At what point do you add a tracker?

[ksaves2]

A little correction to the above. I am a HAM and when I purchased my Marshall set up, I ordered it on 70cm. It spits out my callsign every ten minutes. No skirting the laws here. No pretending I am tracking wildlife. I am all cool with the Feds and that was an important consideration to me.

My first stupid mistake as a Ham was ignoring the mode issue and getting a 1.25m Alinco DJ296 (FM only) thinking I would be able to receive on the tracking bands. El stupido move. Fortunately was a repeater nearby on 220Mhz so it wasn't a total loss.

Later got a TH-F6A that can do a decent job of monitoring the tracker bands. Kurt

 

[grouch]

My first stupid mistake as a HAM was to think I could actually hear something interesting on the local repeaters. For the most part they are tied up with a unseen "club" of old men who talk about their bursitis and complain about everything under the sun. They had little interest in speaking to anyone else about anything else. I tried to do some 2M DXing simplex after that, crickets. It wasn't until I got my tracker that I really found a use for my tech ticket.

 

[DRAGON64]

I'm currently working on a rocket and I'm wondering if I should use some kind of tracker. It's an Adventurer 3 kit from Rocketry Warehouse. I've got most of the work on the actual rocket done, but I can't seem to work up any enthusiasm for putting the electronics bay together. Part of the problem is that I intended to use the Eggfinder TRS I bought last year in it, but I hate soldering so it's not put together yet.

I was thinking maybe I'd just use my RRC2+ instead, and put together a second sled later with the Eggfinder.

OpenRocket shows about 10,000 feet with the biggest motor I'm likely to put in it, would you recommend a tracker at that point, or should it be okay without one?

Track it! And show some pics of your build (in the HPR forum), would love to see how your Adventurer3 turned out. I am slowly bringing mine to speed.

 

[ksaves2]

My first stupid mistake as a HAM was to think I could actually hear something interesting on the local repeaters. For the most part they are tied up with a unseen "club" of old men who talk about their bursitis and complain about everything under the sun. They had little interest in speaking to anyone else about anything else. I tried to do some 2M DXing simplex after that, crickets. It wasn't until I got my tracker that I really found a use for my tech ticket.

Unfortunate, On my end I hear the old guys talk about the radio of old and different rigs. Actually quite interesting. Anyone is welcomed on the nets. I've enjoyed chatting with a fellow in Tahiti on a 100 foot wire strung in some trees on 12 meters with 100 watts. Amazing what can be done if conditions are right. But yeah, I did it so I could track rockets. Eight years ago, the Ham options were more economical than the commercial options especially when it came to GPS tracking. Kurt

 

[Coop]

To the question asked in the thread topic:

"When economically feasible."

Later!

--Coop

 

[Wayco]

I'm currently working on a rocket and I'm wondering if I should use some kind of tracker. It's an Adventurer 3 kit from Rocketry Warehouse. I've got most of the work on the actual rocket done, but I can't seem to work up any enthusiasm for putting the electronics bay together. Part of the problem is that I intended to use the Eggfinder TRS I bought last year in it, but I hate soldering so it's not put together yet.

I was thinking maybe I'd just use my RRC2+ instead, and put together a second sled later with the Eggfinder.

OpenRocket shows about 10,000 feet with the biggest motor I'm likely to put in it, would you recommend a tracker at that point, or should it be okay without one?

The Eggfinder TRS is the toughest kit to solder. I have built two Eggtimers, six Eggfinder TX's and two Eggfinder RX's. I tried to build the TRS and failed. Shipped it to Conner and he couldn't fix it, but he built me another one and it works fine. I prefer to mount my Eggfinders in the N/C, and keep my altimeters in the avbay coupler. Never heard of an Eggfinder interfering with an altimeter, but when you're dealing with RF, anything is possible. I have six rockets that fly regularly over 10k ft. All of them have Eggfinders in the N/C and redundant altimeters. I tape a CSI tracker to the drogue cord, but it's mostly used to determine a successful drogue deployment at apogee.
If you want your rocket back, put a tracker in it. I have been flying Eggfinders for about two years, literally dozens of flights in all kinds of conditions and walked or drove right up to my rocket every time.

