7.5" Modular Booster / upscale Estes SM-3 Seahawk - FINISHED!

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The switch is the GC 35-492-BU. I get mine from Jaytronics in Rockford, IL, at about $4 each. They get them in bulk (which is why the part number ends in -BU)

Would one of these

https://www.bgmicro.com/push-on-push-off-switch.aspx

work, or do you need multiple contacts?

I'm looking for a simple (inexpensive!) SPST POPO lighted 12vdc low current (less than 1 amp) switch. I've got one of the above switches, but I'd like a lighted version.
 
Would one of these

https://www.bgmicro.com/push-on-push-off-switch.aspx

work, or do you need multiple contacts?

I'm looking for a simple (inexpensive!) SPST POPO lighted 12vdc low current (less than 1 amp) switch. I've got one of the above switches, but I'd like a lighted version.

I guess it depends. Would the lighted version draw power from the onboard electronics? You definitely wouldn't want it to drain your batteries. And does it allow you to see it inside the av bay? I use a 1/4" dowel to arm mine through an access hole, and as long as care is taken in building the board so the switch will be in the right spot (vertically), and the end bulkheads and all-threads are oriented so the switch is in the right spot (radially), you shouldn't have any problem finding the switch with an arming tool. It won't be deep.

There are probably as many ways of doing stuff as there rocketeers, so I'll caveat my comments with "this has worked for me". So yes, the switch you cite would probably work just fine as an On-Off switch. One would have to ensure that, if using back-to-back sleds, the "submerged" end of the switch and its associated wiring did not interfere with the adjacent sled. On mine, since both sleds have switch access holes centered in the av bay band, there would be a higher likelihood of conflict. On the GC switch I use, the contacts are on the top (side), so they can butt up next to each other and still have plenty of room.

I don't know about Tripoli, but there is a requirement under NAR to "externally disarm all pyrotechnic devices on-board the rocket. In this context, ‘disarm’ means the ability to physically break the connection between a pyrotechnic system and its power source. Simply turning off the device controlling the pyrotechnic(s) may not be sufficient." Some altimeters fire the ematch with an on-board capacitor, which stores electrical potential, which is why just removing power to the altimeter may not fulfill that requirement - the capacitor would still be charged. Some of my larger projects have used 10 grams of BP for recovery events, so it would be more than an inconvenience if one went off inadvertently. Therefore, in my sleds, in addition to breaking the circuit from the ematch to the altimeter, I shunt (short) the ematch leads together. This could be done with a separate switch, but the potential exists, as mentioned previously, of turning on the altimeter but leaving the ematches unconnected. This would hopefully caught when the continuity check failed, but to reduce the likelihood of that failure, I prefer to put it all in one switch. One less thing to mess up. A 4PDT is the minimum number of contacts that will do that. Switch ON = altimeter powered and ematch leads connected, switch OFF = altimeter OFF, ematch leads disconnected AND shunted.

The only current link I could find in the GC online catalog is for a DPDT switch, part number 35-491. The GC switches I have been using have part number 35-492-BU on the packaging. (The BU signifies they were purchased in "Bulk", and then re-packaged individually.) I bought them from "Jaytronics", an electronics supply store in Rockford, Illinois. You can contact them at 866-965-6775 or 815-965-8786. Very helpful people. Ask for Andy.

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Some quick updates on the little stuff.

(a) I added the battery box to the airstart sled. It holds 3 x 9V batteries (two timers and one Tiltometer) and a 3-cell LiPo (for the igniter circuit). Which is why the board is so wide.

(b) Adding the tee nuts to the av bay to hold the payload tube in place. To make the av bay walls thicker to allow a reasonable length of tee-nut thread, I added small slats of wood. (These started life as paint stir sticks, and coincidentally have the EXACT curve to follow the I.D. of the 5.5" coupler.) Of course, as luck would have it, they are radially right where the av sled edges will be, making a really tight tolerance fit.

(c) Starting to make the mounting plates for the 2 Gearcams. The 7.5" booster has one looking up, the 5.5" sustainer has one looking down. The plates are 8 plies of 4 pound glass, weave rotated between plies, and sandwiched between layers of waxed paper wrapped around the respective body tubes in a poor-man's substitute for a proper vacuum-bagging system. The resultant slugs will be cut to shape and have brackets added to hold the cameras.

