim already cited it, so I guess I have to go make popcorn

 

[Banzai88]

+1 to all the above. Windy app on your phone is the way.

 

[FMarvinS]

As a follow up to Crazy Jim- there was a previous thread in which an app was developed to determine the rocket drift due to winds at particular altitudes. The use of windy.com or other similar sites (see frame 24 on app thread denoted below) in conjunction with this app may predict the "drift distance" of your rocket, see:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/visual-drift-distance-calculator.123989/#post-1978132
Fred, L2
ICBM, S.C.
KG4YGP

 

[Cape Byron]

my go to...first use setting to get from map view to satellite....the 3 bars at left top have everything u need in them.

Find your location..put a stick pin in it...shows winds at wherever u stop slider at right....from ground to 40,000 ft! and the pink arrows show direction across your field wind headed... play with it awhile to figure out how to use...tons of data.

https://www.windy.com/?34.108,-80.546,15,m:eBZadUT,a:zLFFF

View attachment 441351

View attachment 441353

Insanely useful. Just used it to check wind on both sides of the ridge.

 

[Voyager1]

As a follow up to Crazy Jim- there was a previous thread in which an app was developed to determine the rocket drift due to winds at particular altitudes. The use of windy.com or other similar sites (see frame 24 on app thread denoted below) in conjunction with this app may predict the "drift distance" of your rocket, see:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/visual-drift-distance-calculator.123989/#post-1978132
Fred, L2
ICBM, S.C.
KG4YGP

You can use the wind data at the various levels with the multilevel wind plugin for OpenRocket to predict where your rocket will land.

https://github.com/rocketsam2016/MultiLevelWind/releases/tag/latest

 

[steveh.jae]

See also https://earth.nullschool.net/#curre...ographic=-80.34,26.82,2304/loc=-79.654,25.823

For near-real time general wind data useful to plan a day or two out if you follow it regularly.

can also find a quick link on “refdesk.com” if you scroll down to “earth wind map”

 

[tim cubbedge]

See also https://earth.nullschool.net/#curre...ographic=-80.34,26.82,2304/loc=-79.654,25.823

For near-real time general wind data useful to plan a day or two out if you follow it regularly.

can also find a quick link on “refdesk.com” if you scroll down to “earth wind map”

That's pretty cool website!

 

[tomsteve]

all this new fangled tech is awesome. old school i would start launches low altitude and work my way up. get to a point and say,"yup-thats the altitude that says how far ill walk today. "

 

[Ez2cDave]

"Windy" only helps with surface winds . . . "USAIRNET" gives velocities for winds aloft !

https://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/Winds/Aloft.cgi

Dave F.

 

[tim cubbedge]

"Windy" only helps with surface winds . . . "USAIRNET" gives velocities for winds aloft !

https://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/Winds/Aloft.cgi

Dave F.

Obviously you’ve never used Windy.

 

[Voyager1]

"Windy" only helps with surface winds . . . "USAIRNET" gives velocities for winds aloft !

https://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/Winds/Aloft.cgi

Dave F.

No!
I've just had it up to 13.5 km. There's a layer slider on the right hand side.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Obviously you’ve never used Windy.

No!
I've just had it up to 13.5 km. There's a layer slider on the right hand side.

Guilty . . . I didn't see the "slider" on the Windy site. Plus, I got there by punching in "Windy.com", without using the link to the example posted.
Dave F.

 

[cbwho]

My iPad doesn’t show the slider on the windy website

 

[tim cubbedge]

My iPad doesn’t show the slider on the windy website

It’s there. Tap on the right side and scroll down a bit.

 

[BABAR]

How do I estimate higher altitude wind speed? I assume that above the tree line windspeed picks up a lot. So fights going over 1000 ft might start hitting higher wind speed causing my rocket to drift more after ejection. I have a small field and will be using streamers to mitigate this as much as possible. Eventually I'd like to achieve flights over 2,000 and 3,000ft.

Is there a way, through weather reports or aviation reports to find out this info? There is an airport about 4 miles away, so If they post this info it would be pretty relevant to my launch area.

New to rocketry, after a 30 year absence.

Thanks

Define “small field size”?
Bottom of this page may give you an idea of what motors may be appropriate for your field

https://www.nar.org/safety-information/model-rocket-safety-code/

 

[RocketTree]

my go to...first use setting to get from map view to satellite....the 3 bars at left top have everything u need in them.

