High altitude liquid rocket

[FredA]

Something you may find interesting . . .

Indeed was - thanks Dave

 

[bjphoenix]

Well, since we're licensed as a distillery too, a 150 proof pear eau de vie / NO2 engine would probably meet that criteria.

didn't that type of fuel work for the Germans in Wwii?

 

[BDB]

I was honestly going to suggest alcohol/NOX as a starting point for the OP. I think Charles is onto something.

 

[rocket_troy]

I was honestly going to suggest alcohol/NOX as a starting point for the OP. I think Charles is onto something.

Certainly not as safe as GOX+liquid fuel as a starting point, but does provide a more direct (and probably easier) path to flight ready hardware.

But, yeah lots of party fun in the making.

TP

 

[Q38]

N2O+Methanol

Relatively inexpensive, good performance, regen with the methanol (not the N2O), control chamber temperature with water dilution of methanol (run the trade study study, large H2O dilution marginally impacts isp), stable combustion, copper/stainless steel construction. Other options, isopropyl alcohol, ethanol, denatured alcohol.

Much safer than expensive IRFNA, no cryo issues/problems. Very successful high and low pressure motors. No handling transport issues. Easily ignited with a pyrotechnic igniter. Operates over a wide pressure range. Engines have been test over 1000 psi. Handle the N2O like high pressure GOx. Scales easily, film cooling possible with a heat sink chamber.

 

[cls]

didn't that type of fuel work for the Germans in Wwii?

Yes, and the 1943 potato crop was under guard for national security.

 

[Q38]

Yes, and the 1943 potato crop was under guard for national security.

V2 = LOx+ 75%ethanol and 25%water. Steel combustion chamber, pinwheel igniter. 300 psi chamber. First short range ballistic missile and first to break the Karman Line. Used “renewable” ethanol to preserve the petroleum files for aircraft.

The precursor to the Redstone missile (same HP fed turbo pump fed design)

 

[kramer714]

Zburnt,

I have mentored (formally and informally) a bunch of students wanting to get into rocketery. Based on my experience and your post i would (respectfully) recommend the following approach;

I really think you need to take a few important steps to get to your goal.
1) Work your way up to a level 3 certification using commercial off the shelf motors
2) fly some commercial off the shelf hybrids, heck even use one for your level 3
3) design, and build a 38 or 54 mm EX hybrid (standard size so you can buy a case and grain liners off the shelf) using NOX

• Analyze the design , calculate ahead of time the chamber pressure, chamber temperature, tank pressure, thrust, case temperature
• Create actual drawings (just a cad model isn't a 'build to') with tolerances and tolerance stack up
• Analyze the stresses in the motor case (understand what fatigue allowables and temperature knock down factors are)
• make / buy / CALIBRATE the instrumentation to monitor the motor when fired (understand the limitations of test equipment and how to calibrate it)
• Write a test plan (really, dont just stick it on the stand and fire it) - no plan no REAL test - no plan no safety....
• Find a site with a test stand or find a spot that will let you test the motor safely - hopefully find someone there with safety experience.
• Instrument the motor - PER YOUR TEST PLAN
• Test - review the results against your analysis. Understand the differences between the actual performance and predicted.

4) Then think about your liquid motor

If it seems like 1,2,and 3 are a lot of work, they are an order of magnitude simpler that what you are proposing.

As far as #1 (getting your level 3) If you came up to me at a launch and asked my advice on your project, one of the first things i would ask is what rockets have you built. You say your goal isn't just to build the motor but fly it. I would assume that you have some high power complex rocket experience.

Why #2? this will significantly increase your learning curve, reduce your overall program cost, and reduce your schedule. Know what a flare nut wrench is? Or a BLEVE?

Why 3? school is expensive and takes time a NOX hybrid, and more importantly the design and analysis of one is much simpler than what you are proposing. Learn a lot from the hybrid, will make your ultimate goal MUCH more achievable. Plus (this is an on going thought ) if you were to walk up to me at a launch and ask questions about a liquid engine, I would ask what design, and analysis experience do you have? EX hybrids would show some capability. Comparing the EX hybrid to what you are proposing;

• EX Hybrid - significantly simpler design - only a few models / drawings
• EX Hybrid - Easier to make safe, both in fabrication ,testing , and launching. Things like have you thought about getting rid of the fuel and oxidizers from your proposed liquid motor in case of a pad scrub?
• EX Hybrid - significantly simpler to fabricate. Can use an off the shelf snap ring case, simple bulkheads, and simple nozzle. Can use cast fuel
• EX Hybrid WITH NOX - simple self pressurizing, gives you some experience calculating / designing liquid flows.

If all this sounds like too much work, then please dont even think about a liquid motor

The saying is ready - aim - fire, reading what you wrote (again respectfully) sounds more like a ready - fire - then aim kind of plan.

Good Luck

 

[kramer714]

Check out Contrail Hybrids.

 

[zburnt]

I have seen some confusion on my current goals, and the plan I would like to work on. I am going to make a new post with a much more focused and accurate plan about a rocket engine with more specifics. Thanks for all of the help, I appreciate everyone who has replied. I hope that more input is added in the new post.

 

[ksaves2]

I feel that is not strong enough. We are self guided community, let's keep it going. Strong words.

or else https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/22/brigham-young-university-stud

Well shoot looks like my kitchen:
Mine is the one that's not trashed! I only do APCP and certainly not in the kitchen. Quite similar design and my house is from the mid to late 70's. In my kitchen, the trash compactor to the left of the gas stove is broke and I cleaned it out for storage. The power cable has been appropriately cut off. Countertops are off white Corian and the counter passes through the sink area and loops around to another countertop area for food prep. The Corian cost a pretty penny like $6.5k over 30 years ago. There is a lot more countertop area to the right past the sink. Kurt

 

[cerving]

Probably making sugar propellant... after watching some guy do it on YouTube.