Aerotech Dark Matter Propellant

[eggplant]

The one on the Aerotech facebook page is a stealth on an Aerotech K456DM. Is that the one you are talking about?

 

[Rocketman248]

also, the "Dan Michael Signature Propellant" has been tossed around...by Dan Michael. :wink:

Not just tossed around. They really are labeled Dan Michael Signature Line.

Just one of the perks of being a dedicated Aerotech Representative for as long as he has.

 

[UPscaler]

Uhhh. Why do you call it FANTASTIC yet say you still prefer skidmarks?

Anyway, on my part, I'm building a rocket specifically for the Dark Matter I motor.

Because I think DM is FANTASTIC...

...but I prefer Skidmarks still...

Not CTI skidmarks either...AMW!




Braden

 

[Rocketman248]

Hey! The stealth is not dark matter. It's a CTI K454 skidmark...I know, it's my stealth! (I checked my shots of the launch)...but I'd fly some dark matter if Dan threw one my way!

anyhow, that's a great shot of the stealth!

rick

The one on the Aerotech facebook page is a stealth on an Aerotech K456DM. Is that the one you are talking about?

Dan Michael flew his Stealth on the K456DM at Red Glare.

 

[bobkrech]

Hmm wow never knew that. Does it regulate particle density in relation to the total mass of the propellant? Or just the actual size of the particles themselves?

10 mesh Ti is HUGE! 8 mesh Ti is even more huge:y:! As you can see from the photo on this site: https://scienceforyou.net/pyrotechn...ls/titanium-sponge-powder-coarse-10-mesh.html, 10 mesh Ti is very much "gravel" consistency . I highly doubt that any but very, very large motors could eject such enormous hunks of metal .

Solid Titanium particles are not allowed under NFPA 1125. Only Titanium sponge is permitted, and it may not exceed 12% mass fraction in the propellant with a maximum size of 2.38 mm.

Due to the large particle size, titanium particles burn for several seconds and many flaming particles will land around the launch pad before they burn out. This will cause grass fires if the area around the pad is not cleared of dry organic matter. Safety codes require that when lanching skidmarks, a minimum 75' dimeter circke around the pad must be cleared of combustible matterial for J-impulse motors and smaller and up to a 190' diameter circle cleared around a L3 pad launching skidmarks.

Bob

 

[blackjack2564]

I must add:

These DarkMatter Motors AT introduced are more exciting than ANYTHING AT has done in years. [IMHO]

First I have always been a BIG Skid Fan...especially the M-2200 & K-1000.
I have flown a dozen or so in various drag races since 2004 culminating in the infamous one at LDRS 29. [now pictured on the LDRS 31 front page]

Yeah I know they are wasted newtons, fire breathing showstopping noise makers. But so are Dragons & we all love them too.... so what?
They are crowd pleaser's & I like them.

I was standing, back to the pads, when they pushed the button on Dan's flight with a 75mm DarkMatter in the pipe. The hair on my neck prickled, I felt the rumble in my gut, my ears hurt from the screeching, crackling thunderous roar. I though for sure someone had found a M-2200 hundred in a stash somewhere...........

...........But then I turned to see the rest of the flight, oh hell no...this ain't no M-2200...Thick black smoke were the backdrop for brilliant yellow/gold sparks, showering down from the heavens as Dan's rocket lifted majestically into the sky. And this was broad, sunny daylight!

I quickly asked what the hell was it I just witnessed."That's AT's new DarkMatter" was the reply.

I was/am impressed....very impressed. If that DarkMatter motor passes muster in that configuration which I saw & heard, and shows up on dealers shelves just like the one I saw.....BINGO AT we have a WINNER!!

Hopefully there would be a KBA version for all 7600 cases gathering dust out there.

Gary you listening? I would love to do something with DarkMatter for LDRS Crazy Jim Dragrace!

 

[dlb]

I'd be in on that one.
MD DS ready to go!
op:

 

[JStitz]

Well said Crazy Jim! I mixed up the two threads last night but mentioned about the Thrust Snobs that dis-like sparkie's just because of their "wasted" thrust.
Hell..I always thought I was putting on a show when I launched HPR...and this type of propellent gets APPLAUSE!:clap:

 

[jimzcatz]

One of the first AMW 7600 skid prototypes, LDRS Orangeburg. Paul called it an M2000 at the time. I was able to do a manufactures demo.

