Don't resist the power of the dark X-15! :wink:
Hangar 11 4" X-15 Build
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Don't resist the power of the dark X-15! :wink:
Brent
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Mine was the very first production run. I want to say about 5 years ago. Here is a launch video from 2011. Camera was mounted on tripod so it is just lift off.
[video=youtube;R6FmyNYpk2o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6FmyNYpk2o[/video]
Saw H11 was in NY and got excited.....yea, 5 hours away.
I felt the same when I looked up URRG. :wink:
I remember that video! Very nice! Any other construction tips and any flight/recovery tips?
First step is to inventory all the parts! Highly recommended since there are a LOT of small parts. Each of the three main assemblies (wing, tail fins, tail cone) uses CRs, bolts, nuts, washers and such.
Also it is recommended that you test fit everything. One of the CRs I got was cut off-center and so it wasn't quite working out (Bobby noted to me that my kit has laser cut wood; however future kits will use regular die-cut (?) wood CRs...which I would think would eliminate this type of off-register error
Bobby got me another CR lickety split, so customer support was very good! I guess it's helpful to be able to visit him. :wink:
This is reason enough to buy the kit because it pretty much guarantees that the fins / wings will align perfectly! No more "eye balling" or using angle, not saying its bad to use those methods, but its nice to have it done for you
Stupid question but it looks like the tail coat and nose cone are pre painted? Does it come that way.
If I was to paint the kit I would go with a flat black and give it that military look. Not only that I can't paint worth a bird's dodo and flat black would be more forgiving. I would probably paint a silver tip on the nose cone.
If I was to paint the kit I would go with a flat black and give it that military look. Not only that I can't paint worth a bird's dodo and flat black would be more forgiving. I would probably paint a silver tip on the nose cone.
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This is reason enough to buy the kit because it pretty much guarantees that the fins / wings will align perfectly! No more "eye balling" or using angle, not saying its bad to use those methods, but its nice to have it done for you
I agree! The kit is beautiful and I entertained the idea of maybe scratch building one later; however I thought again about the angled fins, multiple CRs, body wraps/curved surfaces, cockpit nose, etc. and realized then there is a reason these kits aren't cheap. A lot of engineering also goes into H11 kits and those interlocking parts are STRONG.
Actually a good question. The wraps, nose and tail cone are molded in black material (you can see by the pieces I had cut off). Not quite sure what material it is...some sort of plastic. Bobby said I can use ABS glue or epoxy for bonding. Flat black sounds more practical; however I'm looking for a nice shiny black right now.
pyrobob
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This is reason enough to buy the kit because it pretty much guarantees that the fins / wings will align perfectly! No more "eye balling" or using angle, not saying its bad to use those methods, but its nice to have it done for you
Yeah, I agree!
Actually a good question. The wraps, nose and tail cone are molded in black material (you can see by the pieces I had cut off). Not quite sure what material it is...some sort of plastic. Bobby said I can use ABS glue or epoxy for bonding. Flat black sounds more practical; however I'm looking for a nice shiny black right now.
No one ever does the pink ones....
If I did that, people would assume it's in primer and ask me when I'm going to paint it! :wink:
Now that I've given out all my candy, back to the build...
I should note that the instructions have a lot of good advice like "Preparation=Success","It is not a race, take pride in your work, get it right" and "measure twice and cut once." There's also some steps I've skipped over since they're already in there (such as to CA the tube edges before fitting the CRs).
So this is more of a personal experience build log and definitely not meant to replace/substitute the actual instructions.
I should note that the instructions have a lot of good advice like "Preparation=Success","It is not a race, take pride in your work, get it right" and "measure twice and cut once." There's also some steps I've skipped over since they're already in there (such as to CA the tube edges before fitting the CRs).
So this is more of a personal experience build log and definitely not meant to replace/substitute the actual instructions.
Step 5 - Forward fin set and shock cord
Cool! This is where things start to really build...let's get our wings on!
