BRB900 GPS Telemetry System

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dhkaiser

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Did a search on this topic and everything I see is from 2011. So up date me please. I understand for about $380 I get the onboard GPS/transmitter and the LCD receiver. I would be using this on 2" Estes rockets with motors up to G80.

I would like feedback from current users on durability, and range, data received and displayed. Or anything else I may need to know. Thanks in advance.

Dan
 
I like mine. It isn't super accurate, but I always find my rocket. Except the one time I didn't, and had to buy a new transmitter. But you don't need to get a ham license, you don't need a cell phone, and you don't have to solder it together. There is an online community (Yahoo Groups, I think). And you can download data to Google Earth and see a pretty picture of where your rocket went. A pretty good deal.

Keep in mind that the receiver is not a navigator, and simply reports coordinates. You'll still need a hiking or pedestrian GPS navigator to walk you to the rocket. I use one of these. Pretty stinkin' cheap.
 
I have the older one, the newer 900's have better GPS chipset.
I LOVE mine, and the LCD handheld unit that comes with it. Only failed me once, and that was my fault. Other than that, it has led me to my rocket many many times.
We fly in high desert, with lots of 3ft tall sage scrub brush. The tranmitter doesnt do well when it falls behind these. What I do is write down the last reported co-ords, then turn the LCD off and walk to those co-ords, when I get close, turn the unit back on and wait until it gives me another set of co-ords, then.... bam, you found your rocket.
Worked on Mach+ flights to over 15K and recovery well over a mile away from launch site.
WORTH EVERY PENNY
 
Thanks Bat and Salvage! Anyone else willing to comntribute please do.
 
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I had one until it was destroyed in a CATO. Loved it, battery would last all day and always took me to my rocket although I didn't need it most of the time. Wouldn't launch a rocket without any sort of tracker these days! I use the Motion-X app which works with any smart phone & that will take you right to your rocket.
One comment about most GPS devices is that you usually lose GPS lock shortly after launch and they typically re-acquire lock before apogee.
 
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I have one of the very first units from 2010. It worked well on several flights, including all my personal altitude records. The best recovery was 2.25 miles away, across Midwestern farmland. Mine is the basic transmitter without memory, so I don't have any cool kml plots recorded. I like how the battery and switch are integrated in the unit, with no extra stuff to buy. Battery life is good.

That said, the unit is starting to flake out on me. It often takes forever to acquire satellites when I turn it on at the field. There is intermittent transmission. I did 2 flights a few weeks ago, and the reported lat/lon position never left the pad. When I test it back at home, all seems well. Strange. The old GPS chipset is not as robust as the current offering, so it might just be time to retire this unit and get a new one.

If you want a "tracker" to record the flight path, then the BRB900 is the way to go. If you just need a "finder", then the other popular 900 MHz kit (assembly required) is much more tempting at $125 for transmitter + LCD versus $380.
 
Even though I really did not need one, I purchased one last year just play around with. I occasionally use it just for fun and to gain experience before I dive deeper into HPR.

Last week, on an overcast day, I flew my Wildchild on a G64 and everyone lost sight of it. The wind on the ground was out of the north. We scanned the horizon to the south for a couple minutes, until the numbers on the display quit changing. I plugged the coordinates into a GPS app on my phone and it showed that it had actually drifted due west about 2300 feet. None of us would have ever thought to look for it in that direction. There's no telling how much time I would have spent walking the fields before giving up on it.
 
I am not familiar with the kml plots, does someone have an example? How are they plotted?
 
I am not familiar with the kml plots, does someone have an example? How are they plotted?

When you download your data post flight, it creates a file with the .kml extension and you open it with Google Earth.

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Just to repeat what has been said in this thread: Older BRB900s used a Trimble Lassen IQ which was much less sensitive than the u-blox 7 that is currently used. The transmitter power is now 250mw (used to be 100mw), and in theory, should be good for 6-10 miles or more. I tell people if they want to fly above 50K, they should use the 100mw 70cm transmitter which has been proven to work above 100K

The .kml file is just a text file. The lat / lon / alt / timestamp and # of satellites is in the data file. There are real data files here if you want to look at them.

https://bigredbee.com/kml_gallery.htm
 
OK, I am putting my own previous suggestion to the test.