 

[ksaves2]

The Eggfinder TRS is the toughest kit to solder. I have built two Eggtimers, six Eggfinder TX's and two Eggfinder RX's. I tried to build the TRS and failed. Shipped it to Conner and he couldn't fix it, but he built me another one and it works fine. I prefer to mount my Eggfinders in the N/C, and keep my altimeters in the avbay coupler. Never heard of an Eggfinder interfering with an altimeter, but when you're dealing with RF, anything is possible. I have six rockets that fly regularly over 10k ft. All of them have Eggfinders in the N/C and redundant altimeters. I tape a CSI tracker to the drogue cord, but it's mostly used to determine a successful drogue deployment at apogee.
If you want your rocket back, put a tracker in it. I have been flying Eggfinders for about two years, literally dozens of flights in all kinds of conditions and walked or drove right up to my rocket every time.

Need good splinter tweezers, light, head magnifier and the finest tipped soldering iron like this one: https://www.wlenk.com/store/111/48/25-Watt-Soldering-Iron-Kit.html. The fine tip is lower right. I broke the Sirf 4 GPS off the base when the freshly built EF tracker fell off the windowsill during a test. Ouch!! Salvaged it with an aftermarket Ublox receiver after it sat in a junk box for months. Also dorked a Sirf 4 GPS receiver when I got solder on the inside of the base. Stupidhead move. I built two TRS units but it is tedious and they both worked right off the bat. It is best to get some SMT kits under ones belt. The remote switch is a good start and for $20.00 the Quark is a great step up.
I assemble in a clear pyrex baking pan as if you flip a chip, good chance it will land in the dish for recovery. I've built about 10 of these kits and only lost one resistor because of the setup. Since I had many leftovers that one "loss" didn't hold me up. Kurt

 

[tim cubbedge]

The Eggfinder TRS is the toughest kit to solder.

Why is that?

 

[llickteig1]

The Eggfinder TRS is the toughest kit to solder. I have built two Eggtimers, six Eggfinder TX's and two Eggfinder RX's. I tried to build the TRS and failed. Shipped it to Conner and he couldn't fix it, but he built me another one and it works fine. I prefer to mount my Eggfinders in the N/C, and keep my altimeters in the avbay coupler. Never heard of an Eggfinder interfering with an altimeter, but when you're dealing with RF, anything is possible. I have six rockets that fly regularly over 10k ft. All of them have Eggfinders in the N/C and redundant altimeters. I tape a CSI tracker to the drogue cord, but it's mostly used to determine a successful drogue deployment at apogee.
If you want your rocket back, put a tracker in it. I have been flying Eggfinders for about two years, literally dozens of flights in all kinds of conditions and walked or drove right up to my rocket every time.

It is a darn shame the Eggfinder people don't sell a complete, built and operational version of their system. I cannot and will not ever build kit electronics, particularly for use in rocketry where the safety of people and property or the recovery of several hundred dollars of my investment are at stake.

I have far more money than time or ability to solder tiny electronics. I understand that folks want something affordable and bless the Eggfinder people for providing that. I want something that works when I open the package and I am more than willing to pay the market value for it.

Just my $0.02. I'm probably in the minority. I think they are missing out on a legitimate and significant portion of their potential customer base. In fact, I haven't even taken much time to check it out because I know it is out of my grasp due to being a kit.

--Lance.

 

[noffie79]

It is a darn shame the Eggfinder people don't sell a complete, built and operational version of their system. I cannot and will not ever build kit electronics, particularly for use in rocketry where the safety of people and property or the recovery of several hundred dollars of my investment are at stake.

I have far more money than time or ability to solder tiny electronics. I understand that folks want something affordable and bless the Eggfinder people for providing that. I want something that works when I open the package and I am more than willing to pay the market value for it.

