Kilz Rocks

Originally posted by Mad Rocketeer
I first heard of the Zinsser stuff in this thread and have not seen any yet. Sounds good though. The Kilz in the spray can is excellent. I wish they had it in 8 oz. friction lid cans too. Then it could be brushed into tube spirals, and sanded before spraying, using less primer and being quicker. They have quarts, but that's a lot for the purpose. I haven't tried the Kilz2. Is that the odor free stuff?

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The Kilz2 is the latex-based stuff. I was hoping to find it as it seems to work better with water-based paints through an airbrush, for me at least.
Reed

I'm going to Lowes to buy my first can tomorrow... God I hope you guys are right! Its going on a very important project!

Anybody got a picture of the spray can?

Masterchem Industries, Inc. - KILZ Original

Available in the traditional Aerosol (rattle-can) spray.



At Lowes: KILZ Universal Sealer-Primer-Stain Blocker Spray



Edit: added second link.

Thanks Mike!

Originally posted by Hogan3276
The other great primer is Bin Zinsser Cover Stain Primer ...
It is a Oil-Base Primer-Sealer.

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If it is oil-based, I think I would stay away from it.

This is like some of the Rustoleum primers---some of 'em use an oil base to help with penetration into rust and other materials. While this may be great for your patio furniture, it may not be good for rockets.

BIN makes some really good stuff, don't get me wrong. Back when I had a kitchen fire (in my previous house), the BIN stuff was excellent for painting over all the cabinet woodwork to seal in the stink and provide a good starting surface for repainting. That is the sort of thing that BIN is designed for.

I don't know with certainty what the "oil" penetrants will do to underlying glues and epoxies, but I would rather let someone else do the experimenting on their rockets. I like to stick with latex-based stuff.

Originally posted by powderburner
If it is oil-based, I think I would stay away from it.

This is like some of the Rustoleum primers---some of 'em use an oil base to help with penetration into rust and other materials. While this may be great for your patio furniture, it may not be good for rockets.

BIN makes some really good stuff, don't get me wrong. Back when I had a kitchen fire (in my previous house), the BIN stuff was excellent for painting over all the cabinet woodwork to seal in the stink and provide a good starting surface for repainting. That is the sort of thing that BIN is designed for.

I don't know with certainty what the "oil" penetrants will do to underlying glues and epoxies, but I would rather let someone else do the experimenting on their rockets. I like to stick with latex-based stuff.

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If you're worried about the oil-based paints, then you should stay away from Kilz as well. Just a thought.
Reed

Well,
I got some, I sprayed it on and yes... It IS very thick. I haven't done any sanding yet but boy do I hate the smell!

Yep the KILZ Original is oil-based. I thought that Bin Zinsser was a competitor's copy of KILZ. Both are good.

Now you have me thinking. I have to look at my rattle-can at home. I remember that the primer in the spray-can is a high-build, but I'm not sure if that is the KILZ Original.

I tried the Kilz tonight. I primed 3 of my rockets. It does cover nicer than any other primer I have used. It seems to resist runs pretty well. I checked on the rockets now that they have dryed a bit. There are tiny holes if in various places. I read this in one or more of the posts on this topic.

What do you do to get rid of these? Did I spray it on too thick?

Someone mentioned that they topcoat it with white paint before using the airbrush. Does this cover up the holes?

Thanks

it's from applying too thick .. and easy to do

You may have sprayed it on too thick, or it may have been too cold. Either way, some sanding should do the trick. To prevent this in the future, you should probably try lighter coats in warmer weather, or, if you must paint in the cold, let the paint can sit in some warm water for a while to try to heat the paint a bit before you spray it on.
Reed

Unfortunately, the pin holes will show in the paint if you do not sand with 320 and then 400 grit sand paper. Just keep working on it until you get the tiny bubbles out.

I have had the same experience with Kilz - I bought it for the first time two weeks ago - the Home Depot I went to didn't have the BIN product that I mentioned earlier...I just kept sanding it lightly until I got them all out. Then I sprayed my first coat of topcoat...

I am so used to working with the BIN product that I haven't figure the Kilz out yet...all I do know is that I have never had that occur with the BIN Zinseer Product.

I am hoping someone can help with the answer to the small bubbles/pin holes. I have a full can of the Kilz to use.

It just isn't warming up here so I painted in my basement.

I have two more rockets to prime after I finish these 3. I am going to sand and put another thinner primer coat.

Again, thanks for the tip on Kilz! Oh, and all the advice!

Would "regular" primer, like the Rustoleum stuff I've been using, be OK to fill the bubbles? Any compatibility problems?

the holes are from applying too much too fast

the gasses are being trapped before they can evaporate and will pop thru the surface,, observe a pancake cooking ..same effect

I'd think that the bubble pinholes would fill fairly easily with either a thin new coat of Kilz or a normal coat or two of regular primer, after a bit of sanding. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to sand, though the dust is thick and gets on everything until you clean it up.