You start by assembling the forward fin section outside of the body tube. This is so you can test fit everything and also see how it gets put together since you can't see much of it once the parts are inside the bt and the wings inside of the slots. The instructions note to "line up the CRs with the 'T' nuts flange facing the nose cone". This means that the flange (flat part) of the T-nut will be forward, so the bolts will be inserted from the aft end to tighten everything together. I highly recommend following this first rather than thinking you can skip the outside test fit. You also have spacers above and below the wings to keep the CRs lined up and strong. The instructions also note to line up the recovery strap slots and later says to thread the recovery strap through the outer slots on both of the CRs and then back up through the inner slots, then make a double knot.
I differed from the instructions a bit in that I used 3/8" tubular kevlar from Wildman...I think the instructions were referencing what I'd guess to be 1/2" wide nylon recovery strap; however I couldn't find what the exact "strap" was, so I used what I had on hand and I felt the 3/8" tubular kevlar was up to the task. Additionally, the replacement CR I got only had one slot and all slots seemed very narrow, so I enlarged them slightly to fit the 3/8" kevlar I had, then I put a knot between the two CRs, a small bit of slack and a knot behind the last forward section CR. This part took some planning since I had to pre-plan this, assemble outside, dissassemble, and then assemble inside the bt.
*EDIT: Bobby says the strap he was referencing was meant to be 9/16" nylon such as that from PML. He noted that the strap would go in the outer slots through both CRs (forward to back), then back up through both inner slots and then the loose end knotted around the longer end so that the line would cinch around both CRs. Side note is that my replacement CR only had one slot cut in it, but it looked like an earlier one he grabbed for me out of his personal box when I dropped by for a replacement (this didn't matter in my case since I was using different cordage).
Here is the pic of the test fitting of the forward section. You can see all the parts I've mentioned earlier there.
*EDIT: Note that my pic shows bolts through innermost holes; however Bobby told me it should be in the outer holes next to the fin tabs since the inner ones were for the motor retainer; however I think he was thinking of his other glueless kits since the X-15 doesn't use any of the main CRs for the motor retainer. The instructions had included a pic of the assembly similar to mine above; however it was too blurry for me to determine where the bolts were.. I personally feel either would be fine in my case since I already planned to glue the CRs to the bt, so the bolts were more for lining up and additional strength.
Another thing to note is that while the instructions tell you to insert the bolts through the CRs, the CRs actually have two sets of holes (8 holes - see CR pic above...the one with the 'X' is fine as a reference). There are 4 holes closer to the middle and another 4 holes further out from the center and next to where the fins/spacers connect to the CR. I decided to go with the center holes because: 1) then the T-nut flange wouldn't interfere with any fin/spacer tab (they don't necessarily sit flush with the CR and are a bit "proud"); 2) I thought it would be stronger since the motor tube doesn't project through this assembly (however the motor casing fits through perfectly); and 3) I figured I can more easily see the bolt and direct it to the T-nut by looking through the center hole (even though the instructions later tell you to use an empty motor casing to line things up in the bt).
I think directing the bolts to the small T-nut holes when the assembly is in the bt is one of the harder parts of this build (or maybe most frustrating) since you're poking the bolt through (at times blindly) hoping to hit the t-nut.
Cool! This is where things start to really build...let's get our wings on!
You start by assembling the forward fin section outside of the body tube. This is so you can test fit everything and also see how it gets put together since you can't see much of it once the parts are inside the bt and the wings inside of the slots. The instructions note to "line up the CRs with the 'T' nuts flange facing the nose cone". This means that the flange (flat part) of the T-nut will be forward, so the bolts will be inserted from the aft end to tighten everything together. I highly recommend following this first rather than thinking you can skip the outside test fit. You also have spacers above and below the wings to keep the CRs lined up and strong. The instructions also note to line up the recovery strap slots and later says to thread the recovery strap through the outer slots on both of the CRs and then back up through the inner slots, then make a double knot.
I differed from the instructions a bit in that I used 3/8" tubular kevlar from Wildman...I think the instructions were referencing what I'd guess to be 1/2" wide nylon recovery strap; however I couldn't find what the exact "strap" was, so I used what I had on hand and I felt the 3/8" tubular kevlar was up to the task. Additionally, the replacement CR I got only had one slot and all slots seemed very narrow, so I enlarged them slightly to fit the 3/8" kevlar I had, then I put a knot between the two CRs, a small bit of slack and a knot behind the last forward section CR. This part took some planning since I had to pre-plan this, assemble outside, dissassemble, and then assemble inside the bt.