BRB900 LCD system complete: $378 + shipping

Eggfinder LCD system, including popular performance upgrades:

  • Eggfinder + LCD starter kit: $120 + shipping
  • (2) antenna + RP-SMA upgrade: $24
  • Data cable: $5
  • Assembly and shipping by Connor (I sure as hell can't do it!): ~$46
  • LiPo's, charger, JST connectors, shipping from somewhere else (I don't have any of this stuff): $~75

Total Eggfinder LCD system: ~$270, which does not yet include my labor and misc. parts needed to build the LCD case. Nor does it include the added effort for me to understand and buy the correct LiPo's and accessories (new to me).

So, the price difference starts to diminish if you are starting from scratch.
 
I am not familiar with the kml plots, does someone have an example? How are they plotted?

I read mine in google earth. you can look at individual flights, or if you save the files, overlay them on each other. You can zoom, spin, etc to look from different angles.

This is four flights of my screech to around 8700'

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I download the file and clear the flash between every flight, just to keep things simple.

I've mounted mine several ways, not a good idea to put it next to a Adept22 like this. My favorite way to mount it is in a nosebay, and lately with MAC's new bays, I just put foam in, toss in the BRB900 on no mount or board, and put some more foam in, then seal it up. easy.
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Gotcha!
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After getting my feet wet in an EggFinder GPS, I'm heading over to a BRB as soon as funds allow. I've compared them side by side in the field, and the features and simplicity of the BRB are much more in line with what I want to do with my rockets.
 
I like mine. It isn't super accurate, but I always find my rocket. Except the one time I didn't, and had to buy a new transmitter. But you don't need to get a ham license, you don't need a cell phone, and you don't have to solder it together. There is an online community (Yahoo Groups, I think). And you can download data to Google Earth and see a pretty picture of where your rocket went. A pretty good deal.

Keep in mind that the receiver is not a navigator, and simply reports coordinates. You'll still need a hiking or pedestrian GPS navigator to walk you to the rocket. I use one of these. Pretty stinkin' cheap.

The Etrex Legend will get the job done. No matter what device one uses, sit down, read the manual and especially be fastidious as to how to input the given lat/longitude. You'll have to pay attention whether or not it's Degrees.Decimal Degrees,
Degrees.Minutes.Decimal Minutes, Degrees.Minutes. Seconds. Some mapping GPS mapping units one can chose which units they want to use. Try to set it to the units that your tracker receiver reports so the lat/long can be input directly. If one gets the units incorrectly input, might as well count the rocket as lost. It's best to practice, practice, practice and practice at home and again the night before the planned launch.
I witnessed this happening to a fellow in the past, took him awhile to figure it out to find his rocket. In the meantime he lost a lot of time he could have been flying rockets. There was a very happy ending to this story though. I am addicted to
direct to map tracking and noticed the flier/Ham was using an APRS Kenwood D72A handi-talkie, Beeline 400Mhz (Ham band) GPS tracker and a Garmin 60CsX handheld mapping GPS device. I showed him the Garmin has a serial port and whipped out my 60Cs and demonstrated the cable to connect the Kenwood to the Garmin and not have to mess with inputting data. Just push a button and tell the Garmin to navigate to the last known rocket position.
Live tracking on a map is a bit more helpful because one has an idea of drift versus simply proceeding to the last known position. If it's a nominal flight, one will likely get within the ground footprint of the tracker and get a final location of where the rocket is lying.
One advantage I had was finding a ballistic flight with like 2 to 3 position packets only: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...-Mapping-Program-Update&p=1573624#post1573624
The software is a ham tracking program called APRSISCE/32 https://aprsisce.wikidot.com/ The potential is there to run two instances of the program and get the live rocket position data on a photomap that's cacheable in real time during the flight.
Only problem with this stuff is usually one has to have a Ham callsign to get the program to open though there is no checking. One technically could use a fictitious callsign and as long as they're using it with their no "license required equipment"
wouldn't be a problem.

The 900Mhz Beeline is perfect for one who doesn't want to build a device and have a turnkey GPS tracking solution. I did check with Greg and the position data is handled differently than a typical NMEA stream (National, Marine, Electronics, Association) that comes out of a GPS receiver. Wouldn't be able to use the Beeline as a direct NMEA source with the above software or the Android program GPS Rocket Locator. GPS Rocket Locator unfortunately
needs a live internet connection for the map to be displayed.

I've had nine completely sight unseen flights that would have been lost if not for an APRS or NMEA GPS tracker. The longer one's rocket stays out of sight, the greater the chance they'll miss the deployment events and might not get a visual fix
at all. I never saw a Wildman Jr. after various J flights from 4500 to 6700 feet with one of the missing flights landing 3/4ths of a mile away. Didn't see it under the 36 inch main but yet I walked right up to the rocket and the main was out and not a scratch on the paint. If you fly a small rocket high, you'll lose it if there is no tracker onboard sooner rather than later.

