Featherweight 38mm av-bay on-pad deployment?

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Adrian A

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I'm looking for information to help get to the bottom of a potential problem.

At LDRS, one customer let me know that he had had a deployment charge fire on the pad when he armed his 38mm av-bay, and that he had heard of 2 other similar situations. He found that overtightening the threaded rods was a contributing factor. I have not yet been able to reproduce this behavior, and it did not occur during product testing or during my own use of this product.

The Featherweight av-bays are designed specifically so that there are no traces to ground that could complete a deployment charge circuit on the outside surfaces of the bulkhead. That leaves a short somewhere inside the av-bay. The Raven altimeter remained in prelaunch mode and did not detect any launch. The Raven has design safeguards to prevent an inadvertent firing during power-up, and those are effective, based on results from over 1000 units in the field. So that leaves a short somewhere on the 38mm av-bay bulkhead or between the Raven altimeter and the 38mm av-bay.

I have a theory that in an overtightening situation, the active bulkhead could flex enough to bring the altimeter into contact with the threaded rod that has the main deployment charge. If that threaded rod is in contact with a ground signal on the altimeter, that would bypass the Raven's deployment switch and cause the premature firing. I'd like to collect some more information from people that this has happened to, to nail down the root cause.

In particular:

Which deployment charge went off?
Were you using the battery restraint?
Was the av-bay set up inside a 38mm coupler? What was its diameter?

In the meantime, if you're using a 38mm av-bay (and it wouldn't hurt for the other sizes either) I recommend insulating the threaded rods adjacent to the altimeter, using electrical tape or a plastic straw such as a coffee stirrer. I'll add this as an update to the manual soon, just because it's a safety improvement anyway, but I want to make sure I'm not missing something else.

Thanks for your help.
 
Is it possible there are overly large nuts and/or washers placed on the inside of one of the bulkheads?

-Kevin
 
IIRC, the customer that had the problem showed me his av-bay and it was using stock hardware, with the only internal nuts on the passive bulkhead end.
 
i have flown mine a couple times and havent had a problem. didnt insulate the threaded rods or modify anything.
 
I'm looking for information to help get to the bottom of a potential problem.

At LDRS, one customer let me know that he had had a deployment charge fire on the pad when he armed his 38mm av-bay, and that he had heard of 2 other similar situations. He found that overtightening the threaded rods was a contributing factor. I have not yet been able to reproduce this behavior, and it did not occur during product testing or during my own use of this product.

The Featherweight av-bays are designed specifically so that there are no traces to ground that could complete a deployment charge circuit on the outside surfaces of the bulkhead. That leaves a short somewhere inside the av-bay. The Raven altimeter remained in prelaunch mode and did not detect any launch. The Raven has design safeguards to prevent an inadvertent firing during power-up, and those are effective, based on results from over 1000 units in the field. So that leaves a short somewhere on the 38mm av-bay bulkhead or between the Raven altimeter and the 38mm av-bay.

I have a theory that in an overtightening situation, the active bulkhead could flex enough to bring the altimeter into contact with the threaded rod that has the main deployment charge. If that threaded rod is in contact with a ground signal on the altimeter, that would bypass the Raven's deployment switch and cause the premature firing. I'd like to collect some more information from people that this has happened to, to nail down the root cause.

In particular:

Which deployment charge went off?
Were you using the battery restraint?
Was the av-bay set up inside a 38mm coupler? What was its diameter?

In the meantime, if you're using a 38mm av-bay (and it wouldn't hurt for the other sizes either) I recommend insulating the threaded rods adjacent to the altimeter, using electrical tape or a plastic straw such as a coffee stirrer. I'll add this as an update to the manual soon, just because it's a safety improvement anyway, but I want to make sure I'm not missing something else.

Thanks for your help.
Hey Adrian
I know of one case at LDRS where a flier had an ejection charge go off on the pad using the Raven. He was not using the 38mm av-bay.
He did have some issues with one of the two Ravens he was using before we racked the rocket.
Any chance the problem is not with the 38mm av-bay but with something shorting out on the Raven by other means?
 
Hey Adrian
I know of one case at LDRS where a flier had an ejection charge go off on the pad using the Raven. He was not using the 38mm av-bay.
He did have some issues with one of the two Ravens he was using before we racked the rocket.
Any chance the problem is not with the 38mm av-bay but with something shorting out on the Raven by other means?

The most likely explanation would be a user wiring error. There are over 1000 Ravens in the field, so if the cause were the Raven itself, I probably would have heard about more of these situations before now.

Part of the reason for developing the Featherweight Av-bays was to reduce the chances of accidental miswiring. The Featherweight av-bays have helped a lot of people avoid those problems, despite these few incidents I'm working on here. Most likely, these would have been preventable as well with some insulation on the threaded rods inside the av-bay.
 
i have also flown my raven without the av bay a few times and havent had anything but flawless performance i will be flying it again saturday and will report back after.
 
Once in ground testing, just after turning on the 38mm Av-Bay/Raven with the small magnet while it was plugged in to the USB port, one of the ematches went off immediately (not both). I attributed it to being linked via USB when I turned it on (had been doing a few power down/power ups while linked to FIP). So, the next time I installed the Q2G2 'ematches' powered down, powered up the av-bay alone, then connected it up to the USB/FIP--never saw that problem again. I've ground tested a few more times and flown the combo 5 times since without a repeat incident. Could have been me...???
 
i have also flown my raven without the av bay a few times and havent had anything but flawless performance i will be flying it again saturday and will report back after.

Thanks, and glad you like it.

Once in ground testing, just after turning on the 38mm Av-Bay/Raven with the small magnet while it was plugged in to the USB port, one of the ematches went off immediately (not both). I attributed it to being linked via USB when I turned it on (had been doing a few power down/power ups while linked to FIP). So, the next time I installed the Q2G2 'ematches' powered down, powered up the av-bay alone, then connected it up to the USB/FIP--never saw that problem again. I've ground tested a few more times and flown the combo 5 times since without a repeat incident. Could have been me...???

The fact that one but not both fired would be consistent with the type of short I have in mind. So would fixing it by plugging the USB in and out, which would have shifted the position of the altimeter somewhat.
 
Adrian-

I just tried to reproduce the experient that led me to conclued that over tightening the bulkhead could lead to a fault. To make a long story short, I was not able to reproduce my initial result.

Then I started to think that perhaps I misaligned the Raven header to the AV bay pins, perhaps shifting it over so that the AV bay apogee pyro pin was connected to Raven ground. Could this cause the pyro to fire when the mag switch turns on?

I didn't due an experience for fear of damaging my electronics. But I'm thinking that some type of misaligned might be the root cause.

...Fred
 
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