S200 ANGARA/SA-5 GAMMON Build, Finally!!!

TopRamen said:

Thanks!!!

I love it when a solution can be improvised cheaply!
In the Army my nickname was Macguyver because I could always rig something with anything.

I'll go research that.

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Oh, yeah. There's always one more way to do things. Of course, it might not actually work, but you won't know until you try! When working on research projects at OU, a lot of times I had to do serious improvising because there just wasn't any budget. Beg, borrow, steal (did I say that out loud?).

sooner.boomer said:

Oh, yeah. There's always one more way to do things. Of course, it might not actually work, but you won't know until you try! When working on research projects at OU, a lot of times I had to do serious improvising because there just wasn't any budget. Beg, borrow, steal (did I say that out loud?).

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If you don't look at life like that, then you are a follower and not a leader! You Sir, are a Leader!
Well said!

The job has to be accomplished at all costs.:wink:
One way or another, the stuff is getting done!
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great, Duty First!"

You have to really love things to make them reality.

Thanks, Top. Fortunately, the statute of limitations has kicked in for most of that stuff :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Today I might get some time in on the Detail on the Booster where there is a set of bolts that hold it's cone on.
I want to make it from a centering ring, then make a mold of it.

TopRamen said:

Thanks!!!

I love it when a solution can be improvised cheaply!
In the Army my nickname was Macguyver because I could always rig something with anything.

I'll go research that.

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You sir have the makings of a crewchief!

Screaminhelo said:

You sir have the makings of a crewchief!

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Thank You!

I just got some more modelling materials today, and my caliper, so I can start doing some work later on.

I have also found alternatives to the antenna pieces, that are much lighter.

I used the template with the general shape I need to make this little mold box, then filled it with paper clay, and set it inside a piece of aluminum duct that I point my electric heater at to heat my livingroom. It dries in a couple days normally if left out in the open, but this should speed up the process a little.
I made the inside of the box a little large, so that when I break the part free, I can sand it to the proper dimensions afterward.
If the clay acts like glue, and really sticks to the insides, I'll just sand the box away carefully, as it is just balsa, basswood and some cardboard.

Whatever occurs, good or bad, will be beneficial, as I have to start learning somewhere!

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I tried making some struts freehand and it proved much more rewarding than my attempt at stuffing the clay into a silly box.
These two are just for practice ofcourse, and they are not fully cured, but they liked the sanding. I'm working on some other ideas too.

This clay is remarkably light when dry, and I could imagine using it as an actual part if it was reinforced from the inside and then perhaps glassed.
I will see what happens when it is fully cured and you put CA or finishing epoxy on it.

It may be a moot point as these will likely have to be individually fit regardless of how you make them, but cast parts would be more uniform and introduce less variation in the build.

That's why I'm still going to use the bridged design that I mentioned earlier, but I just wanted to see what I could do with the paperclay.
I'll have to decide on a framing technique that maintains the positions of the hard points, but allows to to form the glass around them or some such.
We can't have ANY variation whatsoever on the actual model. Not after all the damned time I'm sinking into this thing. It will have to be near perfect as I can make it, or I'll feel like I've wasted my time. :wink:

Might take me a year or more to complete this project.

Things as they are, I'm at a standstill because today the front drivers side wheel bearing in my truck finally had had enough, and I will likely have to save up for a couple months to get that fixed, and maybe even sell a gun or two, so my budget for this project just went to zero for a little while.
I just had to get new rotors, pads and a caliper on the rear because my backing plates rusted out, so my Truck obviously needs lots of work.
The roads around here don't get maintained, so life is hard on a truck.



The good news is I have ample supplies on hand to do most of the designing/tinkering stuff. I'll just have to be more creative with ways to use fiberglass cloth.

Wheel bearings can be a pain! Older ones are cheaper but are much easier to do with a press. Many of the newer sealed hub designs are easy to DIY but the parts are expensive. Either way, if one is bad, the other ain't far behind.

One thought for the struts. If you can reliably repeat the critical dimensions, then building them individually won't adversely affect the build down the road. Have you considered making a jig to cut something like styrene stock to length and secure your anchor point? Once the strut is assembled, a little "creative gzmology" and careful shaping would make it look right even if it is not faithfully built to scale.