*EDIT: Bobby says the strap he was referencing was meant to be 9/16" nylon such as that from PML. He noted that the strap would go in the outer slots through both CRs (forward to back), then back up through both inner slots and then the loose end knotted around the longer end so that the line would cinch around both CRs. Side note is that my replacement CR only had one slot cut in it, but it looked like an earlier one he grabbed for me out of his personal box when I dropped by for a replacement (this didn't matter in my case since I was using different cordage).
Here is the pic of the test fitting of the forward section. You can see all the parts I've mentioned earlier there.
*EDIT: Note that my pic shows bolts through innermost holes; however Bobby told me it should be in the outer holes next to the fin tabs since the inner ones were for the motor retainer; however I think he was thinking of his other glueless kits since the X-15 doesn't use any of the main CRs for the motor retainer. The instructions had included a pic of the assembly similar to mine above; however it was too blurry for me to determine where the bolts were.. I personally feel either would be fine in my case since I already planned to glue the CRs to the bt, so the bolts were more for lining up and additional strength.
Another thing to note is that while the instructions tell you to insert the bolts through the CRs, the CRs actually have two sets of holes (8 holes - see CR pic above...the one with the 'X' is fine as a reference). There are 4 holes closer to the middle and another 4 holes further out from the center and next to where the fins/spacers connect to the CR. I decided to go with the center holes because: 1) then the T-nut flange wouldn't interfere with any fin/spacer tab (they don't necessarily sit flush with the CR and are a bit "proud"); 2) I thought it would be stronger since the motor tube doesn't project through this assembly (however the motor casing fits through perfectly); and 3) I figured I can more easily see the bolt and direct it to the T-nut by looking through the center hole (even though the instructions later tell you to use an empty motor casing to line things up in the bt).
I think directing the bolts to the small T-nut holes when the assembly is in the bt is one of the harder parts of this build (or maybe most frustrating) since you're poking the bolt through (at times blindly) hoping to hit the t-nut.
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Dropped by H11 today to discuss some things with Bobby and got some clarifications on the last post.
Step 5 - Forward fin set and shock cord (Continued)
The instructions then note to "Install the (recovery) strap now then disassemble and reassemble INSIDE the body tube."
Sounds simple! :wink:
So the first head scratcher for me here was how to install the recovery strap across both CRs, disassemble with the strap in place and then reassemble. Well, now i know how Bobby did it after discussing with him; however in my case I figured it out by adding a knot behind each CR. This means that the top CR can still slide forward on the line until I have it installed and glued in. So first I attached the spacers to the top CR, then put an empty 38mm motor case with aft closure through that CR and down (as per Bobby's instructions for lining up and later to serve to pull everything tight). Then I slid the top forward CR up higher in the cord, pulled the cord and that CR up through the BT from the bottom, lined it up with the slots, then started inserting the fins through the slots, pushed the top CR down onto the fins, then as I pulled the cord up tight at the same time I pushed the bottom forward CR up the body tube and finagled them onto all the tabs on the wings and spacers. Finally use the motor tube sticking out the back to grab and push down the back CR tight. Sounds like a daunting task when you picture this inside of a bt, but it wasn't so bad and went together somewhat fast.
Sorry...forgot to take pics of the steps taken, but here is what it looks like from the top/forward end:
Next I started inserting the long bolts (with flat & lock washers) up through the bottom of the rocket. This part was very, very tricky since once your arm is inside the tube with the bolt, you can't see anything. Plus that bolt has to go into a tiny hole. For me, since I used the middle holes, I could place the bolt where I thought was close, remove my arm and see where it was going. I'd guess that if you use the outer holes, you have the tabs to stop one direction of movement; however I don't think you have any visual of where the bolt is when you stop to look. Once bolts are in, just tighten them down, but not too tight since you are working with plywood CRs!
Here is a pic from the back end:
The instructions then note to "Install the (recovery) strap now then disassemble and reassemble INSIDE the body tube."
