Gemini pronunciation question

[modeltrains]

(Native Houston Texan living in Georgia)

Resistance is futile, you know, you will be assimilated - and I mean it, after 2 years of living in Charleston, SC, then 4 years of living in Macon, GA, the people in Virginia commented on my southern accent after we moved there. I thought that was quite interesting.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

One of the engineering challenges for Project Gemini was to solve the Titan II booster’s tendency toward longitudinal oscillations known as the “pogo effect” or, as space program insiders called it, “Jumpin’ Jiminy”.

 

[modeltrains]

Different word, same concept, so may or may not count as a tangent to the topic, but, hey, astrologically I'm a Gemini, if you are in to that, I'm not, so, yeah, by definition my twin is going to think of a second word ...

I follow the Battleship New Jersey museum on YouTube and the curator Ryan recently did some things about BB-63 Missouri.
It was interesting to see a number of comments telling him he was pronouncing Missouri wrong.
And that as a museum curator he would look a whole lot better if he learned how to pronounce Missouri correctly.

Huh?
No.
He isn't.
My parents, now 83, are from MO, one near Kansas City, one near Branson.
I've lived in Missouri since 1987, presently toward center of state.
No.
He isn't.

Ahh ...

A little bit of interaction showed that at least a couple people who were insisting Ryan was ignorant of the "correct" pronunciation of Missouri were not originally from MO.
And that they lived around Saint Louis.

Thing is ...

Linguists have identified something like 8, eight, different historical pronunciations of Missouri.
And two different currently dominant pronunciations.
A good portion of the public will tell you that the pronunciation divide is North-South.
Actual study of it has shown it is divided West-East.
With a dash of N-S variation in places.
A thing I've seen in my parents' families.
And,
Which reveals why the non-native St Louis crowd was insisting they were right and Ryan was wrong.

Anyway ... pronunciation of Missouri ...
has documented historical and current variations in what is done with ...
the 'ss'
the 'ou'
the 'ri'
either individually or in some combination.

EDIT: How'd I leave out the beginning of the word?
In "Mi" that 'i' gets pronounced more like the 'y' in Lyft or more like the 'a' & 'u' in what pug.

Ultimately,

Missouri is ...

an Englishified Frenchization of a Native American word.

so ...

... how is even the mere concept of "correct" pronunciation applicable at all?

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Gemini 7, which flew during December 1965, was often referred to by space program insiders as “Jiminy Christmas“.

 

[NTP2]

So let's ask someone who's first language is Latin.

Quick! To the Time Machine!

 

[Rschub]

I guess this is what passes for a glue thread nowadays.

 

[NTP2]

I guess this is what passes for a glue thread nowadays.

Arguing is a ancient tradition and needs to survive into the modern world

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Different word, same concept, so may or may not count as a tangent to the topic, but, hey, astrologically I'm a Gemini, if you are in to that, I'm not, so, yeah, by definition my twin is going to think of a second word ...

I follow the Battleship New Jersey museum on YouTube and the curator Ryan recently did some things about BB-63 Missouri.
It was interesting to see a number of comments telling him he was pronouncing Missouri wrong.
And that as a museum curator he would look a whole lot better if he learned how to pronounce Missouri correctly.

Huh?
No.
He isn't.
My parents, now 83, are from MO, one near Kansas City, one near Branson.
I've lived in Missouri since 1987, presently toward center of state.
No.
He isn't.

Ahh ...

A little bit of interaction showed that at least a couple people who were insisting Ryan was ignorant of the "correct" pronunciation of Missouri were not originally from MO.
And that they lived around Saint Louis.

Thing is ...

Linguists have identified something like 8, eight, different historical pronunciations of Missouri.
And two different currently dominant pronunciations.
A good portion of the public will tell you that the pronunciation divide is North-South.
Actual study of it has shown it is divided West-East.
With a dash of N-S variation in places.
A thing I've seen in my parents' families.
And,
Which reveals why the non-native St Louis crowd was insisting they were right and Ryan was wrong.