Find your location..put a stick pin in it...shows winds at wherever u stop slider at right....from ground to 40,000 ft! and the pink arrows show direction across your field wind headed... play with it awhile to figure out how to use...tons of data.

https://www.windy.com/?34.108,-80.546,15,m:eBZadUT,a:zLFFF

View attachment 441351

View attachment 441353

Well thank you for this!!!

 

[stealth6]

Just spit and watch which way it goes.

Of course you have to be above the altitude you are checking for this to work. --- I used to work on a hot air balloon crew. As you may be aware, the only way to "steer" them is to get into a wind layer that's going the direction you want to go. The pilots routinely used this high-tech methodology to check which way the wind was blowing (below them). They'd spit over the side, watch it fall, and see which way currents were moving below, then descend to the right one, and voila...steering!

Probably not all that practical for your purposes though.

(in all seriousness though, CJim is "steering you in the right direction", as he so often does. Follow him, it often goes to a good place (or at least a very interesting one).

s6

 

[CrocketRocket]

Define “small field size”?
Bottom of this page may give you an idea of what motors may be appropriate for your field

https://www.nar.org/safety-information/model-rocket-safety-code/

My field is 750ft x 500ft.

This is larger than what I has access to as a kid, but . . . launching from the middle almost blew a 650ft high Wizard (B4-4 engine) flight right out of the field.

My fault though, because it was windy on that day.

I would like to attempt flights over 1,000 / 2,000 / 2,500 / 3,000 ft. I'm not sure it will be possible from this field. Whatever I'm launching that high would have to be on streamer to even have a chance of returning. And there would have to be no wind. If the rocket drifts out of this field there are forests of large oak trees in every direction, so I would most likely NOT get lucky and get the rocket back, if it leaves the field.

All opinions welcome.

 

[CrocketRocket]

1. Launch Site. I will launch my rocket outdoors, in an open area at least as large as shown in the accompanying table, and in safe weather conditions with wind speeds no greater than 20 miles per hour. I will ensure that there is no dry grass close to the launch pad, and that the launch site does not present risk of grass fires.

Hmmm....

Model Rocket Safety Code chart says:
impulse engine dimensions

10.01–20.00

D

500

Looks like I'd be capped at "D" size engines.

I'm surprised they do it like that since the launch site are would be dictated by rocket altitude and not engine size, but I guess its easy.

Thank you Babar!

 

[CrocketRocket]

"launch site area would be dictated "

 

[Nytrunner]

'm surprised they do it like that since the launch site are would be dictated by rocket altitude and not engine size, but I guess its easy.

For high power flying, safety distances are determined by motor size, and field dimensions are determined by altitude.

As far as field size for your rockets, this is where you start to develop flight and recovery skill.
-How fast does your rocket descend on parachute?
-With that, you know how long it will take to land (thermals excepted)
-With the landing time, you can calculate how far it will drif tin 5mph, 10 mph, 15mph winds
-If that drift takes you out of the field, either readjust your launch position, or do the hardest thing of all: Don't fly it that day
-If that all sounds tedious to calculate and recalculate for each rocket, I highly recommend you do it once by hand to understand it, then use a simulation program like Rocsim or Openrocket that can help spped up the calcs

 

[axonterminal]

Kinda belated but I use ventusky. ventusky.com/?p=42.7;-103.5;3&l=wind-925hpa

 

[CrocketRocket]

I don't mind calculating it by hand. It actually seems fun. Since my rockets will all be streamer recovery, I can make a chart of various drift based on altitude heights, rate of descent, and common wind speeds

Thanks

 

[BABAR]

For winds up to 1600 feet, you can launch a “disposable rocket” like an Estes Viking. Multipacks are pretty cheap. Add an extra long streamer for visibility (once you get over 10 to 1 ratio length to width, it doesn’t do much MORE to slow the fall, which is GOOD, but it does increase visibility, which is also GOOD.) stick a c6-7 in it, build it light (paint optional). If you can find a source for cheap nose cones and body tubes, you can build your own even cheaper.

I don’t fly much over 500 feet myself, but I often will launch a small rocket first just to see what winds up at that level are doing,

If it doesn’t land in your field, nothing higher will. And it’s small and light, so while it is poor form to drop rockets in someone’s backyard, if I was to do it with a streamer recovery rocket, it’s probably be a Viking.