About the only caution I'd have for that important project (mentioned several posts above) is that Kilz is goig to add weight faster than most primers, due to all the extra solids. It can be sanded back thin, but it's hard to get enough sanded away to be as light as a regular primer, I'm thinking. So if that important project needs serious lightness, I'd avoid the Kilz. If you want filled and smoothed fins in next to no time, though, use Kilz!

OK,
I used the Kilz and have my initial opinions of the stuff. First off, I LOVE how thick the stuff is. I sprayed it on the totally unfinished fins of a booster stage for my video rocket. I sprayed one coat on the bare balsa and waited about an hour. I sanded it lightly and it was WAY too early because it clogged the sandpaper easily. Still, I was able to knock down all of the wood fibers sticking up and applied a second, heavy coat. I now plan to leave it for a couple of days until it dries and sand it down again. It LOOKS like it will be darn near glass smooth after the next sanding. I think this is terrific for having started with bare balsa. I hope it sands as nicely when dry as everybody claims it does!

What I do not like about Kilz is the smell and the incredibly long drying time. I have been using the Plastikote spot filler and primer. The Plastikote is about 2/3 as thick as the Kilz, but dries and sands easily after an hour. I'm sure to many the smell is bad also, but I guess I am just use to it.

I will continue to use Kilz, I DO like it, but probably in the warmer months when I can leave it outside to dry AND when I am in no great hurry.

Scott,

In warmer weather be careful with Kilz and high humidity.

It doesn't like to dry for days at anything over 70% humidity!

If you put it on too thick it gets and stays gummy. But that will happen with just about any paint.

Thanks Gordon,
I guess, like I said, I will use it when I am in no rush, OR when I get used to the smell so I don't get a headache! Looking at the booster again I REALLY think after the next sanding it will be ready to paint! I am impressed!

Originally posted by rokitflite
Thanks Gordon,
I guess, like I said, I will use it when I am in no rush, OR when I get used to the smell so I don't get a headache! Looking at the booster again I REALLY think after the next sanding it will be ready to paint! I am impressed!

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Yeah, make sure you're painting in a well-ventilated area (preferably outside). Those fumes are not good for you.
Reed

Originally posted by rokitflite
I will use it when I am in no rush, OR when I get used to the smell so I don't get a headache! [Snip]

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Scott,
I will second Reed's comment.

If you are getting a head ache then use more ventilation. I set-up a box fan in my painting area.

The KILZ Original Low V.O.C. (Volatile Organic Compound) will not smell as bad, but I believe the original version lays down the best.

I'm not painting inside, I am doing that standing in my back yard. It is the smell of the thing when I bring it in to dry.

The smell doesn't bother me all that much, though I don't hang around breathing the fumes from any paint any longer than I need to.

I was using it on my Stormcaster a few days ago, and I had put it on pretty thick (deliberately, since I was just going for spiral filling on that pass and planned to sand it enough to deal with any drips or sags). Somewhat later, when the surface was dry, I grabbed it and began to sand. It was fine, but I noticed that where I had my thumb I had pressed into the primer a bit and smooshed it forward some. I just smoothed it back again, sanded that spot a bit more, and waited another hour or so to finish sanding. No clogging, and the smooshed spot wasn't visible. The wetness was subsurface in the primer and stayed that way throughout. Interesting.

Having tried that, I prefer doing multiple thinner coats, as directed on the can. In the long run, it's just as fast (or possibly faster), and it's easier.

The very first coat filled the fins. No grain has shown from that point on. That's when I fell in love with this stuff. I'd seen favorable comments from others for some time and finally tried it. Those comments didn't do it justice though. Wow. The tube spirals have taken a little more work, but not much. Just a little paint, wait, sand, tack cloth, repeat is making the spiral trivial.

In fact, it's almost too good. I enjoy finishing rockets, and this is so easy, it's like cheating or something.

I saw Kilz Original and odorless, and Bin Zinsser at Home Depot today. I bought a can of Kilz original, so I will try it later today. Has anyone tried odorless in a spray can?

I have with similar results to the original...must use light coats our you'll get bubbles...

Originally posted by Reed Goodwin
Yeah, make sure you're painting in a well-ventilated area (preferably outside). Those fumes are not good for you.
Reed

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Inside or out, you should always use a respirator. The 3M 5000 Series Half Face piece works well and is inexpensive.

I just tried Kilz for the first time. The thing I was concerned about is the weight of my rocket after applying the stuff. I didn't think to weigh the rocket beforehand but now that the Kilz is on it just feels like it weighs a "ton". Anyone else notice this? Am I just paranoid?

Thanks,

Tim

It does seem to add a lot of weight. I have a rocket that weighte 12oz, but I added the parachute, Kilz, and paint and it ended up weighing 16oz. I also used most of the can.

Yeah, most people usually sand most of the Kilz off because of that very concern. You don't really need the thick coat of paint in the end, but it's nice to have it build up quickly when preparing the rocket.
Reed

Originally posted by m85476585
I saw Kilz Original and odorless, and Bin Zinsser at Home Depot today. I bought a can of Kilz original, so I will try it later today. Has anyone tried odorless in a spray can?

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It has a chemical lemony smell to it. I pefer the regular but they didnt have the regular in white.

Mark