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  1. #1
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    8th October 2014
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    Cool SHADETREE ROCKETRY..LOC 4-29SS Airstart mod

    With odds n ends laying around. Im trying to use supplies / left overs to do the retro fitting done. Example - I'm using a piece of 3" airframe to make a coupler which will house the electronics( not leftovers or scrap...lol.. ) Due to the altitudes that this rocket will now achieve it will also be Dual-Deploy. The coupler will have a MissileWorks PET2 timer and a MissileWorks RRC2+ Alt. Where the new coupler is cut into place is where the drogue will deploy and then the main will blow out the nose.. Motor deploy drogue.
    Here are the starting pics. I have already hacked up this rocket before after a crazy(ed) mishap. When I get to proceed , I will post and try to get those pics in right.

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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    20th February 2009
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    I did my airstart via side hatch mounted electronics at top of MMTs and dual deploy via tether with and electronics located in NC. With that setup you avoid adding any weight/length penalty from extra bay.

    From the Ether...

    L3, TRA #11847
    Tripoli Indiana #132
    Tripoli Central Illinois #59
    Central Illinois Aerospace (NAR) #527
    Chicago Rocket Mafia, "Big Bucks" Dixon
    ___________________________________

    Quiet little voices creep into my head. -- We Were Promised Jetpacks

  3. #3
    Join Date
    26th May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixontj93060 View Post
    I did my airstart via side hatch mounted electronics at top of MMTs and dual deploy via tether with and electronics located in NC. With that setup you avoid adding any weight/length penalty from extra bay.

    From the Ether...
    Which electronics/battery are you using for this? Will a 9V fit in a 29mm tube? Never tried...

  4. #4
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    The fertile fields of Malta, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixontj93060 View Post
    I did my airstart via side hatch mounted electronics at top of MMTs and dual deploy via tether with and electronics located in NC. With that setup you avoid adding any weight/length penalty from extra bay.

    From the Ether...
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeRoc29 View Post
    Which electronics/battery are you using for this? Will a 9V fit in a 29mm tube? Never tried...
    Since I have Tim's 4-29 now, I can (someday...) take pictures of the empty bits. There's no electronics installed yet. I'm gonna try to put a Marsa pyro board where Tim had the timer. I planed on cutting it in half to put in an AV bay, but I'm not sure the Marsa will fit in the LOC 3" AV bay (at least the way I set up AV bays...). And now with the Jolly Logic Chute Release, I may just do motor deploy. I still might get a small timer to do air starts instead of lighting all four at once.
    Adrian Butler
    jd2cylman@mchsi (dot) com
    NAR 73787 L3
    Tripoli 13524 L3
    QCRS, Princeton, IL
    Chicago Rocket Mafia "The Mechanic"

    Buckle up back there, we're going into "Hyperactive!"

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixontj93060 View Post
    I did my airstart via side hatch mounted electronics at top of MMTs and dual deploy via tether with and electronics located in NC. With that setup you avoid adding any weight/length penalty from extra bay.
    I lied. Nosecone only contained a tracker. All cluster control and dual-deploy was done mid-airframe by a Raven3 (see here: http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...070#post393070)
    L3, TRA #11847
    Tripoli Indiana #132
    Tripoli Central Illinois #59
    Central Illinois Aerospace (NAR) #527
    Chicago Rocket Mafia, "Big Bucks" Dixon
    ___________________________________

