Another US automaker is getting out of car business

[Peartree]

I see a lot of 4wd crew cab pickups on the road lately. These road locomotives usually have no more than the driver aboard most of the time. But in case one has to get a squad of infantry to the front line...

My extended cab half-ton 4WD pickup replaced my Ford Explorer. The pickup gets significantly better gas mileage. At the cemetery this summer, I asked the guy from the vault company what kind of mileage he gets with his big three-quarter ton (or maybe a one ton) 4WD diesel crew cab and I was surprised by his answer. He gets better than 25 mpg in mostly mixed city/highway driving. That's better than many smaller automobiles. You don't have to have a truck full of stuff all the time to make it worthwhile, just often enough that it's cheaper than owning a second (or third) vehicle. Newer technology is having a significant impact on the fuel economy of larger vehicles as well as the smaller ones.

 

[dr wogz]

And, larger vehicles make people feel safer. that is.. being in, not in front of..

 

[Banzai88]

I see a lot of 4wd crew cab pickups on the road lately. These road locomotives usually have no more than the driver aboard most of the time. But in case one has to get a squad of infantry to the front line...

Ahhhhhh, smell that? That's FREEDOM!!!!!!!!

Incidently, my truck gets better gas mileage than my oldest daughter's sedan or my middle daughter's econobox.

 

[boatgeek]

My extended cab half-ton 4WD pickup replaced my Ford Explorer. The pickup gets significantly better gas mileage. At the cemetery this summer, I asked the guy from the vault company what kind of mileage he gets with his big three-quarter ton (or maybe a one ton) 4WD diesel crew cab and I was surprised by his answer. He gets better than 25 mpg in mostly mixed city/highway driving. That's better than many smaller automobiles. You don't have to have a truck full of stuff all the time to make it worthwhile, just often enough that it's cheaper than owning a second (or third) vehicle. Newer technology is having a significant impact on the fuel economy of larger vehicles as well as the smaller ones.

Diesel vs. gas is apples and oranges. Back when I had a diesel VW, I got around 45 mpg. A comparable gas model was 25-30 mpg. In theory, that means a gas truck like the diesel would be around 15-20 mpg. That's not bad for its size and weight, but my minivan still beats it.

 

[Paulb06]

Boom, you've hit a major issue facing the US auto industry head on. The product being built today is immensely superior to previous offerings throughout the industry, so the pace of replacement is slowed. Additionally, demand has shifted for each and every volume manufacturer to a smaller array of products worldwide. Ford and GM are both preparing for tomorrow by shedding low sales performers such as the Cruze and Focus and investing more heavily in truck, SUV, and CUV products, as well as electric and autonomous products. As they make this shift, they find themselves with an excess of production capacity.

Increased automation in the plants further adds to the challenge, as units go down the assembly line faster, with less human intervention, and fewer defects. This means that the factories that the volume manufacturers retain can produce more units with fewer people, making the overcapacity problems even more acute.

James

Another thing folks don't realize is the "cossover" vehicles are really cars underneath...with taller, more roomy bodies on top....the automakers are making a lot more of them than they used to because consumers are buying them over sedans....

 

[Buckeye]

Take the Chevy Volt,

The Volt is the thinking man's EV. It solves the problems of range anxiety and the need for two vehicles. Brilliant.

We had three Volts in the past 10 years. Me - one. wife - two (she is an aficionado).

Unfortunately, the buying public never understood the Volt's unique technology, and Chevy never figured out how to properly market it. I'm sad to see it go.

When the EV onslaught hits a few years, there may be more sedan offerings. Things change.

 

[James Duffy]

Unfortunately, the buying public never understood the Volt's unique technology, and Chevy never figured out how to properly market it.

Agreed, the Volt is a remarkably well-engineered vehicle. I place the blame for the relative failure of the product on the dealer body, coupled with GM's failure to insist that their dealers invest in training, infrastructure, and inventory to support the product.