Sounds simple! :wink:
So the first head scratcher for me here was how to install the recovery strap across both CRs, disassemble with the strap in place and then reassemble. Well, now i know how Bobby did it after discussing with him; however in my case I figured it out by adding a knot behind each CR. This means that the top CR can still slide forward on the line until I have it installed and glued in. So first I attached the spacers to the top CR, then put an empty 38mm motor case with aft closure through that CR and down (as per Bobby's instructions for lining up and later to serve to pull everything tight). Then I slid the top forward CR up higher in the cord, pulled the cord and that CR up through the BT from the bottom, lined it up with the slots, then started inserting the fins through the slots, pushed the top CR down onto the fins, then as I pulled the cord up tight at the same time I pushed the bottom forward CR up the body tube and finagled them onto all the tabs on the wings and spacers. Finally use the motor tube sticking out the back to grab and push down the back CR tight. Sounds like a daunting task when you picture this inside of a bt, but it wasn't so bad and went together somewhat fast.
Sorry...forgot to take pics of the steps taken, but here is what it looks like from the top/forward end:
Next I started inserting the long bolts (with flat & lock washers) up through the bottom of the rocket. This part was very, very tricky since once your arm is inside the tube with the bolt, you can't see anything. Plus that bolt has to go into a tiny hole. For me, since I used the middle holes, I could place the bolt where I thought was close, remove my arm and see where it was going. I'd guess that if you use the outer holes, you have the tabs to stop one direction of movement; however I don't think you have any visual of where the bolt is when you stop to look. Once bolts are in, just tighten them down, but not too tight since you are working with plywood CRs!
Here is a pic from the back end:
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The instructions then note that before tightening the screws, "slide the fin & CR assembly forward until the fins are flush to the forward edge of the slot". I tried this; however I wasn't completely sure that was right since I did widen the wing slots after all and the instructions didn't account for this. I went back to Bobby to confirm and he noted that I'm supposed to slide it forward and I think he added that otherwise the back section won't fit (memory is a bit fuzzy on this part) and he noted to be careful with the back end since the tail fin slots are 1/8" from the end of the tube. I mentioned to him that mine were more like 1/4"-1/2" and he was surprised to hear that, so I'm guessing again it is a case of slight manufacturing differences/changes.
I looked on the internet for pics of the X-15 and the wings do seem further back than if I slid them forward...plus for me it helps to move fins back with rockets, so I didn't slide them forward. Looking at this pic and viewing the top rudder, you see that if you extend an imaginary line from the front/leading edge of the rudder downwards, it almost intersects with the trailer/back edge of the wings:
To finish off this area, I added epoxy to where the CRs meet the bt (which is optional, but I thought it made sense since the forward section can still slide after tightening the bolts!) and also added some epoxy on the knot in the back. Makes for an impressively solid build.
Note: Building detail continues in Post #71.
I looked on the internet for pics of the X-15 and the wings do seem further back than if I slid them forward...plus for me it helps to move fins back with rockets, so I didn't slide them forward. Looking at this pic and viewing the top rudder, you see that if you extend an imaginary line from the front/leading edge of the rudder downwards, it almost intersects with the trailer/back edge of the wings:
To finish off this area, I added epoxy to where the CRs meet the bt (which is optional, but I thought it made sense since the forward section can still slide after tightening the bolts!) and also added some epoxy on the knot in the back. Makes for an impressively solid build.
Note: Building detail continues in Post #71.
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I have big hand maybe I should get the 6" kit? :lol::lol::lol:
So Ken what do you think of this design and assembly process?
So Ken what do you think of this design and assembly process?
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You must have some meaty mitts to not be able to fit them inside a 4" diameter tube! :lol:
I'm considered short (5'5"); however I have very meaty palms (size small hands, size M/L palms...gloves are difficult for me to have fit and not tear through the middle.
I think the design is FANTASTIC; however the assembly process is hampered by the instructions...they should be more specific in some areas and updated to account for the recent changes. To be fair the instructions do note "REVISION 1" at the top and this is what I would consider a very niche kit (above garage kit, but not main production).
Personally I enjoy puzzles, unique kits and overcoming challenges, so this one is right up my alley and I thought I'd do others a service by detailing what I'm building through.
What are your thoughts? Any feedback from the viewers at home?
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Ken - you're doing a nice job on building this kit.
dixontj93060
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+1. This is a much harder build than the 6" version I have.