    Quiet little voices creep into my head. -- We Were Promised Jetpacks

  6. #6
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeRoc29 View Post
    Which electronics/battery are you using for this? Will a 9V fit in a 29mm tube? Never tried...
    Yes
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixontj93060 View Post
    I lied. Nosecone only contained a tracker. All cluster control and dual-deploy was done mid-airframe by a Raven3 (see here: http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...070#post393070)
    Nice...and I would love to go that route But Im commited to what I have available for parts. MCGYVER style (kind of ) these cardboard rings will be soaked in epoxy 2 and 2..2 stacked for each end. With a strip of wood going across , epoxied and drilled for the rods...I have used this type with good continued success with dual deploy and up to H180 motors in another rocket...(my A/T MIRAGE built up for high power)
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd2cylman View Post
    Since I have Tim's 4-29 now, I can (someday...) take pictures of the empty bits. There's no electronics installed yet. I'm gonna try to put a Marsa pyro board where Tim had the timer. I planed on cutting it in half to put in an AV bay, but I'm not sure the Marsa will fit in the LOC 3" AV bay (at least the way I set up AV bays...). And now with the Jolly Logic Chute Release, I may just do motor deploy. I still might get a small timer to do air starts instead of lighting all four at once.
    Right on....my 4-29 has been hacked on before...so it didnt hurt so much cutting it this time...it is still not beyond going back . My bay is going in at about 1/4 way down from nose. Due to tube strengtheners in the lower 2/3 rds.
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    Coupler work...cut down the 3" loc tube to fit as a coupler inside the SS. The bulk heads started. Coupler gets superglue soak and sanded for smooth operation.
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  10. #10
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    8th October 2014
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    Yep....Im going to have to make stronger bulkheads...
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  11. #11
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    Wheels are turning...lol.. mount timer exterior( removable) cover made of a 1/2 nose cone. The battery mountedon the other side and covered with the second 1/2 of the nose cone. Deployment mounted in the coupler still.
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  12. #12
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    Now I think not. I can drill holes for programing but then it leaves the timer vulnerable to dirt and such. So back to the drawing board.
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  13. #13
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    . Timer in the motor tube I can make a suitable hatch and seal the timer and the battery from any gases. This is one of the plugged motor tubes.. Run each starter wire down to the airstart motors. .
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  14. #14
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    Battery rest epoxied in
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  15. #15
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    And so here is where the timer is being installed. Tempoarily the starters for the 2 airstart motors will run down motor tubes to the motors. .The battery is below the timer.The timer is set to light em at 2 seconds after the burnout of the primaries. The dual deploy is in the coupler. All I need to happen for sure is both primary motors light at the same time...I have got that down and havent had a problem. Then the rocket needs to hit 1,000 ft to initiate the RCC2+ If for some reason the airstarts are very late starting and the rocket is pointing down if they light at least the RCC2+ will fire the deployment , seperating
    the rocket as the motors burn. It will flop around at 800 ft and come ( not ballistic). In. Maybe with a chute, maybe not.
    If everything is right at apogee I will get a drogue 3k ft and a main at 800.....more to come..
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  16. #16
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    Some more advise please...It seems that the heat from the firing motors could have an effect on the igniters for the airstart motors..do the igniters need some kind of protection. The wire shielding melt ? If so Im sure the wire itself would be fine . The igniters yes,will be trimmed to fit .But any help here?
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  17. #17
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    I see I havent posted the motor combo for this project...I currently want the primary motors to be H115's or H128 motors...leaning towards H128's. Airstart motors the cirst time around will be G57 or G64 reloads. Without running a sim yet , I'm feeling 3800 ft with the combination.using H128's...
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyed View Post
    Some more advise please...It seems that the heat from the firing motors could have an effect on the igniters for the airstart motors..do the igniters need some kind of protection. The wire shielding melt ? If so Im sure the wire itself would be fine . The igniters yes,will be trimmed to fit .But any help here?
    I haven't had any trouble with the insulation being damaged. Just cover the leads with masking tape to keep them out of the way of the launch motors.
    -Ken

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by new2hpr View Post
    I haven't had any trouble with the insulation being damaged. Just cover the leads with masking tape to keep them out of the way of the launch motors.
    -Ken
    Right on and thanks...Today I did a test with the timer installed to be sure the timer would fire 2 starters at once..and be sure I understood the instrutions for programing.....it fired perfectly..
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  20. #20
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    AV bay/ coupler and elaectronics for the dual deploy.
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  21. #21
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    Better pic of the missileworks setup
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  22. #22
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    Better pic of the missileworks setup ooops...next post
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  23. #23
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    Better pic of the missileworks setup
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  24. #24
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    just on a break for the Holidays

    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

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