Efficient & Durable light bulbs for exterior fixture use in variable climate?

[Marc_G]

Hi folks,

I live in central Indiana, so I get everything from violent thundershowers in the summer to heavy snow in the winter, and everything in between. A current pet peeve is that my light bulbs in exterior fixtures (coach lamp on a post, 4 more on wall-mounted exterior fixtures) blow out frequently. Each bulb lasts at most two months. Failure mode is usually "broken glass of the bulb" but sometimes it's just "failed bulb element." The broken glass is clearly due to a drop of water getting in past the seals and hitting the hot bulb glass causing it to shatter. Some years ago I got new fixtures, which lessened the blowout frequency but didn't solve the problem. Windblown droplets get in the vents and such of the fixtures and POOF.

Anyway, I'm sick of the work involved in changing these out (ladder, fiddly screws, etc.). So I bought and just today installed one of these super expensive CREE bulbs rated for 10 years life (5 years at my usage hours per day). They don't get really hot like a traditional incandescent bulb, so maybe no more POOF. And they are rated for damp locations.



I had been using 100 W incandescents (which was the max the fixtures are rated for), but got the 60 W CREE which supposedly draws just shy of 10 W power. This should save me >$21 per year in energy per bulb at my usage level and energy cost (estimated). If it lasted me 5 years, this would be $105 in energy savings, and if I figure $1 per regular 100W bulb, six of em per year, about $30 in bulb cost savings. So, about $135 in savings versus a $14 initial cost. Ten-fold ROI, more or less. Plus the convenience of not having to change it.

The question is, what do you guys think: do these particular CREE bulbs actually last reasonably long in this application? I'd be happy if it would just last a year, actually, and I'd be ahead of the game. I'm saving my proof of purchase and receipt for a warranty claim, if needed, with documentation about installation date and use/hr based on the timer.

My experience with early "energy saving" bulbs was not good (slow starts, blowouts, vibration sensitivity, etc.), but more recent ones have worked fairly well to the extent I've used them, indoors...

Any thoughts on good or bad experiences with energy saving bulbs in the last few years, particularly LED based tech, would be appreciated. However, please no political commentary on the ongoing transition away from incandescent.

Thanks guys.

Marc

 

[CarVac]

Not an experience, but LEDs often change colors as they age. It's very difficult to match the lifetimes of the emitters; they dim inevitably over time, but at different rates.

 

[JPVegh]

I've had 6 CFL floods outside for more than 5 years now. They are dim in cold weather when you first turn them on but once they warm up they come up to full output. Course I live in So. Tex where freezes are few and far between

I've been using CFLs since they were ten bucks a pop, now you can buy 6 for that price. I wasn't buying them for energy saving or cuz I'm some sort of tree hugger, I just hate changing light bulbs and the CFLs last a lot longer. I've got some in the house that are ten or fifteen years old. It seems like I change lights in the bathroom more than any other room in the house, not sure why. I've got one above the kitchen sink thats been burning 24/7 for six years now, I'd say I got my moneys worth out of that one.

I suppose that I'll move towards LEDs sooner or later but for now CFLs are cheap and effective.

BTW I still use incandescent light bulbs in my fridge, oven and range hood. What transition away from incandescent? How am I gonna run my easy bake oven?

 

[Worsaer]

I was long frustrated with the slow warm up for CFL's, and even had some burn out way too soon. However, the high cost of LED's put me off until Costco had then at about half the cost of the Home Cheapo. Once I started using LED's I was a convert; immediate on at full intensity.
I went all in when I needed to install a sensor-based yard light a few months ago. I purchased a heavy duty RAB fixture, with 39 watt LED (actually 3 LED emitters). I could not be happier.

 

[fyrwrxz]

I'm with Bill- I have a huge family room that has 2 floods on each corner that require I get on the roof to change as they are 23 feet above ground. The evolution from incandescent (you could see the water collecting in them after a bit) to CFL's to LED's was slow and the price put me off for a really long time, but I finally ripped out the old fixtures and put in motion and lite sensors. The LEDS are great! Now I can land UFO's in my backyard all night. They like peanut butter....

 

[Marc_G]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm feeling better about spending $ for these bulbs now. My early experiences with early generation CFLs put me off for a while but it looks like the products are coming up to snuff. As my outside bulbs pop, I'll replace 'em with new tech bulbs and see how it goes.

 

[dlazarus6660]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm feeling better about spending $ for these bulbs now. My early experiences with early generation CFLs put me off for a while but it looks like the products are coming up to snuff. As my outside bulbs pop, I'll replace 'em with new tech bulbs and see how it goes.

