Astronaut Loses Tool Bag During Repair

shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Wildman Rocketry
the model rocket show
The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
adrian

adrian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
2,395
Reaction score
37
Oops...

https://news.aol.com/article/astronaut-loses-tool-bag-during-repair/248995
The briefcase-sized tool bag drifted away from astronaut Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper on Tuesday as she cleaned and lubed a gummed-up joint on a wing of solar panels on the space station. The tool bag was one of the largest items ever lost by a spacewalker.
She and fellow astronaut Stephen Bowen were midway through the first of four spacewalks when the bag was lost.
As Stefanyshyn-Piper cleaned up a large gob of grease that seeped from a gun used to lubricate the joint, the tool case somehow became untethered from a larger bag and floated away along with a pair of grease guns, wipes and a putty knife attached to it.
Click to expand...
 
According to the article the tool bag was already 2.5 miles ahead of the space station by late Tuesday. It must have had a small negative delta-v as it flew away from the space station. This would make it's orbital period slightly shorter than the space station's, which will cause it to move further ahead each orbit.

I would guess that it's orbit will decay faster than the space station's orbit, so there should not be any problem with a collision. The space station must be boosted every few months to maintain its orbit.

Dave
 
DaveHein said:
According to the article the tool bag was already 2.5 miles ahead of the space station by late Tuesday. It must have had a small negative delta-v as it flew away from the space station. This would make it's orbital period slightly shorter than the space station's, which will cause it to move further ahead each orbit.

I would guess that it's orbit will decay faster than the space station's orbit, so there should not be any problem with a collision. The space station must be boosted every few months to maintain its orbit.

Dave
Click to expand...

The problem won't be to the space station, but to it's future support. If the bag shares the same orbital plane as the SS, then anything approaching or leaving must fly past it. The relative velocity between the SS and the tools is fairly small. An approaching Soyuz or shuttle or Aeries would have a greater relative velocities and higher opportunity for damage.

Tether, please. :(
 
It was not just the bag of tools she watched float away; it was the rest of her career.

Mark
 
rangerstl said:
The problem won't be to the space station, but to it's future support. If the bag shares the same orbital plane as the SS, then anything approaching or leaving must fly past it. The relative velocity between the SS and the tools is fairly small. An approaching Soyuz or shuttle or Aeries would have a greater relative velocities and higher opportunity for damage.
Click to expand...
SuitSat lasted for only 7 months before its orbit decayed. SuitSat was an old spacesuit containing an amateur radio transmitter and batteries. It was shoved out of the Space Station on February 3, 2006, and it re-entered the earth's atmosphere on September 7, 2006. I suspect ToolBagSat will have a similar orbital lifetime.

Dave
 
Mark Clark said:
It was not just the bag of tools she watched float away; it was the rest of her career.
Click to expand...

And why do you say that? You think that she's the first one to lose a tool while doing an EVA?
 
DaveHein said:
SuitSat lasted for only 7 months before its orbit decayed. SuitSat was an old spacesuit containing an amateur radio transmitter and batteries. It was shoved out of the Space Station on February 3, 2006, and it re-entered the earth's atmosphere on September 7, 2006. I suspect ToolBagSat will have a similar orbital lifetime.

Dave
Click to expand...

Not to mention, the ISS has to be boosted occasionally to keep itself in that orbit. I know the tool bag isn't as draggy, but it will decay and re-enter eventually. How long, I have no clue. BTW, anybody know offhand how often the ISS has to do its stationkeeping burns?
 
DaveHein said:
...the tool bag was already 2.5 miles ahead of the space station by late Tuesday. It must have had a small negative delta-v as it flew away from the space station.
Click to expand...

from the Associated Press
A spacewalking astronaut accidentally let go of her tool bag Tuesday after a grease gun inside it exploded, and helplessly watched as the tote and everything inside floated away.
Click to expand...

Thinking about Newton's Third Law of Motion, I'm wondering if the grease gun's discharge didn't cause the bag to fly away. Watching the playback from her suitcam, I didn't see her hitting the bag or moving it away from her... so something made it start moving.
 
n5wd said:
And why do you say that? You think that she's the first one to lose a tool while doing an EVA?
Click to expand...

I'm sure they will take a close look and see if it was negligence or an equipment malfunction. Let's hope something broke.
 
tbzep said:
Not to mention, the ISS has to be boosted occasionally to keep itself in that orbit. I know the tool bag isn't as draggy, but it will decay and re-enter eventually. How long, I have no clue. BTW, anybody know offhand how often the ISS has to do its stationkeeping burns?
Click to expand...

One of the articles I've read said that Station loses about 300 feet (90 meters) a day. Judging from this chart:

iss-altitude.gif


it looks like every two to three months or so, they do a burn to raise the altitude.
 