Just my $0.02. I'm probably in the minority. I think they are missing out on a legitimate and significant portion of their potential customer base. In fact, I haven't even taken much time to check it out because I know it is out of my grasp due to being a kit.

--Lance.

I agree 100%

 

[ksaves2]

I agree 100%

Conman13 was building them but said he was taking a summer sabbatical. Lance, you're talking about liabilty when commercially built stuff fails and people screw up all the time setting it up? Sheesh, that's what the distance intervals are for.
If one does super high "G" flights they're likely to rip components off a any commercial built board unless potted in epoxy or the bulk of the components are SMT.

I can appreciate if one is handicapped and can't build but really, it isn't that bad as long as one invests $50.00 in the right stuff. If you build rockets you ought to be able to cut a plastic case to mount an EggFinder receiver.

Nice pictures here: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?121027-Eggfinder-Pictorial-build

If you really want someone to build it you could check and see if Connor is going to be starting up again. His prices were very reasonable: https://eggassembly.webs.com/

EggTimer rocketry is a one man operation and the owner has priced assembly and it's pretty costly. I can see his point.

Still can't go with it? Get one of Greg's 900Mhz Beeline GPS trackers and you'll be all set. Only issue is you crash a BLGPS and it's a Big Owie. Crash an EggFinder and it's $70.00. A lot less.

Kurt

 

[KenECoyote]

It is a darn shame the Eggfinder people don't sell a complete, built and operational version of their system.

I could be wrong, but I thought I read that it was because once it's assembled, you would need a special license (or something like that) to sell it. The way it's being done, the FCC doesn't get involved. Apologies if this is incorrect.

I bought my first soldering iron in Elementary school (and no...I didn't retake any grades) to fix a small radio and since then I've only soldered on rare occasion; however I just ordered an Eggfinder set and I'm going to approach it much like building rockets...see it as an adventure, a chance to learn and improve and to build something so I can say I built it. I might warm up by making better solder joints in some of the cheap window alarms I got at the dollar store (for $1!) so that they'll be less likely to break in flight - they make cheap audio location alarms for my small rockets.

 

[KenECoyote]

If you really want someone to build it you could check and see if Connor is going to be starting up again. His prices were very reasonable: https://eggassembly.webs.com/

Actually, last posting from Conman noted:
"I"M DONE FOR NOW.I'm 16 so my summers are pretty packed with hanging out with friends at my lake house on lake George, Rockets are the least of my priorities. Due to this my "products" and service have become sub par. I will be picking up again after summer is over and I'm not busy.All current orders will be fulfilled so don't fret if you've already contacted me."
Thread:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ketry-Products-Assembly&p=1482309#post1482309

It's too bad since he offered a great service for us; however I'd guess he'll be back on in September.

 

[cerving]

Our philosophy is that by offering kits we can give you the best value for your dollar. They're not for everybody, especially the GPS trackers, but I have found that there is a large proportion of the rocketry community that has no problem soldering things together. If you're doing electronic deployments, at some point or another you're going to have to start soldering anyway.

 

[llickteig1]

Our philosophy is that by offering kits we can give you the best value for your dollar. They're not for everybody, especially the GPS trackers, but I have found that there is a large proportion of the rocketry community that has no problem soldering things together. If you're doing electronic deployments, at some point or another you're going to have to start soldering anyway.

No.

I've been in HPR since 1999 and fly dual deploy on virtually every flight I make. What do I have to solder? Nothing. All my altimeters have come pre-built and tested. Even if I did, it wouldn't be small components to PCBs.

I'm sure you are doing what you feel is best for your company and your products.

--Lance.

 

[bluerue]

From personal experience I'll be tracking everything... EVERYTHING from here on out. My DX3 was lost in Argonia, only went 3k feet but with the wind probably drifted a mile on drouge and another few when the main popped at 500ft. 12 guys helped look after the launch and we found nothing. Sad thing was... I had a radio tracker in my launch box and decided not to use it because I thought... it's only going 3000 feet, I'll be able to visually track it.