One more advantage to GPS over RDF tracking is if a ballistic flight occurs, all it takes is a few position packets and one has a better chance of finding the remains. Really not enough time to acquire/fix an RDF bearing and lock it in to get to the crash site. In my case that's all it took to find the Formula 54 which actually was intact in the ground. If I had the right digging tool, I could have saved the nosecone. I have a new Wildman nosecone I like even better than the one RW provided and have just one more thrust block to epoxy to the sled and I'll be ready to fly again.

One last tip: Don't use a 900Mhz Yagi to track a rocket that's in flight. The beamwidth of the Yagi on that frequency is pretty narrow and one could have trouble keeping a lock on the datastream. Hard to point an antenna with a very narrow beamwidth at something you can't see. Use the "stick" antenna that comes with the receiver or if
one is really anal retentive, get a patch antenna (shown below) to increase the receive gain. Now a Yagi can still be helpful and a 900Mhz one is not that hard to carry. The time to use the Yagi is when the rocket is down and one is proceeding to the recovery site.
At that time, the rocket usually is not moving (unless it's being blown by the wind across the ground) and here's where the Yagi can be helpful to improve the "ground" footprint of your 900Mhz tracker. Attach it as you go to the last known position. I've proved this to myself.
I used a Yagi with a downed rocket and as soon as I reacquired a signal, I replaced the stock antenna to the receiver and the signal disappeared. Put the Yagi back and I got decipherable packets. If one is stuck using a 900Mhz tracker with a very extreme flight, a patch
antenna for base monitoring to maximize the prospect of receiving a last position when the rocket is about to touch down. That's what you want, that last position just before touchdown so you'll be within the ground footprint of the tracker so you can get a final position of the resting place. If your last received position is with the rocket up high in the air and drifting (with it being very far downrange) the last position might be quite a distance away from the final resting place. If that is out of range of the ground footprint of the tracker what to do? Well, whip out your Yagi. Forgot that? Here's where real time tracking on a map can help you, you simply continue walking in the direction you see the rocket was drifting and as long as the tracker is functioning, you'll likely walk into the ground footprint.
That is hard to do if one only has the ability to manually input a lat/long into a handheld mapping GPS. The good news is for sport fliers the flights are going to be straight forward and inputting the lat/long into a navigation device is likely going to work 98% of the time
for recovery. If you get to the last known position and see no rocket but a new position is coming in, just input the new coordinates and you're done. Go to it, pick it up and you'll never want to be without a GPS tracker again for the outta sight flights.Kurt

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I've mounted mine several ways, not a good idea to put it next to a Adept22 like this. My favorite way to mount it is in a nosebay, and lately with MAC's new bays, I just put foam in, toss in the BRB900 on no mount or board, and put some more foam in, then seal it up. easy.
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Gotcha!
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[/QUOTE]

Does the BRB900 Transmitter come assembled? I see nothing on their site that states that.

How is their USB interface used?

Thanks in advance
Dave A
 
Dave - the BRB900 TX comes fully assembled. It also comes with a USB interface used for both charging and communication. The RX just needs a USB cable.
 
You can use a terminal program with it if you like.... You could get creative with the right skills.

Normally, You turn it on, plug the little interface board in, and access it with the xb3 program. not terribly hard.

Both the unit's I've gotten came fully assembled, with a Lipo wrapped to the back of the board. A small interface board acts as a charger and USB interface. Not at the same time.
 
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You'll got me messing around with google earth, thought I'd share. Also figured out how to fix "messy" files. Sometimes you'll get a wacky line running way off into space... open the file in a text editor and just delete anything that looks out of place.

K1100T in blue, K805G in green Widman 3" Darkstar
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K1127LB, J510W, K1127LB, J1026LC Madcow Screech
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MAC Villain Loki J820LW, J500 Plain Jane, Loki J820LW
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everything I've logged :)
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It appears that you fly the BRB900 with the antenna folded back over the circut board. Correct? No issues there?

I've mounted mine several ways, not a good idea to put it next to a Adept22 like this. My favorite way to mount it is in a nosebay, and lately with MAC's new bays, I just put foam in, toss in the BRB900 on no mount or board, and put some more foam in, then seal it up. easy.
13160044595_85114d80b9.jpg
21453581268_dd29221264.jpg


Gotcha!
19362278541_a88f944e94.jpg

Does the BRB900 Transmitter come assembled? I see nothing on their site that states that.