I was watching live when it happened- it was a total accident. The bag had at least one grease gun that had burst, and when she opened it and stuck her hand in expecting to bring out the first item she was met with a real mess. Her first reaction- correctly was to clean off her gloves and while doing so with a dry wipe the bag just worked it's way from her grasp. Remember you cannot feel what you're holding and she was trying to do 3 hands worth of work with just one hand. She made a reach for the bag, but it was just a couple of inches from her reach and moving ever so slowly farther away.

There's no career threat here- at all.
 
well,since none of those tools are gonna survive re-entry,i guess theres no point in standing outside with my net:rotflol:Looks like i'm off to the Depot for a grease gun.
 
Dr.Zooch said:
I was watching live when it happened- it was a total accident. The bag had at least one grease gun that had burst, and when she opened it and stuck her hand in expecting to bring out the first item she was met with a real mess. Her first reaction- correctly was to clean off her gloves and while doing so with a dry wipe the bag just worked it's way from her grasp. Remember you cannot feel what you're holding and she was trying to do 3 hands worth of work with just one hand. She made a reach for the bag, but it was just a couple of inches from her reach and moving ever so slowly farther away.

There's no career threat here- at all.
Click to expand...

That's good news, along with knowing it will decay and re-enter soon.

D-12 Dave has bad news, though. Dave, maybe the grease that's all over it will act as an ablative and the gun will survive. Keep that net handy. :D
 
Dr.Zooch said:
I was watching live when it happened- it was a total accident. The bag had at least one grease gun that had burst, and when she opened it and stuck her hand in expecting to bring out the first item she was met with a real mess. Her first reaction- correctly was to clean off her gloves and while doing so with a dry wipe the bag just worked it's way from her grasp. Remember you cannot feel what you're holding and she was trying to do 3 hands worth of work with just one hand. She made a reach for the bag, but it was just a couple of inches from her reach and moving ever so slowly farther away.

There's no career threat here- at all.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree, it was no accident. Simple fact is she didn't tether the bag. That combined with being one of the largest tools ever lost by a spacewalker will almost certainly change her career. Certainly not an end, more like a path redirection. My guess is she's headed for becoming a trainer.
 
n5wd said:
And why do you say that? You think that she's the first one to lose a tool while doing an EVA?
Click to expand...
It was supposed to be tethered and wasn't. That's a pretty basic FUBAR event. Her fault it wasn't tethered. The worst part is, she's the first woman to lead a spacewalk and she lets a $100,000 bag of tools drift off. Obviously the exploding grease gun had something to do with it, but it should have been tethered. Hard to do a post-mortem when the thing's now a satellite.

On the other hand, Grissom's career did not end when he blew the hatch and sent a used spacecraft to the bottom of the ocean, so maybe she'll survive.

But, it's gonna leave a mark.


tms

ps: sorry the dupe post Boosterdude. I should have refreshed the page before I posted.
 
People make mistakes. Big whoopdee-doo

Doing EVAs for several hours on end is a challenging thing. Believe me, I know (jk, jk). There is physical and mental exhaustion and the current NASA spacesuits are bulky and working with tools and such is supposedly very difficult.

So what? She slipped up. The mission can still be completed and they are getting home.

If we are so critical of people who put their lives on the line, well, we really are just asses and in the end people are going to stop wanting to try to do incredible things as they'll fear ridicule. Give her a break. 99.99995% chance says you cannot do better.
 
2muchstuff said:
It was supposed to be tethered and wasn't. That's a pretty basic FUBAR event. Her fault it wasn't tethered. The worst part is, she's the first woman to lead a spacewalk and she lets a $100,000 bag of tools drift off. Obviously the exploding grease gun had something to do with it, but it should have been tethered. Hard to do a post-mortem when the thing's now a satellite.

On the other hand, Grissom's career did not end when he blew the hatch and sent a used spacecraft to the bottom of the ocean, so maybe she'll survive.

But, it's gonna leave a mark.


tms

ps: sorry the dupe post Boosterdude. I should have refreshed the page before I posted.
Click to expand...


Was the bag supposed to be teathered? I'll be looking for the EVA checklist today and see what it says- I think it's published on NSF in the L2 section. Or if someone out there has a copy- I'm just intrested to know for myself, not making any argument with anyone here.
 
Was it the whole package that became a satellite, or a smaller package inside a main tethered package? I need to find some video footage and have a look tonight.

We do have Gus Grissom on one side, but we have Scott Carpenter on the other. Both were eventually ruled as hardware malfunctions instead of software (brain), but only one never flew again. It will be interesting to see whether she becomes a "Gus" or a "Scott", or if NASA just blows it off as "one of those things that happen sometimes" and only the Monday morning quarterbacks keep it going.
 