I love Bob Brown's answer to the question, should I use a tracker? He just asks, Do you want your rocket back? If so, put a tracker in it.

-Aaron

 

[KenECoyote]

I could be wrong, but I thought I read that it was because once it's assembled, you would need a special license (or something like that) to sell it. The way it's being done, the FCC doesn't get involved. Apologies if this is incorrect.

*Update* I found the verification of what I said earlier:

Conman13 (Connor) noted in his assembly thread that Chris said:
"Eggfinders are not certified by the FCC, they do not have to be because they are kits. (The other exemption from certification is for Part 95 "Ham" radio transmitters, which is why almost all of the transmitters on the market require Ham licenses... it saves the manufacturers about $10,000 per device for certification). If you assemble the kit and sell them as a finished product, the FCC requires YOU to certify them, since you now become a "producer" of those devices."

Here's the thread (Post #3):
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...try-Products-Assembly&highlight=eggfinder+fcc

So sorry if I somehow misinterpreted this, but it is what I read. Also I realize this is not a direct quote.

Thanks!

 

[KenECoyote]

I like that Eggfinder offers you the choice to go the kit route (if you want to)...you can build it as you want and customize it (long range antenna, sure!) and best of all...save money! Also if you're not an electronics expert, you can try your hand at it and then later tell others you've built it. Of course I haven't assembled one of these yet, but I'm optimistic and imagining a great success!

 

[KenRico]

EGGfinders rock ! They will get me to 20k i am sure.
And the price is right..a TX is less than a comspec.

Kenny

 

[ksaves2]

I like that Eggfinder offers you the choice to go the kit route (if you want to)...you can build it as you want and customize it (long range antenna, sure!) and best of all...save money! Also if you're not an electronics expert, you can try your hand at it and then later tell others you've built it. Of course I haven't assembled one of these yet, but I'm optimistic and imagining a great success!

Get the stuff I mentioned plus a fine toothless angled pickups (tweezers) Build in a flat pan and be careful when removing the components out of the strips they're packed in. For the SMT stuff, tin one of the pads with a very thin layer of solder.
You don't have to gob it on. Place and hold with your pickups (tweezers) and hit the tinned pad with the iron to get the component to "stick". Let cool and then I go to the other side and solder it in with a bit of a "gob". Not a giant mass but a little bubble that'll hold it securely to the board. Let cool and go back to the other side to add a little more solder to the side you just tacked down to get a more substantial connection.

One advantage to the SMT stuff is, lower mass and lower profile equals higher G resistance. Me thinks the Quark will operate in high G environments nicely.

Lance, I've taken to solder wires to terminals and epoxy them to bulkheads so I've been soldering since day one when I started in '06. You can avoid it if you want but it's a good skill to have.
Wished I had asked my grandpa to teach me to weld while he was alive. Worked for the gas company for 48 years and was a master welder and plumber. (Gas pipes? Water pipes? they're about the same. Cept a gas leak can kill ya.) Kurt

 

[KenECoyote]

Get the stuff I mentioned plus a fine toothless angled pickups (tweezers) Build in a flat pan and be careful when removing the components out of the strips they're packed in. For the SMT stuff, tin one of the pads with a very thin layer of solder.
You don't have to gob it on. Place and hold with your pickups (tweezers) and hit the tinned pad with the iron to get the component to "stick". Let cool and then I go to the other side and solder it in with a bit of a "gob". Not a giant mass but a little bubble that'll hold it securely to the board. Let cool and go back to the other side to add a little more solder to the side you just tacked down to get a more substantial connection.

One advantage to the SMT stuff is, lower mass and lower profile equals higher G resistance. Me thinks the Quark will operate in high G environments nicely.

