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A quick glance at their prices reveals that they are really overpriced. An Aerotech G-Force is $91. HobbyLinc sells it for $66. Others looked overpriced, too.
 
Bat-mite said:
A quick glance at their prices reveals that they are really overpriced. An Aerotech G-Force is $91. HobbyLinc sells it for $66. Others looked overpriced, too.
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They are not overpriced, but MSRP. Brick and mortar hobby shops do this from necessity to stay in business. Support your local hobby shop!!
 
Phil's has been a long standing hobby shop here in Ft. Wayne IN. Has been around nearly 50yrs. ! So I would believe there would be no problem ordering from them. However rocketry is not a big item for them. RC and trains are their main stay.

Dennis


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum
 
jimzcatz said:
They are not overpriced, but MSRP. Brick and mortar hobby shops do this from necessity to stay in business. Support your local hobby shop!!
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Why?? We all have choices if you chose to pay a ridiculous price for a kit got for it. Myself I would rather get the best price if that means shopping online for it.
 
They are local to me and I have been shopping at that store ever since I was a kid when Phil ran the one store on Lake Av here in Fort Wayne.

It sadden me when Phil passed. :( He was a great guy and always taken his time - even for kids. Heck he even let me fly a few of his RC planes behind Lakeside school with him. Great guy!


Anywho I have never dealt with the online side of their business, but in store they have always been focused on customer service and are always willing to go the extra mile for you. (Even if they dont carry it they will tell me where to find it here in FW)
 
AfterBurners said:
Why?? We all have choices if you chose to pay a ridiculous price for a kit got for it. Myself I would rather get the best price if that means shopping online for it.
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This archaic mindset is why we have fewer and fewer hobby shops left in this country. I wasnt suggesting you spend all of your hobby budget at a brick and mortar store, just toss em a few bucks every once in a while. Hell I spend hundreds online every year, but when given the chance,I will support the "little guys". What you do with your money is your own business. I'm just sayn!!
 
I have ordered from their e-bay store many times.. they always treat you right! never bought rocket stuff so I dont know on the price.. but service is great!
 
jimzcatz said:
This archaic mindset is why we have fewer and fewer hobby shops left in this country. I wasnt suggesting you spend all of your hobby budget at a brick and mortar store, just toss em a few bucks every once in a while. Hell I spend hundreds online every year, but when given the chance,I will support the "little guys". What you do with your money is your own business. I'm just sayn!!
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I do but not rocket stuff mostly RC stuff. I spent $123 this last Saturday on a new nitro motor for my truck. I like checking out the stuff they have, but online is just more convenient for me in most cases.

In general I buy a lot of things online from a variety of stores...I just don't like shopping much. Dealing with parking, gas and people...standing in line. Just so much easier online and takes less time, plus I like that you can easily compare prices from other sites.

Just saying ya know?
 
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AfterBurners said:
Why?? We all have choices if you chose to pay a ridiculous price for a kit got for it. Myself I would rather get the best price if that means shopping online for it.
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Because retail facilities cost significantly more than warehouse facilities -- a quick search tells me that decent retail space is roughly $13/sq ft. Warehouse space nationally averaged $4.84/sq ft in 2013.

A warehouse employee is typically doing nothing but filling orders. So, their time basically equates 100% to sales. In a retail establishment, you need to have people available to answer questions, and they're often going to spend time without making a sale.

Then there are the people who will go into a retail establishment, look through the merchandise, ask the sales staff questions....then go buy it online for less. But they've just cost the retail establishment money.

Nobody running a brick & mortar hobby shop is getting rich. They're putting in long hours and not making a lot.

Saying they're "gouging" because they're charging MSRP is horribly unfair, and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how retail works.

-Kevin
 
troj said:
Because retail facilities cost significantly more than warehouse facilities -- a quick search tells me that decent retail space is roughly $13/sq ft. Warehouse space nationally averaged $4.84/sq ft in 2013.

A warehouse employee is typically doing nothing but filling orders. So, their time basically equates 100% to sales. In a retail establishment, you need to have people available to answer questions, and they're often going to spend time without making a sale.

Then there are the people who will go into a retail establishment, look through the merchandise, ask the sales staff questions....then go buy it online for less. But they've just cost the retail establishment money.

Nobody running a brick & mortar hobby shop is getting rich. They're putting in long hours and not making a lot.

