Documenting The Estes OMEGA (K-52/K-52P/1200) Variants

[Incongruent]

Yea, I though about that too. Estes isn't going to buy someone else's product, because then either their margins or sales will be lower. But can't they sell a rocket and label it "Requires 808 camera to film" or something?

 

[K'Tesh]

Yea, I though about that too. Estes isn't going to buy someone else's product, because then either their margins or sales will be lower. But can't they sell a rocket and label it "Requires 808 camera to film" or something?

The problem is the size of the 808 camera. To get the 808 camera to go inside of a casing cleanly will require some disassembly of the camera, or a really large diameter body tube, unless they get really clever with mirrors and lenses. I doubt that they'd want to do that.

 

[Tramper Al]

Yea, I though about that too. Estes isn't going to buy someone else's product, because then either their margins or sales will be lower. But can't they sell a rocket and label it "Requires 808 camera to film" or something?

Just to point out the obvious, though.
1) Estes has in fact been selling "someone else's camera" along with their Estes-branded flying camera drones, currently the Proto-X and Kodo. Is there any reason these same systems could not be easily adapted and incorporated into a rocket design?
2) I believe that to this day the single largest selling rocket kit remains the Astrocam.
3) Ready-to-fly is king, right? The majority of buyers out there are thought to want it designed, built, and flyable right out of the box. Even sourcing a gum cam from China and strapping it onto your Big Bertha with a rubber band is too much effort for some. And not much profit for Estes. So put the Kodo camera with memory card into a photo-themed livery PS-II E2X model, or available separately in a camera nose cone unit or payload section. Good to go.
We're not the only ones who would buy this.

 

[Initiator001]

2) I believe that to this day the single largest selling rocket kit remains the Astrocam.

After I saw this post I contacted someone I know at Estes and asked what has been/is the best selling kit.

The reply:

"…BB and the 1225 Alpha…hands down…" (BB=Big Bertha)

 

[Tramper Al]

Yes, I may have that one wrong (I heard that rumor right here), though would you accept that the Astrocam has been a big seller in its prime time?

I would also note that, their having discontinued 3 camera rockets in 2008, we are now in the longest (8 year) period without a production camera rocket in Estes company history. This, at a time when cameras have never been cheaper, smaller, or lighter, and the hugely popular social media sites are full of silly, poor quality photos we all take of our own faces and far less interesting activities than aerial photography and model rocketry.

There are, however, a half dozen rocket kits for sale today, from Estes and others, designed/marketed to carry raw eggs. I'm just saying.

 

[Tramper Al]

If anyone is interested, the only dedicated camera rocket in production today - that I am aware of - comes from Heavenly Hobbies. They don't make the camera, but they do sell it. The rocket is designed around this camera, though I think not terribly well (aft payload!). Estes could do far better in a heartbeat, I would think.

https://store.heavenlyhobbies.com/01-023-0009.html

 

[K'Tesh]

Yes, I may have that one wrong (I heard that rumor right here), though would you accept that the Astrocam has been a big seller in its prime time?

I would also note that, their having discontinued 3 camera rockets in 2008, we are now in the longest (8 year) period without a production camera rocket in Estes company history. This, at a time when cameras have never been cheaper, smaller, or lighter, and the hugely popular social media sites are full of silly, poor quality photos we all take of our own faces and far less interesting activities than aerial photography and model rocketry.

There are, however, a half dozen rocket kits for sale today, from Estes and others, designed/marketed to carry raw eggs. I'm just saying.

Mike Dorffler was the designer of both the Cineroc, and the Astrocam 110. Over on YORF, he had a series of posts (Ask Mike) that responded to people's questions about his experience at Estes. Among that he said in post 188...

The Astrocam started off intended as purely a hobby item. But our marketing guys showed it to the mass accounts who wanted it as a starter outfit. While you guys bought and used them in different boosters and different motors, the mass side ordered and sold a staggering 50K of them nearly every year until just a few years ago. Let me repeat that...50,000 Astocams PER YEAR....one of the greatest money making products in the history of Estes Industries.

In a phone conversation with one of my contacts in Estes last week, we talked about film cameras (both the Cineroc, and Astrocams) and I was told that as 110 film is no longer being sold in many locations that there's no reason for Estes to produce it or another film camera. While we did talk about bringing back the Omega, I was told that since eRockets.biz/Semroc is producing their version of it, there is no reason for Estes to produce it too. Carl and Estes had an agreement that if Estes wanted to bring back a classic rocket that Semroc was producing, they'd tell Carl of their intentions, and Semroc would cease production. The only reason the Goblin made it out at the same time as Semroc did was that Estes's was already in production and on the boat when Semroc announced theirs. Randy (eRockets.biz) has not been approached about Estes bring backs.