 

[CarVac]

So anyone know when the Dark Matter reloads will make it to vendors? I guess they need to start production now that it's certified.

 

[stantonjtroy]

Hey! The stealth is not dark matter. It's a CTI K454 skidmark...I know, it's my stealth! (I checked my shots of the launch)...but I'd fly some dark matter if Dan threw one my way!

anyhow, that's a great shot of the stealth!

rick

Sorry, my mistake. I know Dan flew what I thought was a Stealth with one and I've missidentified. Dumb Dumd Me!

 

[stantonjtroy]

Just what I remember from the one Dan gave me, They light great, Very smooth burn, a little gentler push off the pad (not a jackhammer in the butt) and the spark size is noticeably smaller. That being the case, I can't forsee a problem with Cert. Loud enough to get your attention but not ear splitting. This all on the 38mm"I". FWIW

 

[JStitz]

OK..for those of us not in the know..Who the hell is Dan and how does he figure in with Gary-Tech and this propellent?
Please explain..

 

[JStitz]

OK..for those of us not in the know..Who the hell is Dan and how does he figure in with Gary-Tech and this propellent?
Please explain.....

I lost track of employees after Jason Blatzhiem and Carl Bauman..and the "Fire"

 

[Rocketman248]

Dan Michael. He's an Aerotech Representative. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but he burn a lot of Aerotech motors!

 

[DJDeadParrot]

What is the difference between Dark Matter motors and the Metalstorm motors?

 

[Aksrockets]

What is the difference between Dark Matter motors and the Metalstorm motors?

Metalstorm motors have white smoke, Dark Matter motors have black smoke.


Alex

 

[jimzcatz]

What is the difference between Dark Matter motors and the Metalstorm motors?

If you have been around for awhile, its like skidmark vs silverstreak!!

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

I used to love flying Jim Mitchell's DPS Yellow Jackets . His motors where nasty !!! His 29mm single use H123's where one of my favorite. 4 of those in a Loc 4-29ss and you better hang on.

Eric

 

[JStitz]

Ron and Mike Dunkel had a Spitfire that they wanted to sell from their fledgling company, APS, that was nice. I got to demo 2 of their I-140 Spitties and they kicked butt, both visually and sonically.

Right now, I have to put my money on Jim Harris' Gorilla Motors sparkies in the 54mm and 75mm range. His 98mm Black Lightning is unsurpassed in my opinion. Fortunately, Jim shows up at our launches every month, so we get to see a lot of his demos, and people are flying a lot of his propellant down here.

Terry

I was around for the whole APS fiasco and I don't really care about the outcome.
Mike Dunkle ended up working for NASA in some capacity anyway.
Well...Ron Urinsco's rockets were in several of Frank Kosdons early adds in High Power Rocketry Magazine. (full scale Amraam)
Was Ron a Disciple of Franks? Did Dr Kosdon teach him everything he knew?:confused2:

 

[larock69]

Yea, though Jason had his own special blend that had that name attached to it too, hence my reference. Jerry's always seemed iffy, depending on if the delay stack held together. (I never knew the drilling story, that explains a lot!)

My favorite was always Ron Urinsco's formula -- if more Ti is good, lots more is better


Here is a Video of an APS M1130 Spitfire in my Smokin Rockets Megagoblin,Scott.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0dknkmFT5Y

 

[jimzcatz]

I still have some APS hardware.

 

[JStitz]

Oh Jim..I'm sorry you bought a casing. I know at the time we were all SO sick of Gary-Tech K-550's
(another boring champagne cork Baby-K white lightning load)
that ANY new motor manufacturer was welcome...and they were generous with their demo free loads for a while.(spitfire and red)
Can a EX'er use that casing? turn it into some cash so you can buy more "M's" that you crave.:wink:

 

[stickershock23]

OK..for those of us not in the know..Who the hell is Dan and how does he figure in with Gary-Tech and this propellent?
Please explain..

you (or anyone) cant just go to a launch and Demo an uncertified motor anytime they want.. there IS SUPPOSED to be a process you must go through first..

Part of the SHORT version of going through that process involves a DEMO FLIGHT by a representative of the company demoing it. The long version you can have ANYONE demo that motor (if I read the "rules" correctly). Hence Dan is the official rep..