Anyway ... pronunciation of Missouri ...
has documented historical and current variations in what is done with ...
the 'ss'
the 'ou'
the 'ri'
either individually or in some combination.

Ultimately,

Missouri is ...

an Englishified Frenchization of a Native American word.

so ...

... how is even the mere concept of "correct" pronunciation applicable at all?

Let‘s just compromise and agree to call the state Bob.

 

[John Kemker]

Resistance is futile, you know, you will be assimilated - and I mean it, after 2 years of living in Charleston, SC, then 4 years of living in Macon, GA, the people in Virginia commented on my southern accent after we moved there. I thought that was quite interesting.

Moved to Georgia in 1979. I *still* think these Georgia crackers don't know how to pronounce certain words. Houston is just one of them. Don't get me started on the proper pronunciation of "La Vista," "Buena Vista," or "Lafayette." /smh

 

[Rob Campbell]

In Ohio, they think Rio rhymes with Ohio.

 

[Lord Rory Gin]

I hear ya, and there's a whole debate on how to pronounce things when trying to balance how most people say it (and where they're located) and whether to use the historically or geographically correct pronunciation. There's no use in being "right" in how you pronounce something if most people hear what you say and think you're odd, pretentious, crazy, wrong, etc.

A great example is pronouncing non-English words/names with the pronunciation a native speaker would use.

Normally, I would agree with that statement but far too often I hear Americans mispronouncing French/Metis words with an anglicized accent. Growing up in Canada with a French speaking province, I'm more used to hearing the Quebecois accent. I've even heard Americans (from the show American Loggers) mispronounce Pelletier like pel-let-teer instead of its native pronunciation of pelt-chay. They didn't even know how to pronounce their own name for crying out loud!
FYI, I've always pronounced it jem-in-igh and never jem-in-knee and didn't know that American south had a different pronunciation for the word until I saw a Gemini history video.

 

[Rschub]

I always spell Wah-lah phonetically because people mostly think voila is a flower or a weird guitar.

 

[Rschub]

Arguing is a ancient tradition and needs to survive into the modern world

 

[Azamiryou]

Arguing is a ancient tradition and needs to survive into the modern world

No, it isn't!

 

[modeltrains]

The 'correct' pronunciation of English,
has had major change before and given the laws of probability likely will again.
So,
this whole conversation could potentially lose all meaning before the century is out.

For instance:

The Great Vowel Shift​

https://chaucer.fas.harvard.edu/pages/great-vowel-shift
"
Old and Middle English were written in the Latin alphabet and the vowels were represented by the letters assigned to the sounds in Latin. For example, Middle English "long e" in Chaucer's "sheep" had the value of Latin "e" (and sounded like Modern English "shape" [/e/] in the International Phonetic Alphabet [IPA]). It had much the same value as written long e has in most modern European languages. Consequently, one can read Chaucer's long vowels with the same values as in Latin or any continental European language and come pretty close to the Middle English values.

The Great Vowels Shift changed all that; by the end of the sixteenth century the "e" in "sheep" sounded like that in Modern English "sheep" or "meet" [IPA /i/]. To many it seemed that the pronunciation of English had moved so far from its visual representation that a new alphabet was needed, and in the sixteenth century we have the first attempts to "reform" English spellings, a movement still active today. In 1569 John Hart (in his Orthographie) went so far as to devise a new phonetic alphabet to remedy what he considered a fatal flaw in our system of language. (His alphabet and the work of other language reformers provides us with our best evidence for the pronunciation of English in his time).
"

See also:

 

[Antares JS]

It may have been the "space club's" secret hand shake, but that doesn't make it right.

I assumed the handshake was "Are you a turtle?"

 

[Art Upton]

I assumed the handshake was "Are you a turtle?"

"you bet your A$$ I am" was the reply

 

[Antares JS]

"you bet your A$$ I am" was the reply

Wrong! Missing a word. You owe me a drink.

