All right, vinyl fanatics: Gather 'round. Here's all you need to know about buying phono cartridges.

[cvanc]

Are we sitting comfortably? Excellent.

So it's like this: I've aligned way more turntables than you have. Way more. With heavy emphasis on the spendy setups. Been doing it my whole life, for good money. So I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two. Patterns have fallen out and here I share them. When buying a cartridge, these are the important things, in order from most to least important.

I'm making Rule number Zero the compliance vs. tonearm mass for a properly placed subsonic resonance. This is absolutely essential and getting this wrong means no amount of effort can fix it. That is a long thread all by itself... maybe someday.

However, if discussing the cartridges themselves in isolation from any particular arm, here are the priorities:

1) the shape of the stylus
2) The shape of the stylus
3) THE SHAPE OF THE STYLUS
4) THE FRIGGIN SHAPE OF THE STYLUS
5) IS THIS THING ON?!? STYLUS SHAPE
6) Cantilever material - yes you can hear the difference, with aluminum at the bottom and all of the exotics (boron, sapphire, ruby, diamond) clustered pretty closely together but well above aluminum. Well above.

OK, here's what is not important: the entire back half of the cartridge. The motor. It is far less important what the motor is, moving magnet, moving coil,... IDGAF anymore. Truly superb examples exist in both categories.

It's similar to the evolution, and maturation, of different motor technologies in cars. To the actual driving experience it maters less and less what you choose these days, they all do a perfectly good job. The old cartridge rules no longer apply because preamp electronics got better and made the rules obsolete.

All that matters are the moving parts. The rest is just support gear. Strong analogy here to cars: We obsess over the car itself but we're really driving the tires.

A purchasing philosophy grows from this thinking: Buy the sharpest stylus available in whatever product series you're shopping. It is much smarter to drop down one model line (or two!) and get the top version from that cheaper series.

Get the top version of whatever series you are shopping in. That's the right purchase. Every time.

Yours in audio snobbery,
Me

PS for Jderimig: LVB250. Trust me.
PS for Antares JS: It's your fault I hear the title in my head in Grandpa Buff's voice!

 

[jderimig]

Carl, thank you for this post. LVB250 sounds wonderful, holy grail stuff. What might be a best bang for the buck choice for me, light tonearm...

 

[cvanc]

John my experience has told me again and again that a thousand dollar cartridge on a two hundred dollar turntable sounds way better than a thousand dollar turntable with a two hundred dollar cartridge. Which is not how audiophiles think. Ever. Audiophiles obsess over the turntable.

Guys the analogy here is a microphone and a microphone stand. Which is more important to the sound? No one will answer this wrong, it's obvious. The cartridge is the microphone and the turntable's job at the end of the day is just to hold it in the right way.

My advice is save up for the LVB and hope they keep it available for a while. It's that good.

 

[FredA]

Agree on many fronts but it's all gotta balance.
Putting your beloved cart on a turntable that rumbles like your neighbor's diesel at 5 AM is not going to give a good experience.
I recently upgraded from an above-average table to a very much above average table - same cart - and the difference is pretty amazing.

GIGO - doesn't matter where the garbage comes from............

Next cart for me .... probably a Hana Red

 

[jderimig]

John my experience has told me again and again that a thousand dollar cartridge on a two hundred dollar turntable sounds way better than a thousand dollar turntable with a two hundred dollar cartridge. Which is not how audiophiles think. Ever. Audiophiles obsess over the turntable.

Guys the analogy here is a microphone and a microphone stand. Which is more important to the sound? No one will answer this wrong, it's obvious. The cartridge is the microphone and the turntable's job at the end of the day is just to hold it in the right way.

My advice is save up for the LVB and hope they keep it available for a while. It's that good.

I am sure it is. But I will probably go with an OM20, 2M Blue, 2m bronze or AT570ML (in the $300) range and enjoy that. The rest of my system has degrees of imperfection and I enjoy it immensely. Those imperfections are probably greater than the difference between a good $300 stylus and an $1000 one, no?

BTW, My table is a Thorens 160 Super, if that matters.

 

[cvanc]

Fred, for sure there's a lot of crappy turntables out there. Many of them are quite expensive. And don't even get me started about expensive but awful tonearms! The world is full of those.

But there are tons of budget priced TTs used & new that are solid performers. They just lack features and won't get you laid. (over obvious newsflash: neither will the expensive one)

John I don't know all the cartridges out there, for instance I've never dealt with a Hana. You've got a Grace 707 arm, right? I'm predicting your weather with my eyes closed and from a distance, but stay at or above 20 for compliance and shop at the 'sharp' end of whatever cartridge family you are looking at. And beware of width issues - that headshell hangs down on the sides and some carts won't fit at all.

I loved my Thorens 160 many years ago, but use the official Thorens belt! Thorens TTs are low torque and soft suspension - the specific belt really matters.

Signed,
Hugh Hefner with an Empire 598 Troubadour (the last guy who pulled off the above trick)

 

[Hobie1dog]

Signed,
Hugh Hefner with an Empire 598 Troubadour (the last guy who pulled off the above trick)

last year I had to sell my fully restored empire 598

 

[FredA]

Some TT's are definitely using snake oil as lube.

 

[cvanc]

Hobie, you can't leave us hanging!! Spill the beans, buddy.

Did the Troubadour.... well... you know... did it "work" for you like it did for ole' Hugh?

(bow chicka bow wow emoji goes here)

 

[Hobie1dog]

Hobie, you can't leave us hanging!! Spill the beans, buddy.

Did the Troubadour.... well... you know... did it "work" for you like it did for ole' Hugh?

