Painting/Finishing

Alright, bout time for me to finish my Babby Bertha.

The finish on my E2X Banshee was kinda crappy, so I figured I'd repaint it gloss black and then add the stickers and whatnot.. Using it as a testbed for painting the Baby..

Anyhow, it's looking OK, but maybe you guys can give some tips and whatnot.

The Banshee had some pretty apparent groves, and so I thought I'd just paint over them and the nosecone. I used 120 sandpaper and sanded everything down pretty lightly. Sprayed a layer on the front half of the BT and NC. Waited 3 minutes and sprayed again, let it out to dry for about an hour to an hour and a half. Did the same to back end of the BT, and let dry.

Came out another 1.5hrs later, sanded it all down with the 120 and repeated above steps. Came out again, sanded with 320 this time and repeated the spraying process. At this point, it's looking good, but not quite what I imagined.. I plan on doing one more set of sanding with 320 and spraying, and hopefully it'll then be done..

The groves/lines will still be present.. but hopefully it won't be quite as bad..

Anyhow, is there already a page somewhere someone has made on pretty much the basics on finishing models for maybe levels 1 and 2, and maybe 3? I mean, I dont want to do overkill, stuff that would be neccessary for medium and high power, but not really my small stuff I'm just messing around with, know what I mean?

Thanks.

You are going to have to do some filling with Elmer's putty or equivilant first.

You cannot fill with paint!

OK, maybe you can. Some "primers" like some of the auto body type primers hava a lot of "solids" in them that you can use to fill small groves.

Do a search above. Look up "spirals", "filler", or "primer".

sandman

I just did another quick search and now I've got these questions.

1. Elmer's Carpenters Wood Filler should work on both fins and spirals using the "dry-rub" technique, as seen HERE, right?

2. After the above step, I then spray primer? I'm not to knowledgeable in these areas.. Primer does what exactly? And does color really matter?

3.How important is sanding sealer? Really important? What about clear coat? I take it they are neccessary steps, but if I had to cut corners, are they *that* important?

Thanks.

1. I think so.

2. Primer can fill small imperfections, but even regular estes spirals take way too many coats to be worth it, use #1 above instead.

Primer is really supposed to be that last micro filler that you almost sand off to make everything smooth and ,after a sanding, its also supposed to make some surfaces easier for the actual paint to adhere to... at least thats what I'm going with....

The primer color can affect how a later paint coat appears. Generally white for light and florescent colors (and even white paint as base for flourescent actually) and brown/grey for darker colors is what I seem to get from most things I read and hear.

Sanding sealer is a pain for me... just like any other filler but "paint"=like based can't think of it right now... anyway, like an oil base rather than wood/water or whatever like the wood filler used above...

I've wanted to try just slapping a rocket together and getting a cheap estes pad and then spray painting a huge gob o paint on the nose right before launch and letting my rocket decorate itself...

but, I'd say for a nice finish couple coats primer, sand, couple coats paint, decals, gloss to protect and it really does add something nice... that shiny new look... worth it

for really nice, dry rub )or whatever other method you use( actual filler, sand, primer, paint, etc

sanding sealer.. hmm, just don't like it...

sure someone likes something else but this is what most people seem to do based on what I see at launches

ohhh and thinking of what you see at launches, sometimes I'm very impressed and other times.... man... like those HPR guys who just tried fiberglassing for the first time (I'm assuming) and use carpet tube with huge spirals and the things got no paint and is just lumpy.. aweful....

sorry... just had to say something about those, I'm not the best rocket finisher by far but I try...

1. Elmers Fill 'n Finish FNF should work equally well on the balsa grain in the fins and the tube spirals using the dry rubbing technique.

2. Primer is used over the FNF to give a uniform sandable base for the topcoat of paint to stick to. The primer acts as a final filler coat for the entire model correcting only very small scratches and shallow surface irregularities. It is usually sanded with very fine grits, 400 or greater, then wiped down so the surface is dust free before top coating. The primer color can matter since there is a tendency for the primer to show through, especially with thinner topcoats. I use white primer for white and yellow topcoats or multicolor finishes which include these colors. I prefer gray primer for blues, greens, grays, and black topcoats, and brown primer for reds, browns, and purples.

3. If you use FNF you don't need to use sanding sealer, which does the same thing with less number of applications. I prefer to use a clear coat to protect decals and the paint after they have fully dried. The best clear coat is Future Floor Wax (FFW) clear acrylic, typically cut one to one with water and foam brushed over the finished model. This clear coat will not craze most paints but it will cause some watercolors and markers to smear or run. FFW can be removed with household ammonia water and reapplied if necessary.

Check out may article on painting model rockets on page 3 of the July/August 1999 edition of “The Leading Edge On Line” at:
https://www.nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/JulAug99.pdf

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055

I have been using a new technique for finishing and filling.

First, spray on 223 coats of primer. Enjoy......no wait....wrong thread

I used this technique on my Guardian, and I am quite happy with the results. After I attached the fins with CyA, I used Fill N Finish on the fillets. What I had been doing at this point was just putting a good amount in the fillet and then sanding it down. Well, my mom suggested that after I put the fillet on, but before it dried, dip my finger in water and run it over the fillet. This really reduces sanding times involved to get a smooth finish.

Next, for the BT spiral, I took a glob of FNF, about marble sized, a squeezed it between my thumb and first two fingers. Then, I took this and rubbed the glob back and forth over the spirals. Going all the way down thru all the spirals took about five minutes. This technique means there is very little FNF all around, which leads to less than an hour drying times and very little sanding involved. I didn't try this, but I think that after rubbing the FNF in, you could run a water dipped finger along the spirals. This would likely get rid of all the excess, or at least most of it.

