A positive thread on what people believe Estes should produce

K'Tesh said:

I want a PSII 2.5" Cherokee D. Please call it a Cherokee D, and in addition to a D Power decal (which should also be an option) I'd like to see a 29mm Power decal (38mm Power would also be acceptable).

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Sounds familiar :wink:

I'm building two, one with D Power decals and the other with G Power.

Like the idea of more variety of motors in Bulk Packs, w/ igniters and wadding included. And larger quantity of wadding purchased seperitly. Packaging I know is a big expense. The package can easily hold twice the amount of wadding.
Also like bringing back some of old goodies like, Hurcules, Cherokee D, Comanche 3, 3 engine Ranger, Vega, Trident 3 tube, and some of the popular exotics.
I see this year Estes has brought some really good mini's to market. Perhaps the Mini Brute line, Maxi Brute line and regular size all of the same rocket.
Good for those of us that only on occasion get to a field big enough for high launches.
Heavy, slow off the pad staged in different sizes.
Really like the old decals of the Wizard much better. I have scratch built scaled Wizards from BT-5 to BT-80, mini engines to 29mm. Good Sport flyer.
If Estes were to open a line in larger diameter, perhaps Estes would Blue Tube.
But by far, PARTS, including decals. Perhaps Estes should look at obtaining Semroc.
Personally, I like the balsa cones and adapters better than plastics. I relished the day I got a new Estes Magazine in the 70's.
The whole thing was a wish list, just had narrow down what I wanted the most, first. I miss those few pages of parts. And scratch/design build my own rockets with all Estes parts. I'd use one of my old order forms if I thought you'd honor the prices :eyepop:

I'd love to see a 2" diameter Comanche-3. Not realistic, but it would be incredibly awesome.

These in E, F Gs Great motors, great igniters, Hurry this is my last one!!!!

Hi John,

A couple of musings...most people are talking about kits & parts. To me, cool stuff would be -
1) A nice single channel wireless launch controller under $100
2) A mostly-plastic Rose style fin jig that would handle up to ~BT-60
3) A 10mm MakerBeam rail option for the launch pads (OK that's maybe a stretch for Estes, the rail is a bit pricey)
4) Connectorized igniters - easy for kids to hook up

I would buy the following mentioned so far.

2.5" PSII Cherokee D (I am not so picky about the decals. All mentioned in the first Cherokee D post would be fine, but add a "G" related decals as an optional item on the decal sheet, like Secret Squirrel posted above. Makes sense to me to call it a Cherokee G when up scaled for F and G motors.)

I would also buy a clone of the Cineroc Camera and Omega booster with a modern decent HD keychain camera in it for nostalgia sakes.

If I could decide on one new kit to produce, I would like to see a new design along the concept of the Orbital Transport with modern styling to it. Not a clone or a redo of the OT, but something similar in concept and as exciting as the original was when it came out.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

I don't fly RC planes, but would an off-the-shelf RC rocket boost glider make sense?

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I like that idea as well, but to be perfectly honest, Estes did that with the Centurian ARF R/C RG about 10 years ago.
That model would be more fun now with the 29mm BP motor options.....

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Here's part of my post from the other thread about the 2015 catalog that prompted the creation of this thread:

How about some builder kits for the E16 and F15 motors? The PSII builder kits are too big, and the E2X kits don't inspire builders. I also like BT80 kits or heavy walled 2" airframe for 24mm motors. How about more in that space? Maybe more upscales of classic LPR for larger motors?

My thought about E2X and RTF is that if you are going to make rockets out of molded plastic, then go all in and do some interesting plastic models that would be really hard to build otherwise, not 3FNC out of molded plastic. How about RTF Sci-Fi ships or military jets? I like the Trajector --- interesting molded NC and fin pods that would be hard to build without molded plastic. Speaking of plastic, more nosecones, please!

I also don't see why there aren't more cool electronics. People are taping keychain cameras to their rockets! Why not an easy to use camera module for HD video? Why not a more sophisticated altimeter? Why not beepers? How about a "science payload" with all of these things built in?​

And here is JumpJet's response:

I agree with most everything you mentioned and you just might see some of it this year or the next.

John Boren​

Cool! I'd be every pleased to see any one of these things developed in the next year or two!