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Today I mounted the circuit boards on the Tiltometer sled. Of note, the PCB for the PerfectFlite miniTimer4 has changed significantly from the miniTimer3. In addition to the mounting holes being kitty corner vs in line vertically, the terminal blocks are now located along the bottom vs the left side. That becomes a factor when you mount multiples. Two miniTimer3's fit in line vertically with wires attached to the side, whereas two miniTimer4's must be mounted side by side with the wires attached along the bottom. Anyway, I mounted the timers and the Tiltometer on opposite sides of the same board position, planning a simple route for the wires that go between them and avoiding congestion at the battery box and POPO switch locations. I was able to leave some space on the board for future growth... either Clust-o-matics or possibly a Raven, should there ever be a true Mac FIP. Tomorrow I start soldering.

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The OCD in me took over for a few days as I continue working on the electronics. As previously mentioned, my original wiring diagram (attachment #1) was done in MacPaint, a program no longer supported in Mac OS-X. It shows, for simplification of the diagram, the “ON-OFF” function and the “ematch shunting” function of the arming switch in separate locations, even though in reality it is one 4PDT switch and both actions are completed simultaneously. It didn’t affect my wiring or use of the sled, but it bothered me when shown or used as a handout, as it would be possible to build it using two DPDT switches with the unwanted possibility of arming the altimeters while leaving the ematches shunted*. So, to fix that, I fired up my old pre-USB G3 tower, running OS 8.5. (I loved MacPaint for it’s ease of use, and I had hundreds of schematics and diagrams which are no longer conveniently available.) While I was there, I cranked out new altimeter sled, staging timer sled, clustered airstarts sled, and Tiltometer airstart sled wiring diagrams as well. (attachments 2 thru 5) Only remaining question is the polarity of the pyro channel of the Perfectflite miniTimers. While for an ematch it doesn’t matter, the timers are being used as triggers for downstream electronics, and the trigger input circuit on both the Tiltometer and the Clustomatic care which way the electrons are going. I could not find it in the provided documentation, and have an inquiry off to Perfectflite but have not heard back yet. Anyone out there know?

The diagrams actually took less time to make than to transfer here. While the G3 tower will run MacPaint, it won’t generate a PDF file and no longer has a working printer. The MacPaint file was tranferred via 100M Zip drive (remember those?) to a second computer, which has a Zip drive and the ability to translate the file to a PDF via Appleworks. That file was then transferred to this computer (number 3) via USB flash drive and screenshots made to fit forum file size limits. Whew.

So, while I’m on this subject, let me vent a little. My stereo was purchased in college and works just fine. Never been plugged in to the internet. Now, the electronics industry has succeeded in designing obsolesence into everything made. Granted the products are better now, i.e. DVD vs VHS, CD vs 8-track tape, etc. But why can’t I put a new battery in my iPod or phone? We stuck a Blu-ray into the PS3 to watch a movie a few nights ago... when the PS3 came on it informed us it needed a “system upgrade” from the internet before continuing. Luckily, an inernet connection via WiFi was conveniently available, but the half hour delay waiting for the upgrade to install was a movie-night spoiler. Our PS2 was never connected to the internet and has never needed a “system upgrade”. Do we really need smart refrigerators? We're becoming a nation of computer repairmen.

Rant off.

* Any electricians out there with input? The whole process seems a compromise, the more aesthetically pleasing one having some possible ambiguity while the more accurately drawn one is more complicated and difficult to follow traces. What is the preferred method, keeping the diagram simple (less crossed wire paths) or more true to physical design?

MAWD screenshot.png

SL 100 screenshot.png

staging sled screenshot.png

airstart sled screenshot.png

Tiltometer sled v2 screenshot.png
 
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I heard back today from Perfectflite Tech Support. Both the Tiltometer and the Clustomatic use applied external voltage as an external trigger. The polarity must be hooked up correctly to function, (and not damage the device). They make a point about observing polarity, so I had to confirm. I am using both the miniTimer 3G and the miniTimer 4 as triggers, and on neither is the polarity of the pyro channel marked on the terminal blocks, probably because an ematch doesn't care. But it is possible to follow the traces on the bottom of the printed circuit board. The trace from the positive (+) battery terminal block goes directly next door to the adjacent pyro channel block on the MT4, and the opposite block on the MT3G. This corresponds to PF's response.

====================================================================================================================================

On Oct 20, 2013, at 5:52 PM, PerfectFlite Tech Support wrote:

Both the MT3G and the MT4 have a constant positive hot terminal and a second terminal that is switched to ground when the timer fires.

