Level 3 Build "The Grand Optimist" Ultimate Wildman

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Cant wait to see this baby fly Jeff. No better place than Airfest to do a cert flight. Happy landings!
 
bill2654 said:
Cant wait to see this baby fly Jeff. No better place than Airfest to do a cert flight. Happy landings!
Click to expand...

Thanks Bill. Confidence is pretty high on this flight but you know how that goes, I'll be very happy to see smoke/fire-little chute-big chute :)

I'm trying to figure out what else I'm going to bring and fly, can't waste that field on just one launch. I also have to save a few big motors for High Frontier at the end of September.
 
I made one last minute addition to the rocket before packing it up for Airfest. I picked up a Mobius camera Friday from Amazon but I wasn't sure I could get a shroud in time for this launch. A few emails to Andrew at Additive Aerospace and it was on it's way, that was some great service...thanks! Hope to get some good on board video for a change.

20160830_205821.jpg
 
Good luck on the flight Poker! I take you got the motor built with no issues.
 
PokerJones said:
I made one last minute addition to the rocket before packing it up for Airfest. I picked up a Mobius camera Friday from Amazon but I wasn't sure I could get a shroud in time for this launch. A few emails to Andrew at Additive Aerospace and it was on it's way, that was some great service...thanks! Hope to get some good on board video for a change.
Click to expand...

Remind me to set up the GoPro at the pad for your L3 flight.
 
I tried to make it short but it is kind of a long story

Saturday morning at Airfest was a bit overcast with winds out of the south 7-12 mph. I began my prep/assembly of the rocket around 9:30 am and shortly after my two TAPS from North Texas showed up for a little moral support and to witness/sign off on the L3 flight. Thanks a million for making that long drive and for all of your help with launch and recovery.

Everything was going smoothly as I marked off items on my pre-flight checklist (I made 3 dry runs at home so this was going quickly) until I did a test on the altimeters. Turned the first schurter switch on and altimeter 1 began it's pre-flight check. Turned the second schurter switch on and altimeter 2 began beeping out the pre-flight check and then shutoff. I opened up the ebay and turned off altimeter 1, I began jiggling wires to see where the short was. It was in the post of switch number 2, moving the wire around caused the altimeter to come on and shut off. Not good.

Since I was getting a bit flustered at this point, one of my TAPS suggested cutting the wires from both switches and going to the tried and true method of twist and tape, I agreed it was the quickest and easiest solution being in the field without a soldering gun. I pulled the sled, I attached the wires, ran them trough two of the vent holes, taped them down and then put the sled back into the ebay and sealed it up.

We drove the rocket out to the away cells and got it on the rail, fired up the altimeters, turned on the mobius camera, installed the igniter and waited for the countdown. The M1315 lit immediately and lifted the rocket in a cloud of smoke and flame on it's way to 7000', beautiful straight boost even as the wind was picking up to around 15 mph. We watched it arc over at apogee and saw the deployment charge fire and it was under parachute, sweet! After a few seconds I realized something was wrong, that's not the drogue... the main was out with the nosecone but as it got lower I could still see the booster/payload in one piece? WTH just happened? At 1100' the second charge blew and the drogue came out...wow did I wire the altimeters backwards??? I know I didn't??? How is this even possible? I looked over at my TAP and said "well, I guess that's a fail" His reply "yep".

I recovered the rocket about 2 miles away with the help of the GPS (I never would have seen it again without the tracker), it was in the middle of a corn and sorghum field that was so thick it was nearly impossible to move through (nastiest stuff on the planet BTW, seriously)

After finally getting back and opening the ebay I realized I didn't wire the altimeters wrong...I PUT THE SLED IN BACKWARDS AFTER CHANGING THE SWITCHES (drogue charges facing up). Oh brother, that was a damn stupid mistake that was! After the initial disappointment and the "I can't believe this just happened" wore off, I'm really not too upset. After all it basically just made for a really long walk and a little embarrassment, but it does go to show you what one small brain freeze will do when you are assembling rockets and get distracted. The good news is The Grand Optimist is in perfect condition without so much as a scratch.

I will try to fly again in Asa Texas at the HOTROCs field sometime in October for my L3.