 

[Tramper Al]

Good stuff K'Tesh. While cloning of rockets like Astron Delta and Omega is certainly feasible, especially with help from Semroc, as you know re-approximating the camera modules is an order of magnitude more challenging. I wasn't really thinking in terms of a Cineroc (digital) reissue, though of course that would be cool, but rather a new stand-alone plastic photographic nose case or payload module, with Chinese partner-supplied camera-memory card-USB connector, that used a common Estes BT size. In that way it could be sold on a designated camera carrier (RTF and/or traditional build) as well as being easily adaptable for use on a wide range of rockets, low/mid power, F-G PSII, staged, glider(?) and so on.

 

[Tramper Al]

Also, with the original purpose of this thread in mine, I took a quick look at my K-52P kit this morning. It has a payload section and white plastic nosecone which is open at the bottom. I think it is a blue tag. It is sealed, so I can't see instructions and such, but I will open it at some point. I couldn't quite follow above to know if my kit is unusual or at all helpful for the archives. I can look in more detail if needed.

Finally, someone just kindly directed me to Tango Papa for decals, and I see there distinct listings for Astron Omega and Omega rockets. Does anyone know how these would differ? Thanks.

 

[K'Tesh]

Also, with the original purpose of this thread in mine, I took a quick look at my K-52P kit this morning. It has a payload section and white plastic nosecone which is open at the bottom. I think it is a blue tag. It is sealed, so I can't see instructions and such, but I will open it at some point. I couldn't quite follow above to know if my kit is unusual or at all helpful for the archives. I can look in more detail if needed.

Finally, someone just kindly directed me to Tango Papa for decals, and I see there distinct listings for Astron Omega and Omega rockets. Does anyone know how these would differ? Thanks.

Hi Al,

About the kit, a photo of the facecard, and the back of the kit would be useful to me if it's still in the bag. If it's not, photos of the nosecone would still be useful presuming that it's the injection molded version. I am certain that it was released with the blow molded nosecone in white plastic. There's a possibility it was sent out at some time with a black blow molded nosecone, but I've never seen an example of that.

I made arrangements for Tom (Tango Papa) to get an authentic set of decals to color match with, but I'm not sure it's been sent yet (Doug is currently teaching, and going to school himself, and it's nearly the end of the term). I did provide Tom with the color analysis that I had done with Home Depot to see if he could color match it with a paint chip. You might want to email him directly, and ask about the decals. He's been provided with my findings on the body tube decal, and the Cineroc's camera body decal (fonts to use, size, etc...) and has created a file for it (including the DV, which could be cut away for a completely authentic appearance). I have yet to be able to order a set, due to my dud of a first job here in China, and the long wait I've had to endure due to the time I started at my new job, and the difference in its pay schedule. In 6 more days, I'll get my first full paycheck here.

 

[K'Tesh]

Well, since I have them... I'll post these rather than risk losing them again due to something weird.

Blue "Fly Estes" hang tag, K-52P with white injection molded nosecone.


Source unknown (Ebay most likely)

Two different versions of the K-52's face card and contents (possibly open bag).

Source unknown (Ebay most likely)

 

[Forever_Metal]

After I saw this post I contacted someone I know at Estes and asked what has been/is the best selling kit.

The reply:

"…BB and the 1225 Alpha…hands down…" (BB=Big Bertha)

think I've built 5 or 6 of those Berthas... Always my goto, even with the HPR stuff being "cooler", I built a BB in-between my L1 & L2 and had a blast (kids thought I was weird).

fm

 

[K'Tesh]

These images are from an eBay auction that just ended (I didn't win)... However, I asked the seller, for his blessing to use them here, and this is what he sent:

What we have here is an early K-52P in a configuration I've never seen before:

Yellow Hang Tag
black and white image of the kit with white payload section on the face card.
Black injection molded nosecone
Orange Sunburst parachute
Tape strips rather than tape disks.




Photo credits: Tom Augustyn

I've noted that the kit says that it uses D12 motors. So, that puts it after the period that the D13s were being used. I'm still researching to see if I can pin down its date a little tighter than post 1971.

 

[Tramper Al]

Yes, $170 shipped. At least we got some cool photos, thanks.

There is an Astron Delta right now that is only $258 obo!

 

[K'Tesh]

Yes, $170 shipped. At least we got some cool photos, thanks.

There is an Astron Delta right now that is only $258 obo!

Whoever got it, I'd like to know if it has a 2nd eye bolt (one for the balsa coupler, and one for the nosecone), and the bulkhead for the nosecone.