I walked into a GM dealer not long after the Volt was introduced in order to kick the tires. Not only did the salescritter know nothing about the product, he outright advised against the purchase and advised that I buy a Cruze instead.

James

 

[afadeev]

It appears GM's problems are more fundamental than market demand shift from model A to model B.
Their production lines and supply chain are stupendously inflexible, forcing each plant to specialize on a given model. Thus when demand shifts (inevitable over time), their only recourse is to shut down one plant, and open another. Even after these closures, GM will still be left with some plants operating at 100+% of capacity, and others at 20-30%.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...pse-outruns-gm-moves-to-keep-up-idUSKCN1NX1IP

I remember touring a BMW plant in Munich, and other than having on-chassis computers that controlled the exact configuration for each and every car (each can be build with 10^5 custom features without interruption), the entire manufacturing line could be reconfigured into an entirely different model over-night.

Just piss poor planning by GM.

Another thing folks don't realize is the "cossover" vehicles are really cars underneath...with taller, more roomy bodies on top....the automakers are making a lot more of them than they used to because consumers are buying them over sedans....

That's a good point - statistics (semi-arbitrarily) count cross-overs as light trucks, even though they are all but a tall-body car.
For example two-wheel drive CR-V qualifies as a passenger car, and the all-wheel drive CR-V qualifies as a light truck.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=31352

The motivation for confusion?
There are more stringent fuel economy standards for cars vs. light trucks, thus automakers game the system by re-classifying crossovers into "trucks":

Thus the over-hyping of "collapse in car sales"...

 

[Paulb06]

My extended cab half-ton 4WD pickup replaced my Ford Explorer. The pickup gets significantly better gas mileage. At the cemetery this summer, I asked the guy from the vault company what kind of mileage he gets with his big three-quarter ton (or maybe a one ton) 4WD diesel crew cab and I was surprised by his answer. He gets better than 25 mpg in mostly mixed city/highway driving. That's better than many smaller automobiles. You don't have to have a truck full of stuff all the time to make it worthwhile, just often enough that it's cheaper than owning a second (or third) vehicle. Newer technology is having a significant impact on the fuel economy of larger vehicles as well as the smaller ones.

One thing that gets lost in the conversation is pick up trucks last quite a bit longer than compact cars on average...im thinking of replacing my F150 with one of the new aluminum ones one of these days...but I only have 200k on this one so it could be a while

 

[Peartree]

One thing that gets lost in the conversation is pick up trucks last quite a bit longer than compact cars on average...im thinking of replacing my F150 with one of the new aluminum ones one of these days...but I only have 200k on this one so it could be a while

Agreed. My "new" truck is a 2008 with 143000 miles on it and I expect to drive it for at least five more years.

 

[Woody's Workshop]

I have to confess.
I've only owned 2 cars my entire life.
Both were used, and a cheap necessity of life.
Trucks have always been my vehicle of choice.
When I was younger the box was filled with an air mattress under the topper.
Later, I needed it for work.
Now, it's just much easier to get in and out of with my back problems.
They ride better, you can haul stuff, and you can see more from the driver's seat.
I doubt I will ever buy another car.
It's just the way it is.
oh, and I will never own a GM vehicle with a birth date past 1980.

 

[BEC]

I was thinking about this thread as I was going up to Sixty Acres to fly a couple of weeks ago. Now granted, where I was driving (east side of the Puget Sound area) is not quite "typical", but I saw plenty of sedans and hatchbacks on the road along with the SUVs and pickups. But VERY few of them were US made. Most were Japanese or Korean. In fact as I started trying to keep track I found it a little amusing that the largest number of US-made sedans I saw were in fact Teslas - specifically Model 3s (and one Model S).

Of course who am I to talk? I was driving a Kia Soul EV myself.

 

[cwbullet]

25 MPG in diesel - I call malarky. It is more like 22. I agree it is more than expected, but it is not 25. My wife has the best in market F250 and it gets 22-23. The again diesel is 2.60 to 3.00 a gallon vs which is at least 40 to 50 cents per gallon difference.