The news clip in the first post says it "somehow came unteathered froma a larger bag" well that "somehow" makes a world of difference. how was it teathered in the first place, clip, knot, some othere means? I would imagen that it is rather difficult to tie anything in space suit gloves. I dont think that it is a huge issue, the report said it was the largest object lost durring a walk, not the most expensive, which IMHO is a pretty big difference as well.
 
tbzep said:
We do have Gus Grissom on one side, but we have Scott Carpenter on the other. Both were eventually ruled as hardware malfunctions instead of software (brain), but only one never flew again.
Click to expand...

To derail the thread:

I just read Chris Kraft's autobiography, and from what he writes, the malfunction was clearly the man in Carpenter's case. While there was hardware difficulty, Carpenter failed to report the issues in a timely and accurate fashion until the situation became critical. On the other hand, Grissom turned in a flawless performance that was marred only at the end.

Mind you, this is Kraft's side of the story. I haven't yet read Carpenter's book.
 
Dr.Zooch said:
Was the bag supposed to be teathered? I'll be looking for the EVA checklist today and see what it says- I think it's published on NSF in the L2 section. Or if someone out there has a copy- I'm just intrested to know for myself, not making any argument with anyone here.
Click to expand...
Check out the following article:

https://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h1W8dcUP9H70AmlSfDSenPteDT9gD94IOIN00

I'll quote:

"Astronauts vowed to double-check, even triple-check all their tethers to make sure a bag of tools is properly tied down during a spacewalk Thursday so it doesn't float away like one did earlier this week."

Sure sounds like is was supposed to be tethered.

How about this one:

https://www.physorg.com/news146333452.html

I'll quote:

"The astronaut who lost her tool bag on a spacewalk admits she made a mistake and says she should have checked to make sure it was tied down."

And Graham, I'm not criticizing her. She's an astronaut and they have a culture that is completely different than the rest of us. In her world, tiny mistakes can be fatal. They train for hundreds of hours for every EVA. They have checklists. The next time flight review comes up and lists of astronauts are drawn up, how do you think she'll fare? I'm just indicating the kind of world she lives and works in. That's not criticism, it's reality.

The final sentence of the story above reads:

"She says the hardest part of the ordeal was going back inside the international space station afterward and facing her colleagues. "

The pretty much sums it up.


tms
 
The report at https://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html says that one crewmember did not notice that the toolset was untethered during pre-EVA checks. It was just bad luck that the EVA astronaut was distracted coping with the grease issue and barely missed snagging the tool pallet. None of this sounds like negligence to me. These things happen. Usually the double checks catch stuff, but sometimes you get unlucky. If this is the biggest thing we have to complain about then I'm really impressed with how well things are going.
 
Greylensman--You really need to read Carpenter's book to get the other side.

Carpenter talks about a malfunctioning horizon scanner that was not agreeing with his direct observations out the window. He reported it to the ground early in the mission, but the ground seemed to ignore it until the situation became critical.

The malfunctioning scanner fed bad information to the attitude control system, resulting in excessive fuel usage in the early orbits of the mission.
 
SCE to AUX said:
Greylensman--You really need to read Carpenter's book to get the other side.

Carpenter talks about a malfunctioning horizon scanner that was not agreeing with his direct observations out the window. He reported it to the ground early in the mission, but the ground seemed to ignore it until the situation became critical.

The malfunctioning scanner fed bad information to the attitude control system, resulting in excessive fuel usage in the early orbits of the mission.
Click to expand...


AGREED! Not to go OT too far here, but here beside me in my spaceflight library is a shelf with more than 20 books written (or ghosted for) the folks involved in the space program- the most self-serving and ego influanced of which is , IMO, Craft's. I'd suggest reading all of the others before taking his as a single source.

BTW- I read the checklist(s) and the only thing it says is that to open the bag and check its contents. However... teathering may be a general proceedure that applys to everything (such is common in aviation). I'm not making excuses here, nor arguing with anyone here- and I do not have access to everything- teathering could be a part of standard training as well. In looking through the checklists, I saw that almost every illustration had several teather points on every piece of hardware.

So far as careers- lets' keep in mind how many STS flights remain plus how big the upcoming gap is. Many in the astronaut office will not have another flight in their future anyhow. Any astronaut can leave NASA today and have a huge resume to market very well in the private sector- without regard to an on-orbit slip.
 
My take on it is nothing will happen UNLESS at some point in time the bag becomes a missle to an in coming or outgoing craft.
 

Similar threads

D
Notes from the UK on foreign adventures
Replies
12
Views
2K
Jerry Irvine
Jerry Irvine

Latest posts

Back
Top