On the 6" version do you have to unassembled and assemble the motor mount assembly the same way....inside the airframe?
dixontj93060
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No, not at all. It follows a traditional build. No interlocking pieces. I had to do some adjustments to get the nosecone to fit/work the way I wanted and then some reinforcement of the tailcone, but that's about it.
That's cool....doesn't it fly on a 75?? I didn't look it up yet
dixontj93060
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No, 54mm. It's a looker, not a performer.
Thanks guys! Somehow I may be making it sound harder than it is since a lot of it is different technique and harder to explain than to do. I think clarifying instructions would go a long way to making this come together more easily.
On the other hand, later on I made it much harder. I spoke to Bobby about possibly making it DD; however he said that would be tough and told me I could use a "Defy Gravity" tether. I searched it out and it's similar to a cable cutter/delayed restrained chute device...even found one on ebay (they're no longer made). However in the end I figured out a way to go Head End Deploy DD (like the Punisher) and I'm almost done and may test tomorrow. This probably made it 10x harder, but I'm enjoying the figuring things out part and seeing it come together. I'll detail more of the build as soon as I can (and I will finish!); however right now I'm rushing to get this flight worthy by this weekend since it's my local club's last launch*.
*Note: I screwed up my build timing...I heard last launch was second week of Nov, so last week (Oct) I thought I had at least 2 more weeks...then I realized this Sunday that it was Nov 1, which meant last launch in 1 week! Oh well, the deadline is the ultimate motivator, right? :wink:
why worry about a deadline there are other launches. I never put a deadline on something. Take your time build it right and less chance for mistakes. Ken this is a great build and I'm enjoying watching it come together.
dixontj93060
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No worries guys...my last two decades of work has been about deadlines and such. One earlier job had me meet a non-negotiable "next morning due no matter what" deadline on a multi-M$ account and I used to work like a madman for 12+ hours and stay past midnight twice a week. This went on for years and the big account was MCI Worldcom...oh well! My current job is along the same lines and is very deadline driven, so I'm very used to it. I constantly re-plan according to the situation and I seem to do well under "stress" and deadlines.
One reason for the sudden rush is that this is the last launch for this season at my local field before winter sets in it's cold grip...there is another club that launches the week or so after that, but it's a 4 hour drive, I don't know if I can make it, and weather is always a 50/50 issue this time of year. So with this situation, if I don't launch this weekend, it may not be until Spring of next year and I'd hate to keep the thread "on ice" until then for a launch report. :grin:
My replans include just not launching if the rocket doesn't pass my "good to fly" inspection. Additionally, I may spend more of Saturday with DD testing and skip any paint and filler and launch on Sunday.
If it wasn't for me going DD, I probably would've been done by now, but alas, I'm stubborn with getting things the way I want. :wink: Where things stand right now is I have most of the DD set up...safety switch is tricky to hook up since I used a Madcow sled and it has rods in the way, but I may just do simple "two loose wires out and taped" safety switch for now. I also have to put weights and all-thread into the nose and I'm set for DD testing.
BTW - Later on I'll give tips on how to fit the wraps. I learned a lot on one side and did better on the other, so I can provide help on this.
One reason for the sudden rush is that this is the last launch for this season at my local field before winter sets in it's cold grip...there is another club that launches the week or so after that, but it's a 4 hour drive, I don't know if I can make it, and weather is always a 50/50 issue this time of year. So with this situation, if I don't launch this weekend, it may not be until Spring of next year and I'd hate to keep the thread "on ice" until then for a launch report. :grin:
My replans include just not launching if the rocket doesn't pass my "good to fly" inspection. Additionally, I may spend more of Saturday with DD testing and skip any paint and filler and launch on Sunday.
If it wasn't for me going DD, I probably would've been done by now, but alas, I'm stubborn with getting things the way I want. :wink: Where things stand right now is I have most of the DD set up...safety switch is tricky to hook up since I used a Madcow sled and it has rods in the way, but I may just do simple "two loose wires out and taped" safety switch for now. I also have to put weights and all-thread into the nose and I'm set for DD testing.
BTW - Later on I'll give tips on how to fit the wraps. I learned a lot on one side and did better on the other, so I can provide help on this.
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