Screaminhelo said:

Wheel bearings can be a pain! Older ones are cheaper but are much easier to do with a press. Many of the newer sealed hub designs are easy to DIY but the parts are expensive. Either way, if one is bad, the other ain't far behind.

One thought for the struts. If you can reliably repeat the critical dimensions, then building them individually won't adversely affect the build down the road. Have you considered making a jig to cut something like styrene stock to length and secure your anchor point? Once the strut is assembled, a little "creative gzmology" and careful shaping would make it look right even if it is not faithfully built to scale.

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Thanks for the idea. At this point I'm open to all options, but the final product has to look at least like the front line models, which actually did not have the nicely rounded and polished smooth struts that the museum display cutaway versions do.

This one shows it's weld lines with pride!

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I forgot to mention, I just recently ordered the "Scale Space Modeling" book, and that may have some new techniques listed in it that I have not considered. I'm anxiously awaiting it's arrival along with some other rocket and missile books.

Great news to report budget wise.
I was able to get the Hub Assemblies, Detroit Axle Brand, off of Amazon for $94.20 for the pair, and I watched a Youtube video showing the process and I have everything I need to do it. Yes, a garage with a lift would be nice, but as long as the weather is nice when they get here I can do it myself with my jack and jack stands.
I was assuming that the bearing would be like the geared hubs on the humvees in the Army, and that I'de need a seal puller set or some kind of special tools to do it, but everything is just bolted together, and the ABS sensor doesn't complicate things, as it is already sealed inside the assembly.
Anyhow, that is a big weight off my shoulders, as my service station quoted me a price that included labor and such, so I just got intimidated before even checking my Haynes book or seeing if I could do it myself.
Should be here between the 12th and 15th, and to avoid any complications, I called Detroit Axle and confirmed that I got the right part.

This means I can order my BT-60 coupler stock to make the boosters!

TopRamen said:

Great news to report budget wise.
I was able to get the Hub Assemblies, Detroit Axle Brand, off of Amazon for $94.20 for the pair, and I watched a Youtube video showing the process and I have everything I need to do it. Yes, a garage with a lift would be nice, but as long as the weather is nice when they get here I can do it myself with my jack and jack stands.
I was assuming that the bearing would be like the geared hubs on the humvees in the Army, and that I'de need a seal puller set or some kind of special tools to do it, but everything is just bolted together, and the ABS sensor doesn't complicate things, as it is already sealed inside the assembly.
Anyhow, that is a big weight off my shoulders, as my service station quoted me a price that included labor and such, so I just got intimidated before even checking my Hanes book or seeing if I could do it myself.
Should be here between the 12th and 15th, and to avoid any complications, I called Detroit Axle and confirmed that I got the right part.

This means I can order my BT-60 coupler stock to make the boosters!

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Sealed hub assemblies are nice for ease of replacement.

rharshberger said:

Sealed hub assemblies are nice for ease of replacement.

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Yup! Research always equals savings.

I'm glad that this thread attracts the attention of Engineering types, because I'm learning so many incredible things by taking on this project!

My very thinking is being re-aligned!

Fin geometry can be a doable thing from now on.

Anyhow, tonight I'm once again going to try to make these struts from transitions. If I could just figure out the formula to make the right shape.
I'll start with the cheap paper so I don't wastes my resources. I just need to get the shapes right, then I make cardstock versions.

I have settled on this transition for the basis for the part. It looks like it is probably my best option.
You can't see in the pics, but I actually overlapped the paper by a little bit. This made the part incredibly rigid when the super thin went into it, so it won't need much reinforcement on the actual model. Now I guess I have to make a whole bunch of them and then go through them to find the ones that are the most uniform.

This is looking good! I caught up on what I missed and....wow...gives me some inspiration to do the same! Keep it up. I think this is sweet.

Thanks Rob.
I got delayed a bit on it because of my Truck, but I still think about it obsessively.

I could not sleep last night, so I futzed about making a couple nose cones and thinking of how to make this part in a more repeateble manner, and came up with a solution that I'm about to try here in a little bit.