I have a pretty decent video from the Mobius onboard camera I will post up later. I also have a few a pre-flight pics but none of the lift off, waiting on my friends for those.

Oh, PS...don't use Schurter switches!!! I am going to replace all of the ones I have.
 
PokerJones said:
I tried to make it short but it is kind of a long story

Saturday morning at Airfest was a bit overcast with winds out of the south 7-12 mph. I began my prep/assembly of the rocket around 9:30 am and shortly after my two TAPS from North Texas showed up for a little moral support and to witness/sign off on the L3 flight. Thanks a million for making that long drive and for all of your help with launch and recovery.

Everything was going smoothly as I marked off items on my pre-flight checklist (I made 3 dry runs at home so this was going quickly) until I did a test on the altimeters. Turned the first schurter switch on and altimeter 1 began it's pre-flight check. Turned the second schurter switch on and altimeter 2 began beeping out the pre-flight check and then shutoff. I opened up the ebay and turned off altimeter 1, I began jiggling wires to see where the short was. It was in the post of switch number 2, moving the wire around caused the altimeter to come on and shut off. Not good.

Since I was getting a bit flustered at this point, one of my TAPS suggested cutting the wires from both switches and going to the tried and true method of twist and tape, I agreed it was the quickest and easiest solution being in the field without a soldering gun. I pulled the sled, I attached the wires, ran them trough two of the vent holes, taped them down and then put the sled back into the ebay and sealed it up.

We drove the rocket out to the away cells and got it on the rail, fired up the altimeters, turned on the mobius camera, installed the igniter and waited for the countdown. The M1315 lit immediately and lifted the rocket in a cloud of smoke and flame on it's way to 7000', beautiful straight boost even as the wind was picking up to around 15 mph. We watched it arc over at apogee and saw the deployment charge fire and it was under parachute, sweet! After a few seconds I realized something was wrong, that's not the drogue... the main was out with the nosecone but as it got lower I could still see the booster/payload in one piece? WTH just happened? At 1100' the second charge blew and the drogue came out...wow did I wire the altimeters backwards??? I know I didn't??? How is this even possible? I looked over at my TAP and said "well, I guess that's a fail" His reply "yep".

I recovered the rocket about 2 miles away with the help of the GPS (I never would have seen it again without the tracker), it was in the middle of a corn and sorghum field that was so thick it was nearly impossible to move through (nastiest stuff on the planet BTW, seriously)

After finally getting back and opening the ebay I realized I didn't wire the altimeters wrong...I PUT THE SLED IN BACKWARDS AFTER CHANGING THE SWITCHES (drogue charges facing up). Oh brother, that was a damn stupid mistake that was! After the initial disappointment and the "I can't believe this just happened" wore off, I'm really not too upset. After all it basically just made for a really long walk and a little embarrassment, but it does go to show you what one small brain freeze will do when you are assembling rockets and get distracted. The good news is The Grand Optimist is in perfect condition without so much as a scratch.

I will try to fly again in Asa Texas at the HOTROCs field sometime in October for my L3.

I have a pretty decent video from the Mobius onboard camera I will post up later. I also have a few a pre-flight pics but none of the lift off, waiting on my friends for those.

Oh, PS...don't use Schurter switches!!! I am going to replace all of the ones I have.
Click to expand...

Oh man does this ring a bell with me. First off great write up and thanks for sharing.

I had this same experience with my L2 rocket, except I opted to launch it twice before my L2 attempt, in what I called shakedown flights. At the time there were a few comments about why risk your L2 rocket, however those two checkout flights were instrumental in getting my L2, and had I not done them it would of ended differently. My first checkout flight is when I installed the sled backwards and also popped the main at apogee, but it was only 3,600 AGL, so not too bad of a walk. The second was when I realized my recovery choices were off and I used the dual altimeter and GPS data to dial them in.

The change I made to my AV bay was key the entire bay, literally a 3 year old could put this thing together correctly now as it can only assemble one way.
 
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Here's a couple of pictures I got.