(bow chicka bow wow emoji goes here)

uuhhhh.......NO

 

[jderimig]

What is the proper method to align a new cartridge? Tool gadgets? Test records? Optical comparitor? Eyeballs, Ears?

I am soon going to pull the trigger on a cartridge and need the expertise (@cvanc among others) possessed in this group.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

 

[jderimig]

Truth^

 

[cvanc]

Many ways to go here and a debate bordering on religious.

An early decision is to do it strictly mechanically using eyes & hand tools, or to get some test equipment, go beyond eyeballing, and actually measure stuff in the output signal.

Either way you need at least one record you can call a reference and some kind of alignment protractor. Plus tiny hand tools & screws & such.

In the measure stuff category a cheap useful tool is a dB meter. A medium priced useful tool is an oscilloscope. An expensive useful tool is a spectrum analyzer. You don't need a microscope, it's not really helpful.

A first surface mirror is super helpful. Alignment protractors can be downloaded for free and printed out but you gotta make sure you get the scaling of the print job right. I use an ancient protractor and don't know all the new ones but some are wildly overcomplicated and expensive. You want one that is generic to all arms & tables and you want the Baerwald math. The better protractors show both the inner and outer null points (there are two) and many just show the outer null point.

I use more than one test record but I lean heavily on this one, it is a recent and superb mastering job. If you only have one this is it:

https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Ana...1707677624&sprefix=test+record,aps,108&sr=8-4

Oh, here's some blasphemy for ya: You can ignore VTA. Just set the arm tube parallel to the record and stop futzing with it. On the other hand azimuth needs to be agonized over.

That's a fair start, ping back when you need to.

 

[jderimig]

In the measure stuff category a cheap useful tool is a dB meter. A medium priced useful tool is an oscilloscope. An expensive useful tool is a spectrum analyzer.

I have all three. I ordered this protractor/block.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09582JDW6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[jderimig]

I ordered the AT VM54ml. Not the ultimate Nirvana but probably a step from my 30 year old Grado.

 

[Bob in Phoenix]

Will anyone like my Shure V-15 Type III?

Bob

 

[Hobie1dog]

Will anyone like my Shure V-15 Type III?

Bob

i had one of those on my Empire 598 turntable.

 

[cvanc]

The last generation or two of the Shure V-15 had MicroRidge styli. I bet they tracked like a bloodhound.

Fun fact: when they ended all cartridge production Shure donated a ton of V-15s to the National Archives so they had the good stuff for a few more decades.

 

[cvanc]

How's it going John? Are you all peaked and tweaked or is it fighting back?

 

[jderimig]

How's it going John? Are you all peaked and tweaked or is it fighting back?

Everything is still sitting in a box. Waiting for 12AX7's to arrive for the EAR834 phono preamp clone. Bought the test record you recommended and the cartridge alignment protractor.

Edit: I did fine 4 new RCA black plate 5751's in my dad's stash.
But I am not going to plug $200 tubes into the amp until I am sure its stable and right.

 

[jderimig]

After listening to the phono amp in my system with the resident Grado Black for about a week I decided its time to install the new AT VM540ML and give it a listen. Wow! Love it. Did a rough alignment when I get time I will do the fine adjustments.

I will probably need to replace the cable from table to preamp. It was rewired with Distech Silver by Merlin, it probably has 200pf+ of capacitance along with the 150pf of the 12AX7 input capacitance. AT carts want 200pf max. But it sounds good, maybe the 10khz ringing from that capacitance compensates my old age hearing loss....

 

[Hobie1dog]

I decided its time to install the new AT VM540ML and give it a listen. Wow! Love it.

It always gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside when you put on a new cartridge.

 

[jderimig]

Ok rocket audiophile vinyl people. I am thinking about my first foray into trying a MC cartridge. I am leaning towards this guy, AT AT-OC9XSL. Not only because of price and stylus, but it has a highish compliance which will work well with my existing tonearm. (And no @FredA , I am not going to drop >$2K on a cartridge, yet...). DNA sounds good, microline stylus and boron cantilever.



What says the group???

 

[FredA]

Not a bad choice by any measure.
Have you considered a Hana SL or SH depending on your phono-amp.
Or stretch to a Hana ML if workable.

But they are lower compliance - only 10 - that AT at 22 is pretty hard to match.
How heavy is your arm? Did you list that somewhere in this thread?

 

[jderimig]

Not a bad choice by any measure.
Have you considered a Hana SL or SH depending on your phono-amp.
Or stretch to a Hana ML if workable.

But they are lower compliance - only 10 - that AT at 22 is pretty hard to match.
How heavy is your arm? Did you list that somewhere in this thread?

Light arm, Grace 707, about 9 grams. Not much choice is high compliance MC's these days.

I will need a SUT to drive my phono amp. Leanings towards a Cinemag 1254 xformer and DIY box for it.

 

[FredA]

You could add some weight at the cartridge to change the resonance.
Consider adding 1.5g to the Hana ML - spendy but I've heard it's superb.

Here's what a calculator says:

 

[Hobie1dog]

awesome cartridge

 

[cwbullet]

I love vinyl and still listen to them, but they hard to carry with you.

 

[jderimig]

I just had a nice exchange with David Geren, owner of Cinemag, about step up transformers. (check out his company's website here ). His SUT's are very highly regarded.

I explained that I was interested in moving to MC cartridges and I am a DIY'er and would like to make the SUT. He was very encouraging and generous with technical information. He offered to provide SUT's at a great price in case I wanted to build some for others in the same boat. (MC curious). If others are interested in pursuing a great SUT at a nice price, let me know. Price would cost. I'd get the benefit of lower cost transformers and the free technical advice.