Saying they're "gouging" because they're charging MSRP is horribly unfair, and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how retail works.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

BTW Kevin you're right...not sayin you're not but

I'm so sorry I offended so many people but the bottom line is that most people don't really care about the cost of running a business (Yes I am one of them) whether it's a free standing warehouse / store or an online business. They go for the lowest prices end of story!! That's just technology people and the sooner you wake up and smell the coffee the sooner you will realize that these establishments won't be around forever no matter how fond you are of them. They close the doors because they have to compete with the millions of online stores that pop up everyday. It's competition and its dog eat dog...I know you don't like to hear it and it's a hard pill for you to swallow, but open wide cause it's gonna come whether you like it or not. Maybe not today, tomorrow, next week or a year,but it will happen. It's an ever evolving machine (technology) and if it can make someones life easier and more efficient or cost less it will win. Now chew on that for awhile and tell me how you like it. Not to go on, but owners of hobby shops aren't the only ones losing their lively hood. Next time you go in the store how self check out registers do you see? Less money to have one than a warm body to greet you. All you got to do is look around.


Gee
 
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AfterBurners said:
Gee Wizzzz I'm so sorry I offended so many people but the bottom line is that most people don't really care about the cost of running a business whether it's a free standing warehouse / store or online business. They go for the lowest prices end of story!! That's technology people and the sooner you wake up and smell the coffee the sooner you will realize that this establishments won't be around forever!! They close the doors because they have to compete with the millions of online stores that pop up. It's competition and it's dog eat dog...I know you don't like to hear and it's a hard pill for you to swallow, but open wide cause it's come whether you like it or not. Maybe not today, tomorrow, next week or a year,but it will happen. It's an ever evolving machine (technology) and if he can make someones life easier and more efficient or cost less it will will win. Now chew on that for awhile and tell me how you like it.
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Tell ya what, if you think it's so great, go a month. Just one month, without buying anything from a retail establishment. Buy everything you use online, including having it shipped to you.

-Kevin
 
troj said:
Tell ya what, if you think it's so great, go a month. Just one month, without buying anything from a retail establishment. Buy everything you use online, including having it shipped to you.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Within reason I have already had several things shipped. The only thing I haven't because I don't think you can is groceries and obviously gas.

Face it technology has greatly changed the way we live today. Hey Kevin why don't you live without your cell phone for month and tell me how much you like it or your computer? You wouldn't be on this forum would you? A lot of the things we have from technology we take for granted. Hey man its just the way life is... it's finding that balance.

If these brick and mortar hobby shops want to stay in business then they should also get an online website (if they haven't already) and start advertising and selling their products online as well ----at reasonable prices like everyone else. If they don't then they are the ones to blame for their business going under. Not us for lack of support....so don't give me this line of BS that we should support them. They need to get with the program and wake up and smell the coffee. I'm going to go out and buy a kit and pay $30 more for it because I'm suppose to have some kind of obligation for these businesses. Really! :lol: I buy because of two things. Reasonable / low prices and great service!!:wave: If a business can't offer that then I go elsewhere.

It is what it is...
 
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No one has an obligation (legal or moral) to support local hobby shops. It's morally dubious to ask for help at a local shop, then buy the product you discovered there online, but if you never use a local shop you don't owe them anything.

I personally support local shops when I can because I can grab something without having to wait for it to be shipped and there are often knowledgable people working there. If you focus only on price, you necessarily give up other benefits. Big retailers (Walmart, Amazon) train us that only price matters, but be sure that's really true for you before you lose other options.
 
JohnCoker said:
No one has an obligation (legal or moral) to support local hobby shops. It's morally dubious to ask for help at a local shop, then buy the product you discovered there online, but if you never use a local shop you don't owe them anything.

I personally support local shops when I can because I can grab something without having to wait for it to be shipped and there are often knowledgable people working there. If you focus only on price, you necessarily give up other benefits. Big retailers (Walmart, Amazon) train us that only price matters, but be sure that's really true for you before you lose other options.
Click to expand...

A very reasonable answer, and true, I think.

I buy things like CA glue and epoxy at a local shop because the price of shipping would double the cost. But for something that costs $30 less online, even if the shipping is $10, I save $20. $20 will buy a Pro-29 motor casing. That's like getting a free motor casing for buying at an online store instead of a walk-in store.

But if I wanted to buy, say, a motorized model airplane and had lots of questions, I would go to a local shop, and if they were helpful, I would buy it from them as a thank you for being helpful and giving me confidence in my purchase, even if the cost was a little more.
 
I too have ordered from them for various hobby items and have always had a good experience.