Jeff and son (Randy) hitching a ride with Paul out to the pads.
DSC_0787.jpg

Lift off.
DSC_0880.jpg
 
Oh man Jeff..
First, , great write up..
But more importantly, , I've said this before, ,
this is what I love about rocketry, ,
it's just so easy to make the simplest mistake. ...
Rocketry for me is all about attention to detail. .
And yes,, I'm as usual totally in agreement with Michael P,,
My av bays will only go together one way also...
Everything is well marked and keyed.....
No matter Jeff, ,,
This makes a perfect flight an even higher likelihood next time...

Teddy
 
Last edited:
When I read elsewhere you didn't make you L3 I almost didn't open this thread. I feared the worst as I tend to do. I am VERY glad to hear your L3 project is in perfect shape ready for its next flight.
 
That was a bummer Jeff. I saw how tall that corn/milo field was and I don't envy you there. I know you'll succeed in Oct in Tex. Looking forward to seeing you at High Frontier. BTW CJ called me Sunday night and said he had my Punisher nose cone was found! I see you changed your avatar too. :wink:
 
bill2654 said:
That was a bummer Jeff. I saw how tall that corn/milo field was and I don't envy you there. I know you'll succeed in Oct in Tex. Looking forward to seeing you at High Frontier. BTW CJ called me Sunday night and said he had my Punisher nose cone was found! I see you changed your avatar too. :wink:
Click to expand...

Glad you found the Punisher NC Bill. I will see you in a few weeks at High Frontier with another bunch of rockets! Speaking of avatars...nice one
 
rfjustin said:
I see you ended up using the Schurter 110/220 switches, correct?

Nice boost and flight! :)
Click to expand...

I have had the Schurters installed on the rocket since I built it but after they failed the pre-flight check I cut the wires and used twist and tape on this flight. The Schurter switches are now in the trash.

I wish you had been there, I only have one crappy video of the flight from the ground that my son took, I was too busy watching to worry about that. Maybe you should teach a "Rocket Video 101 class", my son could be your first student, easy money :p
 
Sorry to hear that Jeff, it is easy to do. I've started making numbered indentions and female plugs on drogue side and make on payload of the AV BAY but nothing on the sled so side could still reverse it. Maybe I will key as well - specifically the sled. My L2 is only one way on the AV (keyed in the switch band).
Sorry for your mishap, glad the rocket is in good condition, that would have been horrible -
 
Regrets on the failure. Glad you will get to try again!

About GPS recovery -- I am always amazed when my unit walks me right to the rocket. It is so cool to get a set of coordinates, plug them into the navigator, and take off walking. But boy does it stink when you get there, and the rocket isn't.

This just goes to show you how complicated a dual deployment flight can be. Even with a thorough checklist, things like this can happen, as you realized. Bummer.
 
BTW, I use wiring kits from Doghouse. They are color coded. So it is a quick visual check to say, "Purple to purple, blue to blue, orange to orange, brown to brown. Ready to roll!" I can shove my sled in any old way I want to, although I try to keep the battery leads pointed down so that the acceleration force helps keep them in contact with the connector.
 
Bat-mite said:
BTW, I use wiring kits from Doghouse. They are color coded. So it is a quick visual check to say, "Purple to purple, blue to blue, orange to orange, brown to brown. Ready to roll!" I can shove my sled in any old way I want to, although I try to keep the battery leads pointed down so that the acceleration force helps keep them in contact with the connector.[/QUOTE

I also use the Doghouse colored wire with the locking connectors for my AV Bay, really good stuff. The layout really is pretty well marked for connections and direction.

20160531_150504.jpg

The problem seems to be that the sled/all-thread/connected bulkhead can be inserted into the AV coupler from either end, my only reference for direction was the lettering on the rocket. I had this correct before I had to remove the sled and deal with the Schurter switch issue. Grrr!
20160531_150958.jpg


That has been addressed by clearly marking the edges of the coupler for M & D. I have also made an addition to my pre-flight checklist that will prevent this from ever happening again. Check orientation!

AV/Bay Prep
Install (2) Altimeters on sled
Test (2) 9v batteries with meter, install on sled
Attach (4) e matches to (4) charge canisters, tape
Attach (4) e matches to terminal blocks
Test (4) e matches for continuity/resistance at Terminal Block
Measure, Load Primary (5G) and Back up (6G) 4F BP Charges
Connect (2) Batteries to the (2) Altimeters
Connect (4) E Matches to the Altimeter
Connect (2) Switches in “OFF” position to Altimeters
Seal and Secure the AV Bay CHECK ORIENTATION-MAIN UP
Click to expand...
 