Do these bulbs ever get turned off? If you run ICD bulbs 24/7 they don't last very long.

 

[Marc_G]

Do these bulbs ever get turned off? If you run ICD bulbs 24/7 they don't last very long.

These are my porch / driveway lights. On for a few hours in the evening and a few in the morning. On a timer. A bit longer in winter and shorter in summer. Average sixnour seven hours per day. The coach light is on continuously from dusk to dawn.

 

[davel]

How are they in regard to the spectrum they put out? One of my peeves with CFLs is that the light spectrum is so much different than incandescents which can screw up the appearance of some colors.

 

[Marc_G]

The CREE bulb I got is definitely bluer than the plain soft white incandescent bulb on the other side of the door. That's a good thing as I never really liked the spectrum of standard light bulbs.

 

[jef955]

I have an LED spotlight out in our back yard. It's been there about 3 years and IIRC I got it from Walmart. I have a small yard, and use it often letting our dog out. I think its 11 watts but don't hold me too it. I have noticed no change in color or brightness. Weather varies from 20's low end with some snow to maybe high 90's in the summer. Very happy with it. Cost maybe 15-20 bucks.

 

[boomtube]

LED bulbs along with CFLs suffer from the same technological flaw. They don’t operate on AC or household level voltages. Therefore each and every one of them has to incorporate a step-down transformer and an AC/DC rectifier circuit.
This electronics package more than anything else limits their operational lifetime.

As these types of lighting sources become more and more prevalent there should be some attempt to include home outlets that provide the lower DC voltage these things require.

Then there would only need to be on step-down X-former and a single AC/DC converter and that system could be built with substantially more robust components than can be fitted into the base of a screw-in light bulb.

 

[JPVegh]

How are they in regard to the spectrum they put out? One of my peeves with CFLs is that the light spectrum is so much different than incandescents which can screw up the appearance of some colors.

CFLs are now available in various colors from about 2700K (very warm orange-yellow) to 12,000K (very cool blue-violet). They are not all the bluish-white tint that they used to be. I have mostly 3300-3500K bulbs in my house which IMO are closests to the cheap incadescents that I used to buy. I do have a few bulbs in the 5000-6500K range that approximate daylite which I find is best in my reading lamps. I also have 10,000K bulbs in one of my aquairums that really make the colors of fish pop.

 

[AlexK]

The LED is definitely the superior solution for your problem. CFLs are brighter (it's hard to get LEDs larger than 60W equivalent unless you get a physically large bulb) but have the same issue as incandescents - hot glass. Except with CFLs, that hot glass contains a mercury plasma and associated toxic hazard if it ever broke. CFLs are also really ornery to start when it's really cold - in those Indiana winters they will take forever to get going, since the mercury isn't going to want to evaporate and contribute to the discharge. Since the LED doesn't rely on a plasma and doesn't have any really hot parts it'll likely handle spray much better than a CFL. Both bulb types have electronics which may not like being in an enclosed space - CFLs are particularly bad in that regard, but LEDs should be better since they draw less power overall, and the bulb itself isn't getting nearly as hot as a CFL tube.

Color reproduction is 100% a function of the phosphors that Cree used in the bulb itself (most white LEDs are really ultraviolet with phosphors). You're never going to truly reproduce the spectrum of an incandescent lamp (2700K blackbody) with phosphors, but modern bulbs are getting better all the time - or you can go with 'daylight,' 'white,' 'sunlight,' or whatever looks good to you.

I wish I had personal experience to relay, but most of my lighting tends to be with 100W bulbs or their equivalents, and I haven't seen an LED that will produce that much light without being too large to fit various fixtures. I've had several CFLs go bad when I had them in funny orientations or enclosed (spotlights) or related - but when in a 'standard' lamp fixture they seem to last pretty much forever. I expect LEDs will be much the same.

 

[bobkrech]

superbrightleds.com is a webstore with a good assortment of LED lighting solutions. LEDs are very efficient in making visible light. While your typical incandescent bulb is generating 3 watts of visible light for 100 watts of wall plug power, the best LED lamps are getting >25 watts optical output for 100 watts of wall plug power, so you can save 90% of your electrical costs and get the same intensity of light. Also the typical incandescent build last not more than 2,000 hours so a 30,000-50,000 hour LED lamps saves a lot of labor costs as well.

LEDs are quite a bit different than CFLs. They are 100% solid state so they don't have the fragile bulbs that CFLs have and they contain no mercury. They will also last several times longer than CFLs if mounted according to the instructions.