How is their USB interface used?

Thanks in advance
Dave A[/QUOTE]
 
It does all come assembled. Thats the typical way electronics come, so they likely don't see a need to address it. Much like Ford doesn't advertise " NEW MUSTANG!!!! COMES FULLY ASSEMBLED!"

Mine has always hung out that way. lately I've tried getting it north of the board.

I typically have not seen info over 2K feet. This is likely due to the antenna I believe.
 
Much like Ford doesn't advertise " NEW MUSTANG!!!! COMES FULLY ASSEMBLED!"

Heh. I always liked a car "commercial" (if I recall it was inside a Goofy cartoon I saw on the Disney Channel as a kid) that stated something along the lines of "And it comes with original factory air...in the tires". Made me think of that.
 
It does all come assembled. Thats the typical way electronics come, so they likely don't see a need to address it. Much like Ford doesn't advertise " NEW MUSTANG!!!! COMES FULLY ASSEMBLED!"

Mine has always hung out that way. lately I've tried getting it north of the board.

I typically have not seen info over 2K feet. This is likely due to the antenna I believe.

With Daves installation.

The range might be attenuated by that installation in the photo. One wants to avoid metal paralleling the antenna. Nosecone mounting is ideal. Looks like there are the pads on the Xbee to solder an SMA connector and one could run a line to
a bulkhead antenna mount and have it facing aft with an SMA antenna on the bulkhead. Something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/UHF-1-4-Wa...410897?hash=item25ad11bd51:g:v0oAAOxy1NxSEnfC
or this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antenna-SM...677263?hash=item464d3ee14f:g:oscAAOSw0QFXBnsM
Having to deal with an eyebolt might be better than all that all-thread. Could substitute a plastic charge holder.

Again, if one is going for the absolute best range that can be achieved, want to try to have the antenna in "free air" with no metal paralleling it. Inside of a radiolucent nosecone and even a NC with a metal tip is acceptable.
If a compromised situation works for you fine. Could be that there might be an advantage like a "pseudo" Yagi. Problem there would be a high gain signal in one direction and a lower gain signal in another. If the rocket is spinning, you might see that as intermittent data decoding and if the interval is short enough, might be tolerable. I'd be very very cautious if transplanting that sled into something with aggressive motors that are going a long ways up there or far. Could lead to a big surprise premature signal loss. Just beware and don't get bit. Kurt Savegnago
 
Here's one of mine. It was my Radial Flyer on a CTI J280. You can see where I walked from my car to the RSO table, then to the LCO table, then to the pad, followed by the launch and descent, and a bit of my walking it back. The weird straight line in the middle is some kind of glitch. It goes off to infinity. There's a way to remove it, but I didn't bother.

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I had a couple of the Landru Nose cone-sled combos that work great for these GPS Units, but I do not see them on his site anymore, does anyone else carry them?
 
Regarding Kurt's suggestion of the SMA pads on the xbee module. That's true, but according to some email exchanges I've had with digi.com, boards with the SMA connector installed have some different components than the ones with the wire whip antenna. Not sure exactly what the differences are, but they are different part numbers. The other problem is finding an edge mounted SMA connector that matches the board thickness -- I"ve never been able to find one.

Greg
 
Here's one of mine. It was my Radial Flyer on a CTI J280. You can see where I walked from my car to the RSO table, then to the LCO table, then to the pad, followed by the launch and descent, and a bit of my walking it back. The weird straight line in the middle is some kind of glitch. It goes off to infinity. There's a way to remove it, but I didn't bother.

It's a glitch or a mal-formed packet. I've seen things on APRS tracking programs give some randomness errors to infinity so it's not just particular to your BRB system at all. If you have the ability with an editor to go through the .kml file, you could
edit it and get rid of the offending point. It should be easy to find as the datapoint will have screwy values. Save your original .kml, edit it and plot the new one and see if you got it right.

As far as SMA connectors go. Weird they don't have an SMA socket to fit the Xbee. I would have thought someone would have come up with one for the aftermarket resellers. If it was "absolutely" necessary, I would think one could clip off two of the
legs on the socket and just solder the two ground legs (instead of the four) and the antenna pad. YMMV. Kurt
 
These Google Earth plots are cool, however I would also like to see a Excel file so that I can judge events vs altitude. Is that possible?
 
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