 

[Art Upton]

Wrong! Missing a word. You owe me a drink.

I know the word, Hi HI

 

[Antares JS]

I know the word, Hi HI

The missing word I'm talking about is not the word you censored.

 

[Art Upton]

The missing word I'm talking about is not the word you censored.

If I recall correctly it is a description that many use for candy.

 

[Antares JS]

If I recall correctly it is a description that many use for candy.

I just don't understand why anyone would be embarrassed to complement their companion on their donkey's friendly disposition.

 

[mjennings]

Different word, same concept, so may or may not count as a tangent to the topic, but, hey, astrologically I'm a Gemini, if you are in to that, I'm not, so, yeah, by definition my twin is going to think of a second word ...

I follow the Battleship New Jersey museum on YouTube and the curator Ryan recently did some things about BB-63 Missouri.
It was interesting to see a number of comments telling him he was pronouncing Missouri wrong.
And that as a museum curator he would look a whole lot better if he learned how to pronounce Missouri correctly.

Huh?
No.
He isn't.
My parents, now 83, are from MO, one near Kansas City, one near Branson.
I've lived in Missouri since 1987, presently toward center of state.
No.
He isn't.

Ahh ...

A little bit of interaction showed that at least a couple people who were insisting Ryan was ignorant of the "correct" pronunciation of Missouri were not originally from MO.
And that they lived around Saint Louis.

Thing is ...

Linguists have identified something like 8, eight, different historical pronunciations of Missouri.
And two different currently dominant pronunciations.
A good portion of the public will tell you that the pronunciation divide is North-South.
Actual study of it has shown it is divided West-East.
With a dash of N-S variation in places.
A thing I've seen in my parents' families.
And,
Which reveals why the non-native St Louis crowd was insisting they were right and Ryan was wrong.

Anyway ... pronunciation of Missouri ...
has documented historical and current variations in what is done with ...
the 'ss'
the 'ou'
the 'ri'
either individually or in some combination.

EDIT: How'd I leave out the beginning of the word?
In "Mi" that 'i' gets pronounced more like the 'y' in Lyft or more like the 'a' & 'u' in what pug.

Ultimately,

Missouri is ...

an Englishified Frenchization of a Native American word.

so ...

... how is even the mere concept of "correct" pronunciation applicable at all?

Living in Mo near St Louis it's harlarios to see state politicians flip between Missour-ee versus Missour-ah, as they move from St Louis and KC to rural areas. I was told that the alternate pronunciation was an attempt to sound educated by pronouncing Missouri in a mid Atlantic ish accent. I don't know if that's true or just the story people told when I was growing up. St Louis has a lot of peculiar old local slang and that's before you get to the Rs people randomly stick in to words.

 

[tfrielin]

I distinctly remember watching on TV, August, 1965, hearing a Capcom call Gemini V, hailing it as "Gemin-eye V."

 

[modeltrains]

flip between Missour-ee versus Missour-ah

I do that too.
And likewise with Gemini.

 

[bad_idea]

This is because it's the "southern" way of pronouncing it and Florida, Alabama and Texas are southern states, so when in Rome...

So tell me, any Floridians, Alabamans, and Texans out there, how do your astronomers pronounce the constellation?

I've never heard the "jiminy" pronunciation outside of the context of the Gemini Program.

 

[Rob Campbell]

No, it isn't!

Are you arguing in your spare time?

 

[Azamiryou]

Are you arguing in your spare time?

I'm not going to argue with you.

 

[bschultz32]

Michigan Tream-1's primary launch site is near Clio, Michigan. If you come to fly from far away and pronounce it "Clee-oh", you are immediately pegged as Not From Around Here. Locals pronounce it Cligh-oh (with a long I). Meanwhile, the Clio Awards for advertising are pronounced "Clee-oh". Go figure . . .

 

[tfrielin]

I'm not going to argue with you.

I hope the Monty Python allusion was not lost here...?