The common problem with both LED and CFL lamps is the lifetime of the capacitors in the power converters. A CFL should last 20,000 hours and a LED lamp should last 50,000+ hours, however the capacitors in the base are not always selected correctly by the engineers designing them. Electrolytic capacitors do not like high temperatures, and in poorly engineered power supplies, the internal temperatures can reach 130 C. Even if a 90 C electrolytic capacitor is used in that design, the lifetimes can be as short as 1,000 to 2,000 hours. Good engineering design can hold the temperature down to 70 C and easily get by the 50,000 hour typical lifetime published for most of the LED lamps. So when you purchase them, keep the slip and watch the hours as most are warranted to a certain lifetime and years of service. You can get free replacements if they fall short of their specified lifetimes.

White LED lamps are similar to CFL bulbs in how they generate white light. A fluorescent built converts the the near UV output of mercury vapor emission into visible light via a coating of fluorescent pigment. The chemical composition of the pigment mixture determines the whiteness of the light. Similar coating are used in LED lamps, however the most common white LED lamps employ a blue LEd and a slightly different composition of fluorescent material.

Another minor issue is to make sure that the LED bulb is rated for the environment you are using it in. For example there are LED PAR style floodlights identical to the incandescent ones in form factor, but not all are rated for external use because they are not waterproof.

In general, however, you will be pleased with them as they will say you a lot of money in the long run, and will require a lot less maintenance.

Bob

 

[Marc_G]

Thanks for all the info, guys!

I will buy a second identical CREE bulb, and install it in the fixture on the other side of the door, so that the spectrum color of both bulbs matches and looks better. Then, I will use up my stash of 100 W incandescent bulbs in the three other similar fixtures outside while testing the longevity of the CREE bulbs for this application. If I run out of incandescent bulbs before either of CREE bulbs pop, I'll have my answer about which way to go.

This was a very interesting discussion, and I thank you all. I'll report back once there's something to report...

Marc

 

[GDJ]

I first converted all the incandescence to CFL when my family and I moved into our current house 7 years ago, and now I've been converting all the CFL lights to LED's.

CFL's are great if they get left on for over 30 minutes, but the constant on-off-on-off (bathroom for example) kills them within a year. Sometimes less. Also CFL's hate moisture. Also CFL lights are completely useless up here in the winter as a outdoor light. They simply won't fire and light past -15C temperatures.

I have these in the bathrooms (4 lamp strip above the mirrors) and above the dining room table under a simple 3 lamp chandelier:

Nice and bright, pretty durable after 2 years of use so far. Moisture does not affect them at all. Not really cheap here ($25 per light) but with a 25,000 hour life, it will be the last bulbs I'll buy for the house before moving out.


Also bought these to go inside light fixtures on the ceiling:

They are butt-ugly. FUGLY! But if you like light, these babies will fill a bedroom easily with just one. Two is actually too bright. Better for the garage or work station. Cheaper than the globe lights, but still kinda expensive at $18 per light. 28,000 to 30,000 hours depending on model.

In short, LED's are not a cheap alternative in the short run, but if you are going to live in a place over 3 years, do it and don't look back.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I have CFL's in most of the fixtures in the house. I have had very good life in the bathroom, even with constant on-off cycles. However, the bulbs are completely enclosed in glass balls. The only problems I have are short life in fixtures where the CFL's are burning base up, even when using the 'ceiling fan' rated ones. Haven't changed any to LEDs yet, too expensive for the brightness.

 

[davel]

IRT output spectrum, I found the following since my last post on the subject. Color temperature does not tell the whole story. When viewing the bulbs in the link, click on "View Larger" to see the actual spectrum. None of them are very similar to the good old incandescent.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/te...t-fluorescent-vs-led-ultimate-light-bulb-test

Screwed up colors has keep me away from CFLs.

 

[GDJ]

I have CFL's in most of the fixtures in the house. I have had very good life in the bathroom, even with constant on-off cycles. However, the bulbs are completely enclosed in glass balls. The only problems I have are short life in fixtures where the CFL's are burning base up, even when using the 'ceiling fan' rated ones. Haven't changed any to LEDs yet, too expensive for the brightness.

The CFL's I used in the bathroom were also enclosed in glass balls. The best CFL's we own are the conventional non-enclosed models with lots of airspace for cooling.
However, the glass ball CFL's in the kitchen and dining room lived for quite some time.

Perhaps my globe CFL's were overheating in the bathroom?