Need info about 9v batteries.

wighty44 said:

Perhaps it's overkill but I've had success using Duracell Procell 9V batteries - $11.99 for a 12 pack at Zoro Tools.

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Not all Duracell 9V batteries have the (6) rolled and welded cell construction. The evidence is in the datasheet. Take a 9V Duracell Procell battery apart and let us know what's inside. I pretty sure you will find 6 flat stacked pancake cells without any wired connection between cells. The Procell has the generic IEC 6LF22 type (6) pancake cell battery construction. This is the technical datasheet for Duracell Procell 9V 6LF22 https://ww2.duracell.com/media/en-US/pdf/gtcl/Product_Data_Sheet/NA_DATASHEETS/PC1604US1214.pdf

This is the technical datasheet for the QU1604 Duracell Quantum and Ultra 9V 6LR61 Battery https://ww2.duracell.com/media/en-US/pdf/gtcl/Product_Data_Sheet/NA_DATASHEETS/QU1604_US_UL.pdf and this is the technical datasheet for the MN1604 Duracell CopperTop 9V 6LR61 https://ww2.duracell.com/media/en-U...ta_Sheet/NA_DATASHEETS/MN1604_6LR61_US_CT.pdf Both of these batteries have the generic IEC 6LR61 rolled cell internal construction, but beware of the other MN1604 Duracell Coppertop 9V 6LF22 https://ww2.duracell.com/media/en-U...ta_Sheet/NA_DATASHEETS/MN1604_6LF22_US_CT.pdf which also has the generic IEC 6LF22 type (6) pancake cell battery construction.

You will find the IEC 6LR61 rolled cells types have a lower internal impedance which means they will source higher current than the 6LF22 pancake cell types, however the 6LF22 batteries have a higher capacity than the 6LR61 batteries because they have a higher fill factor of electrolyte.

What suits you best is determined by the application but IMO you want an IEC 6LR61 type battery with internally welded contacts for high G use.

Bob

I'm not sure where the information came from regarding the Procell type batteries, but they are NOT the pancake type construction. They are, in fact, the 6 cell, welded connector type - see photo

I had made this determination before I opted to use them in my E-Bays, but neglected to take a photo. So I felt it was worth the $1 to take apart another one so I could prove (show) the battery's internals.

FWIW, please note I posted the official Duracell technical datasheets that lists the internal battery construction.

The reason I say beware is that Duracell has been a division of Proctor & Gamble for some time, and Duracell is not as profitable as P&G would like so P&G is planning to sell Duracell. Duracell P&G makes batteries both in the US and China, and selling the Chinese batteries are more profitable for P&G because the labor costs are much less. The Chinese batteries are different than the US version using LF22 cells which are cheaper to make than LR61 rolled cells (which are slightly smaller than AAAA batteries). The only way you can be sure what cells are is inside the battery is to take it apart as you did, because from the outside, the only difference is the printing on the wrapper. If your Procells are labeled as made in the USA, they are IEC type 6LR61 batteries, but if they were not made in the US, they could be either type as the Procells for the UK market are the 6LF22 variants. I'll speculate to support the premium Duracell Coppertop price structure in the US, Duracell labels its excess US capacity as Procells which is a less expensive Duracell branding and it also keeps the US 6LR61 production line open.

For the most part batteries are a commodity item where one company's product is as good as the other. Legitimate Chinese batteries are every bit as good as the US counterparts. (Indeed almost all lithium batteries are made in China and there is no margin for error with Lithium batteries. They either work or they don't, but again another story for another day......) For most applications either 9V battery internal construction is fine, but if you need high current you want the lower impedance of the rolled cell construction. If you have a low current applicationin a mild environment, you want the LF22 construction because the electrolyte filling factor is higher so the AH rating of the battery is higher. If your application involves high G or vibration environments, a welded cell construction is recommended.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nine-volt_battery

https://www.buyabattery.co.uk/durac...-id1604-professional-alkaline-pp3-9-volt.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/08/01/lafley-p-g-to-cut-about-half-its-brands.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/01/p-g-bows-out-of-big-battery-business.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/10/p-g-to-shed-duracell.html

Bob

bobkrech said:

FWIW, please note I posted the official Duracell technical datasheets that lists the internal battery construction.

The reason I say beware is that Duracell has been a division of Proctor & Gamble for some time, and Duracell is not as profitable as P&G would like so P&G is planning to sell Duracell. Duracell P&G makes batteries both in the US and China, and selling the Chinese batteries are more profitable for P&G because the labor costs are much less. The Chinese batteries are different than the US version using LF22 cells which are cheaper to make than LR61 rolled cells (which are slightly smaller than AAAA batteries). The only way you can be sure what cells are is inside the battery is to take it apart as you did, because from the outside, the only difference is the printing on the wrapper. If your Procells are labeled as made in the USA, they are IEC type 6LR61 batteries, but if they were not made in the US, they could be either type as the Procells for the UK market are the 6LF22 variants. I'll speculate to support the premium Duracell Coppertop price structure in the US, Duracell labels its excess US capacity as Procells which is a less expensive Duracell branding and it also keeps the US 6LR61 production line open.

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Yes I knew the PDF files were official as I had my own copies. Yet you bring out a valid caution and information I was not aware of. My PROCELLs do say "Assembled in USA" but I now know to be wary of possible variations.

I have sent a question to Duracell asking about the inconsistency between what their data sheet shows and what was found inside the product. It will be interesting to see how (or if) they respond.

So would your recommendation be to use the Quantum variety?

Same here....

wighty44 said:

Yes I knew the PDF files were official as I had my own copies. Yet you bring out a valid caution and information I was not aware of. My PROCELLs do say "Assembled in USA" but I now know to be wary of possible variations.

I have sent a question to Duracell asking about the inconsistency between what their data sheet shows and what was found inside the product. It will be interesting to see how (or if) they respond.

So would your recommendation be to use the Quantum variety?

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The most important feature for rocketery common to both is the welded interconnections, but nothing else stands out....atleast certainly not from the datasheets. I see little difference between the Quantum and the CopperTop batteries. In fact under certain situations the CopperTop specs may be 1%-2% percent better which is not significant but I'm guessing the old CopperTop will be cheaper than the new Quantum....

Bob

I would not use a Duracell. I used my Western Family store brand batteries in all flights for the last few years including the "Speed of Money" that was a very lightweight rocket that flew on an I1299. I can't remember the predicted G forces but I was worried everything might obliterate when it hit 900mph in something like .25 seconds.
-Ken