PokerJones said:
How is this even possible? I looked over at my TAP and said "well, I guess that's a fail" His reply "yep".
Click to expand...

Are you saying that you failed because the main came out at apogee?

I thought that the TAPs would have stopped enforcing that after it was removed from the official criteria. Which was at least seven years ago.
 
PokerJones said:
BTW, I use wiring kits from Doghouse. They are color coded. So it is a quick visual check to say, "Purple to purple, blue to blue, orange to orange, brown to brown. Ready to roll!" I can shove my sled in any old way I want to, although I try to keep the battery leads pointed down so that the acceleration force helps keep them in contact with the connector.[/QUOTE

I also use the Doghouse colored wire with the locking connectors for my AV Bay, really good stuff. The layout really is pretty well marked for connections and direction.

View attachment 300911

The problem seems to be that the sled/all-thread/connected bulkhead can be inserted into the AV coupler from either end, my only reference for direction was the lettering on the rocket. I had this correct before I had to remove the sled and deal with the Schurter switch issue. Grrr!
View attachment 300914


That has been addressed by clearly marking the edges of the coupler for M & D. I have also made an addition to my pre-flight checklist that will prevent this from ever happening again. Check orientation!

AV/Bay Prep
Install (2) Altimeters on sled
Test (2) 9v batteries with meter, install on sled
Attach (4) e matches to (4) charge canisters, tape
Attach (4) e matches to terminal blocks
Test (4) e matches for continuity/resistance at Terminal Block
Measure, Load Primary (5G) and Back up (6G) 4F BP Charges
Connect (2) Batteries to the (2) Altimeters
Connect (4) E Matches to the Altimeter
Connect (2) Switches in “OFF” position to Altimeters
Seal and Secure the AV Bay CHECK ORIENTATION-MAIN UP
Click to expand...

Very nice work!
 
that could have ended badly if the drogue charge hadn't been big enough to deploy the main. glad everything is in good shape, better luck next time.
Rex
 
UhClem said:
Are you saying that you failed because the main came out at apogee?

I thought that the TAPs would have stopped enforcing that after it was removed from the official criteria. Which was at least seven years ago.
Click to expand...

That's one of the vagaries they let the TRA TAPs get away with still. But....................Technically if the rocket lands outside the radius of the official FAA waiver it's considered a failed flight even if both events occurred correctly and nominally. I don't know what the radius of the waiver is at the Airfest site. Place I fly has a 1 mile radius and 15k waiver but if one is doing an L3 attempt with a 4" rocket they might want to go elsewhere with a wider radius. Even with a baby M a project like that is
going to go close to the waiver.

I'm not a TAP or L3 but personally believe (and I know that doesn't matter) if there's a main at apogee AND the rocket touches down within the waiver zone it should be a free pass to sign it off and bestow the L3. Of course the rocket has to be flyable again and pass that muster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are going to be hard A's who are going rant, "It didn't fly as planned." but it had a safe flight with reversed events I doubt the flier will ever let that happen again. The kicker here is the thing
has to land within the waiver zone. Chances are main at apogee events are going to drift outside the waiver and if that happened here so be it. Nice thing that rocket is in fine shape and is one heck of a camera rocket Jeff.

I suspect unless you never intended to fly an M motor again it's not that big of a deal to you. There's a thread on those switches here: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?136010-Perfectflite-Schurter-switch-notice. Best of luck on the next shot. I bet it will be a perfect one. Kurt
 
UhClem said:
Are you saying that you failed because the main came out at apogee?

I thought that the TAPs would have stopped enforcing that after it was removed from the official criteria. Which was at least seven years ago.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that main deployment at apogee was ok if the force of the drogue pulled the nosecone off and both chutes were out, I could be wrong.

Granted it did land relatively close and undamaged but I am fine with the fail, I screwed up having the charges reversed. It was still a beautiful flight and now I get to fly it again next month :)
 
close, the rocket needs to stay inside the waiver for the entire flight. which is generally a radius of 1/2 the waiver altitude or a minimum of 1500'.
Rex
 

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