Bat-mite said:
But if I wanted to buy, say, a motorized model airplane and had lots of questions, I would go to a local shop, and if they were helpful, I would buy it from them as a thank you for being helpful and giving me confidence in my purchase, even if the cost was a little more.
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I agree... When you do that your getting the first hand help you need and the extra cost is paying for their knowledge, expertise and time spent with you. Alas too many of these great hobby shops are going away. Stanton's in Chicago and Al's Hobby Shop outside of Chicago (just recently) just to name a couple. I got lot's of help and advice from those two shops over the years.

Ed
 
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JohnCoker said:
No one has an obligation (legal or moral) to support local hobby shops. It's morally dubious to ask for help at a local shop, then buy the product you discovered there online, but if you never use a local shop you don't owe them anything.

I personally support local shops when I can because I can grab something without having to wait for it to be shipped and there are often knowledgable people working there. If you focus only on price, you necessarily give up other benefits. Big retailers (Walmart, Amazon) train us that only price matters, but be sure that's really true for you before you lose other options.
Click to expand...

Everyone here seems to think that we "all" must in some way support the local hobby shop. I don't and I won't. I see nothing wrong with buying from online vendors because it's not the local shops we support, but the hobby itself. If the online vendor has a brick and mortar shop then whatever. You guys need to pull your head out the sand and wake up. I don't appreciate people stating that we should spend our money at brick mortar establishments whether it's 10% or 100%. It's your decision to do what you want to do, which I'll do exactly what I want to do. If I can get the best price online you bet I'll do it. You guys go ahead and pay the MSRP and I'll go for the discounts. Money I save I'll spend at another online store. For me it's how much you can get for as little as possible.

So when the Black Friday and Saturday sales come around why don't you guys stay off your computers and run down to your local hobby shops and buy the same kits you would online. How many of you are going to do that...you won't because the same people on here are the same ones who brag at what a great deal they got on line. You guys are hilarious!! :rofl::rofl:
 
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A lot of the same arguments could be made for buying/not buying American-made products. Or for companies "buying" American labor. Your mindset (lowest price) would buy everything from China and move all manufacturing there as well. I bet the company you work for could get your job done cheaper overseas...
Just sayin'
NikeMikey
 
NikeMikey said:
A lot of the same arguments could be made for buying/not buying American-made products. Or for companies "buying" American labor. Your mindset (lowest price) would buy everything from China and move all manufacturing there as well. I bet the company you work for could get your job done cheaper overseas...
Just sayin'
NikeMikey
Click to expand...

Exactly! Everyone's job can be done for cheaper...

It's something we deal with every single day...no one has to like it, but it happens.
 
Like Afterburners, I too am in the computer industry (software). I've done quite well cleaning up the messes created by cheap overseas labor.

The main problem I have with Hobby stores, is I always find things I didn't know I wanted/needed. This past weekend I stopped in a Hobbytown just to see what rocketry goods were in. Ended up buying a spare parachute for the launch bag... and a couple of old time balsa biplane gliders... and a couple balsa model airplanes (Spitfire and Hellcat). (They were $15 each, how much work could they be... Now I'm waiting for my online order of something called "clear dope" and thinner to arrive.)

The biplanes were for my nieces. They turned out to be a good plan B because it was too windy to launch.
 
But remember, the OP was asking about buying from this store online, not as a walk-in. If you're going to buy online, go with the cheapest total price. Way different from walking in and asking questions.
 
It might be unrealistic to think that buying local will benefit anyone, but I try to buy locally in the city live in (if available). I am hoping by doing so i might be able to keep a few more sales tax dollars in my home town, that would in turn be reinvested locally. I am lucky that I am in a service industry and so far no one has figured out how to "ship" onsite labor. I have customers that purchase repair parts online, at first I resisted installing them, then began installing them. I am not happy about the lost profit but not being willing to install things purchased on the internet would have led to a loss of profit on a larger scale. I am expressing my opinion and not preaching or being hypocritical saying I don't purchase on the internet to get a deal. Fortunately or unfortunately the internet is here to stay. I agree with John C. that it is wrong to go to a store use it as a showroom ask a lot of questions and then go on the internet. I am not trying to give you a hard time Afterburners, I really enjoy seeing other peoples point of view, sometimes it shows me something I had not thought of.
One last thing if there was not any local commerce, then the burden of paying for the infrastructure might shift over to taxes being raised, services being cut back, and a general state of complete disrepair:p. I temper my opinion with moderation as opposed to extremes of "everyone, always, never etc. we have choices and have to go with what works for us and if your choice is different from mine it does not make your or my choice wrong.
 
Bat-mite said:
A very reasonable answer, and true, I think.

I buy things like CA glue and epoxy at a local shop because the price of shipping would double the cost. But for something that costs $30 less online, even if the shipping is $10, I save $20. $20 will buy a Pro-29 motor casing. That's like getting a free motor casing for buying at an online store instead of a walk-in store.