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+ about a million on all of that

PSII Clusters. (and despite the call not to ask for old kits....a PSII Optima cluster would rock )

Kirk G said:

I can see where shipping rocket kits but not motors to other countries could produce a serious disconnect... Unless you only meant to make trophy rockets for the shelf... How would you fly them?

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I have friends in Canada who can buy motors locally, but can't order those deals from Estes website.

Hi John,

First off, the Solar Flare I sent you staging pictures of is still flying great. It is one of my fleet favorites!

Now, to add some positive items to this thread.

First: What I really NEED from Estes is your motors. Everything else, I could get elsewhere if I needed to (parts, kits, etc.). Your production and distribution of motors is what nobody else can match (don't get me started on Quest BP... they're fine, but their variety and distribution can't match yours). So, I want you to do whatever it takes for you to be able to continue to produce and distribute via mass market your motors. If this means a whole lot of RTF/ARF/E2X etc (which I never buy), then more power to you. Overpriced flight packs at Target/Walmart? Bring 'em on! I want your business model to be healthy, and I understand and won't complain if this means most of your birds are not of interest to me.

OK, that said, I would like to see just a bit more diversity in motors. OR engines. Or whatever we're calling them. I'd like to specifically see a long-burn D, to replace the Quest D5 that was one of my absolute favorites. I still have a few stashed away. I would also like to see a long-burn 18 mm C. Something like a C3. Further, if you are interested in getting into APCP manufacture, I wish you would get and sell through Hobby Lobby motors comparable to the Aerotech SU D10/D21 line. I can get those from Aerotech so not critical, but it's something I use and I'd love to be able to pick them up through HL or AC Supply at good discounts.

Next: NOSE CONES. Yes, we've had the conversation before. Where my take is slightly different from other people is that (being in marketing) I understand your business model isn't going to fit selling cone-by-cone, but if you offered a bag of say 4 PNC-60AH or 4 PNC-60-RL, I'd be happy to buy in "bulk." I like the assortment packs you offer in smaller sizes, but please make sure I can predict what will be in each bag when I buy it, because probably I'll be buying 'em online and can't check each bag to pick the one with the cone I want. IF that's too much trouble, consider offering them in real bulk to retailers like UMRS or BMS or BRS hobby or the like, that are "hobby" enough to open the big bag of 20 or 50 cones and part them out cone-by-cone. Anyway, whatever model you pick, start with the ones that are harder to get balsa replacements for... there's more of a market for a large PNC-60 than something smaller we can get from BMS cheaply. Actually BMS probably doesn't want to stock plastic cones, as it would erode their balsa business...

Cool builders' kits. Keep them coming. I won't complain if it's only a couple innovative designs per year. But make it easy for the "one weekend fliers" to go from their RTF to a level 2 kit. Maybe offer more that's a combo box of an RTF / E2X / LEvel 1-2 so they can get their feet wet gradually, all from one box.

Hire someone to do targeted civic outreach. Our hobby's biggest problem is lack of convenient launch sites or laws against us. Do more to work with cities to promote the hobby.

That's about it. Thanks for listening.

Marc

OK, a few more things:

I like the old style rockets, particularly the older Scifi types. Starship Vega, Mars Snooper... so maybe bring back a few more classics each year. I know your track record shows light sales of these, so I applaud you allowing SEMROC to do Retro Repros. I hope SEMROC can get back on its feet under new ownership as mentioned earlier.

Clusters: How about a cluster model every year?

Oh, and count me on board that BT-20 and BT-50 are too flimsy. Not saying your product is lower than spec, just that I prefer heavy walled versions of these tubes for typical body tube use, so maybe do more with heavier versions of these (with matching cones...). I've bought the heavier stuff from SEMROC and BMS in the past and have developed a taste for it. The ST tubing series, as I understand it.

Marc

1. Cluster kits!! This is my heart's fondest wish...

2. Low current igniters for cluster kits

3. +1 on more PSII builder kits

4. +1 on a complete parts catalog, including replacements for all decals

5. More mid-skill level kits. I'm not sure what they'd look like. But it seems there are an overabundance of E2X and ARF kits (not being negative, just pointing it out) which are more or less the same. I'd buy more Estes kits if there were a wider variety of builder kits available.

6. Camera quadcopters! (Actually, I did see one listed in the 2015 catalog, but I don't see it on the Estes website, nor on Amazon, so I don't know where you buy it)

Now for the unlikely wish:

7. A metal version of the tube cutting guide. I love my set, but it's so easy to cut into them with a sharp hobby knife. I use it all the time, and it's got jagged edges on it!