On the MT3G, the "igniter" terminal block pin closest to the edge of the board is the constant positive supply (connected to the "+" battery terminal block pin). The igniter terminal block pin next to the battery terminal block is the terminal that is switched to ground (battery "-") when the timer fires.

On the MT4, the "igniter" terminal block pin closest to the edge of the board is the terminal that is switched to ground (battery "-") when the timer fires. The igniter terminal block pin next to the battery terminal block is the constant positive supply (connected to the "+" battery terminal block pin).
 
* Any electricians out there with input? The whole process seems a compromise, the more aesthetically pleasing one having some possible ambiguity while the more accurately drawn one is more complicated and difficult to follow traces. What is the preferred method, keeping the diagram simple (less crossed wire paths) or more true to physical design?

I would document every trace but then I'd use schematic design software. The more complicated the circuit the more important it is that every bit of detail is documented. Schematics aren't much fun for me but I'd rather spend an hour now making sure it's right than 10 hours pulling my hair out when it doesn't work later. Your schematics look very good considering you're not using Eagle or the like.
 
Two steps forward, one step back. Got the final decals on the Seahawk today... silver Cg and Cp for the individual halves, black for the combined stack. Also finished wiring the Tiltometer sled. Here is the setback... I had built it using two Perfectflite miniTimer 4's as redundant external triggers. The left one set to fire at ignition + 3.5 seconds, the right one at burnout + 2.0 seconds. However, with both of them wired in parallel and each putting out a tiny current to verify their respective igniter continuities, the combined current was sensed by the the Tiltometer as a premature external trigger. (Too many milliamps.) Luckily, the Tiltometer goes thru a series of self-tests before arming, so the fault was detected (and reported) in time to troubleshoot and correct. The simple fix is just to pull off one of the miniTimers and fly her on one.

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That looks awesome!

Matt

Thanks, Matt. We're getting close... about a week to go. Finished testing all the avionics and starting final assembly of the bays. (I like showing up at a launch with the bays sealed, cuts my lengthy prep process in half. Which is still a long day.) Planning a Saturday morning launch, 10-ish, so as to be out finding pieces while the range is setting up for the Comp 3 drag race, and I get back in time for my shift as RSO.

Off to Sacramento in the morning for my last Spartan race of the year... the Beast... which will complete the Trifecta (each of 3 different length mud/obstacle races in one calendar year). Poor planning on my part to do this during pre-game for MWP, as I am sure I will be a wreck for a few days to follow.

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Sather, I am amazed every time I see an altimeter bay from you. Each and every one is a work of art.

I can't wait to see this thing in person and see it fly! Also, this year we won't have to do as much manual labor trying to lift it as the trailer has been outfitted with an electric winch. Lifts rockets into position at the push of a button.

See you there!

Manny
 
Sather ,I am humbled by your beautiful build ,that`s just gorgeous (and HUGE) !!

...of course ,we expect nothing less from you :handshake:

Sincerely

Paul T
 
Finished and Flown... finally! I'll get the pictures and video posted in sequence. Nov 2, 2013 at Midwest Power 11 in Princeton, IL. It was chilly. Due to recent rain, parking at MWP was along the road rather than in the recently harvested but somewhat muddy field. With a trailer, I ended up a looooong walk to the RSO table, but actually a short walk to the away cell. The Seahawk stack was laid out and prepped alongside the road in a grassy area to keep it and me relatively clean. When finished, the RSO was kind enough to make a house call to save us hauling 100 pounds of rocket the extra half mile and back. (Thanks, Jim!) Also thanks to Scott, Jay, Carl, Ben, Wayne, and Alex for the heavy lifting to and from the field, and to Manny for providing the AWESOME away cell pad. We brought out the stages separately, and then inserted the sustainer's igniter and attached the internal wires. With the booster on the pad, the sustainer was hoisted into position, the stack joined, and the rail tower raised into position.

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prepping Seahawk at away cell.jpg

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Stacking the sustainer and booster.jpg
 
The sky looks pretty ominous towards the horizon, but it was actually scattered clouds and there were plenty of big holes to fly through. The Cesaroni L3150 in the booster got the stack moving at a good clip.