Lance, I've taken to solder wires to terminals and epoxy them to bulkheads so I've been soldering since day one when I started in '06. You can avoid it if you want but it's a good skill to have.
Wished I had asked my grandpa to teach me to weld while he was alive. Worked for the gas company for 48 years and was a master welder and plumber. (Gas pipes? Water pipes? they're about the same. Cept a gas leak can kill ya.) Kurt

Thanks for the tips Kurt! How about flux? I'd forgotten that years ago I did a spate of soldering since I was changing a lot of my RC connections for servos and such to deans plugs in order to standardize...I had a bugger of a time until I started using flux.

 

[ksaves2]

Thanks for the tips Kurt! How about flux? I'd forgotten that years ago I did a spate of soldering since I was changing a lot of my RC connections for servos and such to deans plugs in order to standardize...I had a bugger of a time until I started using flux.

The developer of the kits supplies the solder and doesn't recommend flux. When I get a new soldering tip for a soldering iron, I'll wrap the end of the tip in solder and put a little flux on the solder. I let 'er warm up so the solder melts and tins the tip for first time use. I have to confess, I sometimes will put a tiny bit on a pad but not consistently. Most of the time I just use the solder Cris provides. It's more important to clean the tip with steel wool or copper plated wool when it gets a bit grotey. I use a holder something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FZPGDLA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Bought mine from a cheap electrical supplier "cut-out" sale. Also wipe the tip quickly on a wet sponge and keep the tip tinned with solder. Don't forget a head magnifier and a good light.

Other specific advice for building EggTimer kits. I of course download the build instructions and all the build photos in a sequential order. I pull up the instruction PDF and use an image viewer and the photos. I can minimize the instructions and pull up the corresponding build photos. Go back and minimize the photo program to refer back to the instructions. Some of the photos are a "little" out of focus but can be enlarged to see the writing on the chip if you're uncertain of the chip orientation. One can see enough of the writing to get it right. You can go "back and forth" with ease from the PDF reader with the instructions and viewer program for the manually downloaded pictures. I did the last three Quark builds and a remote switch on a Nexus 7 2013. I liked using my fingers to blow stuff up on the pictures. Really easy!!

The only "really" danger zone is getting the parts out of the little tape covered packets without flipping them around. That's why I build in a square glass baking dish. Loosen the tape with a hobby knife (be careful and don't stick yourself) and hold it down in the dish so it drops in there or on top of the board. I've flicked a few resistors but found 'em. I only lost one in the junk hardware I had sitting in my building area plate.
There are extra resistors included in the kits but not for some of the capacitors (be careful with those) and the multipinned SMT components. Use your pickups (tweezers) to position the part once it's out of the package

Oh, get some copper solder removal braid: https://www.zoro.com/soder-wick-bra...gclid=CPuG2v3GlccCFYcdgQodf98OZg&gclsrc=aw.ds

Just in case. Comes in handy if you get a bridge. I've only had that happen a couple of times and it was readily seen so I could clean it up before I moved on. That is were a very fine tip is helpful on the soldering iron.

GPS receiver advice. Cris' instructions are good. It's a tedious device to get in and is the only one I screwed up once....... And it was my own fault. I wanted to experiment with the board with a different outboard GPS receiver. Did so by soldering one wire to the input pad and used the 3.3V supply terminals on the EggFinder to power the device. When I was done playing around (it worked ok), I desoldered, cleaned up that pads and found out it was an absolute bear to install the
Sirf 4 Maestro GPS receiver on the board with the other parts mounted around it. I accidentally splashed solder in the base of the GPS and that was it!! Got it off the board and now it uses an outboard GPS receiver permanently.

If you hold up the Maestro GPS receiver, you will see there is a slot between the antenna and the base of the chip where the solder pads are located. Well.............Stupidhead learned to just apply a strip of tape to help
prevent solder from splashing in there!! You have to be a real klutz to slop a glob as I was when trying to get around a populated board but the tape will allow the glob to "bounce off".

Bottom line is if one assembles the EggFinder or TRS in the order recommended in the instructions, there shouldn't be any issues. Kurt

 

[KenECoyote]

Thanks in advance for all the great tips Kurt! Much appreciated!