Hope this helps,
Jason

Alright, that all sounds good! Thanks for the replies. Woke up this morning, and checked on the Banshee, it's really not to bad at all. I'll keep all the above stuff in mind, and take my time, and it should look fine, me thinks.

Spirals and grain add character

One other thing you might try, is Kilz spray primer. This stuff will fill just about anything and sands easy. It does create a lot of sanding dust, so do the sanding outside. I usually spray a couple of coats on the fins and spirals only, then a coat on the whole rocket, then sand it down. After than, I lay a coat of standard primer, sand it, then paint.

When it comes right down to it, the only purpose for filling spirals on model rockets is looks.

There is no structural purpose. In fact, all the chemical effects, to say nothing of sanding off the thin plasticine body tube cover, could very well weaken the cardboard material. Not that there is much strength there to begin with.

There is very very very little aerodynamic benefit. (I am talking about Estes-type body tubes here.) The grooves are so small that you would have a hard time measuring any real drag difference with the best wind tunnels available. And there is no aerodynamic reason for fussing over the body tube spirals if you leave a (relatively) huge crack between the nose cone and front of the BT.

When I build rockets to give away (which is most of mine, lately), I do not waste any time on making them look extra smooth and pretty. Yes, I will put some kind of treatment on exposed balsa to seal and smooth it. But after that, the rocket just gets sprayed with cheapo color paint from W-world. On the rockets I build for myself, I don't usually do much more sealing or smoothing either.

If you are building a cut-throat competition model, that is a different matter. Or if you just LOVE to lavish hours on making your rocket look pretty, then that is your choice (I wish I had that much free time). Otherwise, save your time and energy.

Laziness is a virtue too.

I'm not sure why, but powderburner, you just made me feel a little better (not that you guys made me feel bad or anything, I like learnin the info). Puts it into perspective, I'm only doing this for fun, not for a competition. In the sport for less than 2 weeks and I've already become.. addicted.. Thanks a lot guys

After seeing the beautifully painted rockets on Leo's web site, I sure wish he would chime in with the techniques he uses to get those high-gloss finishes. In particular, I would like to know what he uses on the clear coated ones.

Mike Fields

Originally posted by SFenix
In the sport for less than 2 weeks and I've already become.. addicted.. Thanks a lot guys

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Wow, it took 2 whole weeks to become addicted???? I thought the average was only a few days!!! LOL........

Originally posted by Rocketmanic
Wow, it took 2 whole weeks to become addicted???? I thought the average was only a few days!!! LOL........

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shaddup, it's a few days after the first launch

Don't get me wrong, sometimes it's nice to do a good finish. Scale models (and the semi-scale ones) kind of suffer if the spirals on the BT are obvious. Sometimes you just feel like playing around and doing a fancy paint job.

But since many of mine get blown away in the wind, or land badly and get broken, I just don't have the heart to spend 472 hours putting a premium finish on a model and then destroying it on the second flight.

Originally posted by powderburner
I just don't have the heart to spend 472 hours putting a premium finish on a model and then destroying it on the second flight.

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Awwwwww, then you have no heart!

I know it does'nt take that much longer to get a good finish. If your already spending the time to paint it. Why not just take the extra time and do a good finish. Where it comes from is the primer and fill. It's not the last stage of the job. That will give you a good finish. It's what leads up to the last step. The paint coat goes on in just a few short minutes. So the finish come from the time spent on the fill and primer stages. For me most of the time it takes two days to finish a rocket. From the frist coat of primer to the last coat of paint. And most of that time is spent on the primer coats. On the avg. it takes two coats of primer and one coat of paint. to get a real good finish.My next rocket I'll do a post and give you all some Ideas on how I come up with a good finish.

I've gone in and loaded a few pictures of rockets. That I've painted the last few years. They are in the (flaming fat boy file.) Just to give you what sort of paint jobs a guy can come up with. If he's willing to spend some time with it. The short little rocket with the light Blue paint job. Was done in one day. https://photos.yahoo.com/rockets_r_us2

Originally posted by midpwrguy
I know it does'nt take that much longer to get a good finish.

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I built this one Sunday evening, and painted it yesterday. It is a Quest Superbird. The only prep work I did was on the fins, I applied label paper to them, and wicked some thin CA around the edges. Two coats primer sanded after each, two base coats blue, two coats black, and two clear coats. I use Duplicolor, and Plasti-kote lacquer paints from the auto stores. They dry very fast, have excellent gloss, are easy to apply, and have I ever mentioned they smell good?

There's a guy who launches with Stones and myself who has a fun solution that negates the need for filling altogether. He just cuts gift wrapping paper (holographic metallics look great!) to size and uses 3M spray adhesive to attach it to the BT and fins. He's gotten some pretty neat rockets using this technique and it stays put a lot better than the Estes pre-decorated stuff (ala Blue Ninja, etc.).

Guys:
I can't tell you how much time I've saved by NOT messing with, fillers for Balsa, basswood or the spiral wraps on the body tubes! Hi-build "Cheap" Grey or black automotive primers fill the bill in a maximum of three coats, about 15 minutes apart. sand almost everything off and apply a finish coat of white primer. sand with 320 and 600 grit. two coats of Krylon color, that's it. if you get a little orange-peel you don't like rub it out with 3M Finesse-it, apply decals and wax. The 3X Ram-Jet pictured below paint job was completed in one day, with one 12oz can of K-mart auto grey primer and about 1/2 an 11pz can of Krylon Orange. I think the silver is Testors. Decals for this one were hand cut black adhesive backed vinyl.
Oh, the fins are 3/32" basswood, sanded smooth with 240grit before applying the 3 coats of primer.

astrowolf67

what color blue is that superbird. A metallic blue? love it, pls let me know.


Thanks
Chuck