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MECO occurs at 1.5 seconds. Redundant timers in the interstage coupler were set and fired at ignition plus 2 1/2 seconds, and at burnout plus 1.0 second. Both charges fired, staging was clean and straight. 1.0 second later, with a third timer working as the trigger, in conjunction with a Tilt-o-meter set to a limiting angle of 25°, the Aerotech M1315 White Lightning in the sustainer roared to life. Straight into the blue directly overhead. The booster wisely starts arcing over to avoid getting in the smoke trail.

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Thanks for posting the pic's Sather, we were on a recovery mission a couple miles away when it flew. The pictures are incredible!
 
(Low staging was intentional for her first flight. Future plans have an M3400 in the booster.) With the L3150, the booster peaks at 1,191', and two MAWD's deploy the recovery system. A drogue pulls the bag off a 60" main on the ISC, which then pulls a bag off the 168" main of the booster. Free bagging, the ISC and booster recover separately, landing in the corn field near (but thankfully not on) the road. The sustainer pops a drogue at her apogee of 11,574' and free falls for what seems like forever. Somewhere in here I think I take my first breath. Mains were set at 900' with a backup at 700', and right on cue the nose cone came off with the rest of the laundry. Just like the booster, a 36" drogue on the nose cone pulls a deployment bag off the 108" main, and the two pieces come down in formation. The sustainer itself lands in freshly harvested corn stubble, and the nose cone disappears into the remaining corn, still standing in the field. Thank you, Jay and Carl, for wading in and bringing her back.

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My daughter took a video from the flight line with her iPod.

[video=youtube_share;zpf6SMB2fIw]
 
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And Alex took a great video from the away cell, looking up the tailpipe at the staging and airstart, then following the main parachute deployment of the booster.

[video=youtube_share;JWG7-3rVfIg]

P.S. note to self - if YouTube ever asks to "improve the lighting" of your video, say "NO!". It destroyed the first upload and could not undo.
 
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Thanks for posting the pic's Sather, we were on a recovery mission a couple miles away when it flew. The pictures are incredible!

Thanks, Chad. Tricia took most of those. Under it looking up gives a neat perspective, as the airstarted sustainer and coasting booster both stay in frame.
 
Absolutely fantastic
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Congratulations Sather ,on a beautiful rocket and an awe inspiring flight ,gorgeous in every respect !!

You sure do things right !!!


Sincerely


Paul T
 
Way to go Sather! The momentum from the L3150 was incredible to watch from the rangehead... even with the staging delay that thing kept going where it was pointed. Awesome flight! When do you plan to step up to the 3400? We have a nice big field in case you need it... :D :D :D
 
Sather man, that was awesome!!!! My heart skipped a few beats between booster burnout and sustainer ignition. Forgetting that it was *only* an L3150, after burnout I was thinking "that's it????", then just in time, as I began to fear impending doom, the sustainer lit and took that beautiful bird to 11.5k'! Loved it; one of my favorites from the weekend for sure!

Great job; can't wait to see flight #2!

-Eric-
 
Forgetting that it was *only* an L3150, after burnout I was thinking "that's it????"

-Eric-

Thanks for all the kind words, gentlemen. I do get hazed a little on occasion for my love of the L3150. I've flown 6 of them and none have broken 2,000'. And it is my "Go-To" motor for Bong... it will get 100 pounds high enough for an apogee deployed main but not so high it will drift to the trees. David, I will definitely be using your field for the M3400, thank you. It would have busted the waiver at MWP. Thunderstruck gives me a little more wiggle room.

It is interesting to note that the L3150 provided over 40% of the total Impulse of the stack, but contributed only 10% of the altitude. Granted, it carried twice the weight. With a little more data, one could probably do a better job optimizing the motor selection (and rocket design) to make a more efficient use of the fuel. The process is continuous... (Todd, that really does apply here. Thanks for letting me quote your signature. 😄 )
 
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Sather, I cant believe I missed this entire build thread. It was by choice and I humbly apologize. I didn't realise what it was you were building. Anyway, I greatly appreciate you letting me do my small part of this incredibly beautiful (and 100% successful) project. I couldnt stop drooling over it, a piece of museum quality work if there ever was any. Congrats, and I WILL be at TS5 to see her go higher!!
 
Wow, what a project! I thoroughly enjoyed the build, thanks so much for sharing! The launch is the topper, what a way to close out a build, and start a flight log...
 
Just reviewing this thread. Saw the flight, but had not seen the pictures Tricia took. Fabulous!
 
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