But if I wanted to buy, say, a motorized model airplane and had lots of questions, I would go to a local shop, and if they were helpful, I would buy it from them as a thank you for being helpful and giving me confidence in my purchase, even if the cost was a little more.
Click to expand...

Finally someone actually gets it. Well said!
 
Well my local hobby shop it's 20 miles away and I'm not one for using gas so I usually order and since I'm cheap I use the cheapest shipping... When I go buy parts for my buggy or AR I'll take the time to go th the hobby shop or gun store for that so I don't have to wait... Since the question is how good is Phil's hobby shop I ordered something and received it a week later great service to me.
 
I order almost all rocketry items online. Other stuff from Vendors at launches.

Brick and mortar for rocketry is best for introducing new people. One near me sells almost all RTF rockets. People don't want to build with their kids - kits that require work sit on shelves. They get high turnover of new people buying on a whim that never stick with it. Rocketry is not one of the big sellers - Trains and R/C are much bigger.

I used to get epoxy and CA at mine, then they were always out. Maybe I was the only person that bought it? I switched to Lowes for in stock, then online for a better price in a 6-pack.

For a small population of serious flyers. Say 5000 NAR and TRA combined . .. 100 per state? I do not think we are the ones keeping them in business.
 
Getting back to the original poster's question, I've dealt with Phil's for special orders and found them to be very easy to deal with and extremely reliable. They're in Indiana and I'm in Michigan so everything was over the phone. My questions were answered immediately, items arrived well packed and quickly shipped. Very nice to deal with directly.

As for Brick-and-mortar vs. Internet vendors, I recently ran across one of Phil's ebay auctions and was shocked to see their number of feedbacks, "232,606." Largest I've ever seen on ebay. Turns out they sell roughly 1,000 items per month on ebay with a 99.5% satisfaction rate. They currently have over 46,000 items listed on ebay (yes, you read that number right), over half of which are RC parts and accessories. So getting back to the original poster's question, have no concerns about dealing with Phil's.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/philshobbyshop/m.html?

Steve
 
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accpool said:
It might be unrealistic to think that buying local will benefit anyone, but I try to buy locally in the city live in (if available). I am hoping by doing so i might be able to keep a few more sales tax dollars in my home town, that would in turn be reinvested locally. I am lucky that I am in a service industry and so far no one has figured out how to "ship" onsite labor. I have customers that purchase repair parts online, at first I resisted installing them, then began installing them. I am not happy about the lost profit but not being willing to install things purchased on the internet would have led to a loss of profit on a larger scale. I am expressing my opinion and not preaching or being hypocritical saying I don't purchase on the internet to get a deal. Fortunately or unfortunately the internet is here to stay. I agree with John C. that it is wrong to go to a store use it as a showroom ask a lot of questions and then go on the internet. I am not trying to give you a hard time Afterburners, I really enjoy seeing other peoples point of view, sometimes it shows me something I had not thought of.
One last thing if there was not any local commerce, then the burden of paying for the infrastructure might shift over to taxes being raised, services being cut back, and a general state of complete disrepair:p. I temper my opinion with moderation as opposed to extremes of "everyone, always, never etc. we have choices and have to go with what works for us and if your choice is different from mine it does not make your or my choice wrong.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you look at your state's laws, you are probably required to pay a "use" tax, equal to the sales tax amount, on anything you buy in another state where you are not charged sales tax. Everyone thinks buying online somehow exempts you from sales tax, but it isn't true. If you buy online in Indiana but receive and use the product in Ohio, then you are supposed to report the purchase to Ohio state govt. and pay the equivalent use tax.

Before everyone starts calling me an A-Ho, look up your state's laws.
 
Bat-mite said:
Actually, if you look at your state's laws, you are probably required to pay a "use" tax, equal to the sales tax amount, on anything you buy in another state where you are not charged sales tax. Everyone thinks buying online somehow exempts you from sales tax, but it isn't true. If you buy online in Indiana but receive and use the product in Ohio, then you are supposed to report the purchase to Ohio state govt. and pay the equivalent use tax.

Before everyone starts calling me an A-Ho, look up your state's laws.
Click to expand...

Bat-mite, while you are technically correct, those use taxes are all but unenforceable. The majority of purchasers don't pay them when owed (yet strangely I would have no idea who those folks are :) )

So in fact (if not if in law), local merchants selling to locals are subsidizing internet merchants selling to other states. Changing this situation requires that state governments eliminate sales taxes entirely :flyingpig: or governments strongarm internet merchants into collecting sales taxes.
 

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