Instead of fitting the made transition to the tube, I will cut the tube, and insert the transition from the inner wall, then cut away the excess on the inside prior to the CA soak. This will allow me to make the dimensions exact from unit to unit. I'll match everything up to the full size schematic views, then I can make these parts, and as far as how they will attach, we will figure that out next, as I'm still conducting materials research and collection for testing. I found some Eyeglasses frames that have the hinge that looks pretty close to the attachment point.
Yesterday, a considerable amount of time was spent trying to find "Eyeglasses Making Kits" and "Eyeglasses Parts" for sale, but to no avail.
Apparently making wire eyeglass frames is what it is, and do to the overall costs of doing it right, it is not a "Hobby" of anyone, and those that make custom glasses form/fabricate the entirety of the product, so you can't seem to find the hinges for the earpiece. Cheap sunglasses likely have the ones I want, but I'll need four identical pair, and they will only be used for the tiny metal hinge and screw, so I'de like to maybe find them at a dollar store or flea market, rather than order something that might not have the proper dimensions.

something along these lines, perhaps? i searched on minature clevis
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__78824__Heavy_Duty_Nylon_Clevises_23_12_5_10mm_5pc_.html

rocketguy101 said:

something along these lines, perhaps? i searched on minature clevis
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__78824__Heavy_Duty_Nylon_Clevises_23_12_5_10mm_5pc_.html

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Those would be great if they were smaller, but thanks for the suggestion, as I had not thought to dig around the hobby store sites for this yet, and maybe they have something similar on there.

Found these! For that price they are worth a look.
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__43262__Heli_Ball_Joints_Long_without_balls_10pcs.html

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8596__Clevis_With_Arms_M4_2_5x30mm_5pcs_set_.html

rocketguy101 said:

something along these lines, perhaps? i searched on minature clevis
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__78824__Heavy_Duty_Nylon_Clevises_23_12_5_10mm_5pc_.html

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THANK YOU!!!

Looks like you've solved it for me!!! All the types of pieces I want are there, but listed as "Backorder", but that's ok, I'll just get them somewhere else.
I can make the parts the way I envision them now!!!
Some stuff even in Carbon Fiber!

TopRamen said:

THANK YOU!!!

Looks like you've solved it for me!!! All the types of pieces I want are there, but listed as "Backorder", but that's ok, I'll just get them somewhere else.
I can make the parts the way I envision them now!!!
Some stuff even in Carbon Fiber!

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i started looking on Micro Mark as they have a lot of miniaturized hardware for railroaders, but it was mostly cabinetry and gate hinges, then I remembered you are modeling a clevis connection, not a hinge and bazinga! found those---wasn't sure of exact size you needed, I just grabbed the first link. I am really admiring your work and "Macguyvering" to get this thing built...will be fun to see flight photos...

I received my order from Balsa Machining Service today, and as usual everything was top notch.
I was particularly happy to finally get my hands and eyes on the BT-60 coupler stock that will be the basis of my boosters!:clap:
They are gorgeous!

I promise not to hurt them while making then airworthy!




Looks like I've got some work to do, but I got to get my work area thoroughly cleaned up and reorganized, and the parts for my Truck are here, but it's raining, so I will likely get to making what will be the second prototype booster in a few days.

do you have a layout picture of all your components thus far?

Rob702Martinez said:

do you have a layout picture of all your components thus far?

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Nope, not yet, and right now my workbench is a total mess in dire need of reorganizing and cleanup, so don't expect one soon.
That said, I will eventually be making a portfolio of this build as a small pamphlet, and likely giving it away here,(The Pamphlet, not the Rocket) and a picture of the exploded components with a detailed description will be part of that.
Exploded as in "Exploded View", not the CATO Exploded.:wink:

Finally some more progress today. I got the wings stack sanded, then decided they were way too thick, so I remade them using my thinnest balsa stock, as they will be glassed anyhow.
I was thinking about how nice the thin 3/32" was to cut, when I realized I had not aligned the leading edge with the grain!!!

I went and took the Dog for a walk to ponder what to do, and arrived at the notion that I could flip the fins, then graft in the slight amount to additional balsa to make them right.

I always cut fins and wings slightly oversize anyhow, to allow for sanding and mistakes.

I got home and was pleased to see that this method worked as well as I hoped it would, and now have proper wings to start glassing.

The four wings I had made from the 1/8" stuff were 32g. for the bunch, and the four I made from the 3/32" are only 9g.

I used the four thicker ones as a guide to stack sand the thinner ones, as the paper thin balsa is extremely fragile. I simply sandwiched the 4 thin ones in the middle of the stack of thick ones, and then was able to safely tune them in to the same dimensions as my original set.