I am sure that saves a LOT of hoops that need to be jumped through to demo any motor at a certified launch..

hope that answers your question.

 

[jimzcatz]

Oh Jim..I'm sorry you bought a casing. I know at the time we were all SO sick of Gary-Tech K-550's
(another boring champagne cork Baby-K white lightning load)
that ANY new motor manufacturer was welcome...and they were generous with their demo free loads for a while.(spitfire and red)
Can a EX'er use that casing? turn it into some cash so you can buy more "M's" that you crave.:wink:

I use it alot for research. Gonna do a test fire saturday with a sparkie formula we got from the late Ed Rowe. Cant wait to see if it works. and FWIW, i think the APS design was years ahead of its time. Those heavy threads and ease of assembly are great.

 

[JStitz]

Jim I'm glad you can use that purple boy, and I do remember looking at the threading and noting they were more idiot proof with coarser threads.
(They were also pretty "Royally Elegant" with purple and gold)

Mark, I thought Dan was the "Creator of Dark Matter" for Gary...not just a rep.
I remember Ed LaCroix, he was nice and generous also. (as well as a Complete Rocket Glider GURU!..old school NAR guy)
I was around when the I-435 and I-300 loads were demo'd. we were relieved..we were starting to think Gary had a serious Gambling problem ..him living in Vegas and all...

 

[stickershock23]

Mark, I thought Dan was the "Creator of Dark Matter" for Gary...not just a rep.
I remember Ed LaCroix, he was nice and generous also. (as well as a Complete Rocket Glider GURU!..old school NAR guy)
I was around when the I-435 and I-300 loads were demo'd. we were relieved..we were starting to think Gary had a serious Gambling problem ..him living in Vegas and all...

Oh don't get me started.. LOL

 

[jimzcatz]

Oh don't get me started.. LOL

Calm down Mark, take a deep breath!! :no:

 

[Scott S]

The following is posted on Rocketry Online:


TMT Certifies AeroTech Dark Matter and Propellant X Loads


First off: Dark Matter. Dark Matter is a sparky propellant but unlike Metalstorm with it’s higher ISP and white smoke, Dark Matter is the black smoke sparky. Three motors were certified in this propellant.

H178DM-14A This load for the 38-360 case tested out as a 77% H with 283 Total NS, from a propellant weight of 177 grams, total motor weight of 324 grams. The curve shows a motor accelerating to 30 pounds off the pad, rising to 45 pounds max at the 1.2 second point continuing to 30 pounds at the 1.6 second point where it dropped to zero at 1.74 seconds and a 162 N average.

I327DM-14A This load for the 38-720 case tested out as a 68% I with 539 Total NS, from a propellant weight of 354 grams, total motor weight of 628 grams. The curve shows a motor accelerating to a 90 pound max off the pad, reducing to a sustainer value of about 80 pounds until reaching the 1.4 second point dropping to zero at the 1.72 seconds recorded burn time with a 313 N average.

K456DM-14A This load for the 54-1706 case tested out as a 0% K with 1281 Total NS, from a propellant weight of 866 grams, total motor weight of 1484 grams. The curve shows a motor accelerating to a 120 pound max off the pad, reducing to a sustainer value of about 110 pounds until reaching the 2 second point rounding down to 90 pounds at the 2.6 second point, dropping to zero at the 2.897 seconds recorded burn time with a 438 N average..



Second off is a high ISP propellant call Propellant X. It is a fast burning long yellow/white flame with low smoke.

K1103X-14A This load is also for the 54-1706 case and tested out as a 39% K with 1789.5 Total NS, from a propellant weight of 830 grams, total motor weight of 1459 grams. The curve shows a motor accelerating to a 400 pound max off the pad, reducing to a sustainer value of about 300 pounds with a slow down curve to 240 pounds at the 1.4 second point, dropping to zero at the 1.6 second recorded burn time for a 1134 N Average.



Congrats to the Aerotech team for four new motors successfully certified and continued success.

Paul Holmes

Chairman, Tripoli Motor Testing

It has no information about when they will be available.

 

[Pantherjon]

What is the difference between Dark Matter motors and the Metalstorm motors?

Offspring from skidmark and blackjack is probably the best way to describe Dark Matter..