 

[cwbullet]

25 MPG in diesel - I call malarky. It is more like 22. I agree it is more than expected, but it is not 25. My wife has the best in market F250 and it gets 22-23. The again diesel is 2.60 to 3.00 a gallon vs which is atleast 40to 50 cents

25 MPG in diesel - I call malarky. It is more like 22. I agree it is more than expected, but it is not 25. My wife has the best in market F250 and it gets 22-23. The again diesel is 2.60 to 3.00 a gallon vs which is at least 40 to 50 cents per gallon difference.

Excuse the sarcasm.

 

[jd2cylman]

25 MPG in diesel - I call malarky. It is more like 22. I agree it is more than expected, but it is not 25. My wife has the best in market F250 and it gets 22-23. The again diesel is 2.60 to 3.00 a gallon vs which is at least 40 to 50 cents per gallon difference.

Chuck,
It depends on the gearing and the load. If the guy got a 3.50-1 rear axle ratio and just drives a empty truck, it's probably possible (and a Chevy, they always get better mileage than Fords...). Years ago when the 7.3 diesel first came out in the F-series, my boss got one. 5 speed w/ overdrive, and a 3.50 rear axle. You couldn't pull a heavy load, but empty as a commuter truck for him, it got great mileage; above 20 is all I remember. That was commuting, not long trips.

 

[cwbullet]

I know. A lot of folks like to quote how great their mileage is. My sister in law quotes 28 for her SVU. It is hogwash.

I get 40 in my hybrid. As long as it is summer without AC.

I am suspicious of anyone who claims 22+ on a truck with a diesel. Sure it is possible in ideal situations. The ideal is not reality 24/7.

 

[rharshberger]

I know. A lot of folks like to quote how great their mileage is. My sister in law quotes 28 for her SVU. It is hogwash.

I get 40 in my hybrid. As long as it is summer without AC.

I am suspicious of anyone who claims 22+ on a truck with a diesel. Sure it is possible in ideal situations. The ideal is not reality 24/7.

Odds are the mileage is based on a automatic transmission and using cruise control. Both those together with modern ecu's are capable of getting better MPG's than a driver doing everything. The new Ford 3.0liter diesel will supposedly do 30mpg but only in the 2WD version, the 4WD version only gets 25mpg (a co-worker has one). My vehicles have rarely achieved quoted mileages except my 2000 Audi A6 which seems pretty much dead on unless I leadfoot it.

 

[BEC]

Well....if we turn to real vs. advertised gas milage... the gas car in our driveway is a 2013 Mazda3 5-door with a SkyActiv 2.0L engine and a six-speed MT. The EPA numbers on the window sticker say 27 mpg city, 38 mpg highway, 31 mpg combined. Over its 70,000+ miles I've seldom seen a tankful below 29 mpg and the car's internal tracking is currently showing an overall milage of 32 mpg since new. I'm one of those guys who keeps a log book and have data (date, location, quantity, price, calculated milage) for every tank of gas, every repair, etc. for the car. I've seen it touch 40 mpg on cross-country trips (say, driving to NARAM in Colorado from here) - this would be on the interstate, cruising at 75 mph with the air conditioning on.

But I know nothing of claims vs. reality for diesel pickups....

BTW, I'm not keeping a log book on the Kia Soul EV because the main thing I'd log - fill-ups and gas milage - I can't really log. This is a first since I started driving my own cars in college. I have books on all my vehicles until this one.

I just plug the Soul EV in at night and it's fully charged in the morning. We almost never recharge elsewhere. I do know my electric bill is up about $40/month since having the car. Maintenance/repairs are essentially non-existent. It's been to the dealer for a planned service once, at 15K miles. That consisted of a tire rotation and installation of a new cabin air filter. I'll do the same at 30K miles. That's it.