Military Scale Kits.

+1 on motor diversity. I really like the idea of a long burn, like a C3. Also, a friskier 24 mm D booster motor, say in the D18-0 range would be great. Although, I don't even know if that is possible.

DizWolf said:

PSII Clusters. (and despite the call not to ask for old kits....a PSII Optima cluster would rock )

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Optima in 38mm, breaking new ground for Estes!!!

ThirstyBarbarian said:

I don't fly RC planes, but...

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If I did, they'd be rocket powered!

The_Lone_Beagle said:

This...imagining an upscaled Cherokee-D, I'm drooling already.

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I've already started on one... Thanks to a SNAFU with USPS/UPS. The nosecone is wrong (it should be a PSII scaled version of the PNC-55AC, but I had to settle for one of the 2.5" PSII nosecones (bought separately from Estes).

Here's a shot of it before I got primer on it (which is where it stands now).

SecretSquirrel said:

Sounds familiar :wink:

I'm building two, one with D Power decals and the other with G Power.

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I get the strong impression that those are just redshifted, and not upscaled.

RocketGeekInFL said:

Sheryl from Semroc announced today that Semroc has been sold to eRockets and that Randy from eRockets is planning on continuing Semroc's kits, and parts production.

I will agree on the Nose Cones though.

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This is good news I have a couple of drawers of SEMROC cones but to know I can get them again pleases me.

K'Tesh said:

I get the strong impression that those are just redshifted, and not upscaled.

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Not sure why you're implying that I lied but here's a photo of the second rocket with a yard stick. As you can see, if I want decals on it, they have to be upscaled.




And with a Cherokee D clone I'm also building.

A 1/100th scale space shuttle. Even if the Orbiter doesn't come off and glide down separately from the stack, I'd still love to have a model the same scale as my Estes Saturn V.

A nice vacuum-form kit of a design that isn't tubular...not super complicated, just different from a construction standpoint. Something golden - age SciFi, steam punk or dieselpunk.

1) I would like to see the Maxi-Brute 4" diameter V-2, so I could try to convert it into an A-9/A-10.

2) I would like to the 4" Atlas-Mercury, so I could try to convert into the rocket from Men Into Space.

3) Yes, even though it is impossible, I would like to see the B14 again.

4) It's not exactly Estes, but I would love to see the Cox Shuttle America, again, just so I could fly it stock.

The "Classic Series" is a 1 up! Keep it going.
Like when Centuri was obtained by Estes, Semroc has been obtained by ERockets.
It's the same hollow feeling in the pit of the stomach.
What's coming...
I am Vigulant that all will work it's way into play. No one is ever statisfied.
But it's the mass of Rocketeers that are listened to, and results are our benefit!
Maybe "you" are did not see what you wanted, but the mass will make it worth while in the long run for us all.
Hoping, the Retro-Repo line will expand greatlky...

Here are some thoughts on expanding PSII Builders kits. Consider making some of these more complex than 3/4FNC - right now, they look like large versions of skill level 1 kits. They don't have to be as complex as Conquest or Lynx, but should have more design interest than traditional fin configurations.

Below are some examples of old kits that were fairly simple, but achieved a creative look. Note, I name them only to point out design aspects. I am not suggesting upscales of old kits, rather, to use them as inspiration for a new breed of PSII builders kits.

Consider borrowing from old kits like NASA Pegasus, Vindicator, Firefox, SWAT and Hawkeye: these are "rocket plane" designs that could be "beefed up" to PSII size, but still employ simple components that would not be fragile.

For more of a "sci fi" look, borrow from Hyperion, Argosy, Star Rider, Starhawk, Nebulon Warrior, and Deep Space Transport. Again, these old kits all used simplistic shapes to achieve that "exotic" look.

Also consider a "short and stubby" PSII offering. There seems to be a mass appeal for such "chunky" rockets. Consider something like a larger version of Curvalinear, or something along the lines of Performance Rocketry's Gizmo or the LOC/Precision Minnie Magg. PSII but "Low N Slow"

SecretSquirrel said:

Not sure why you're implying that I lied but here's a photo of the second rocket with a yard stick. As you can see, if I want decals on it, they have to be upscaled.

And with a Cherokee D clone I'm also building.

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SS, I wasn't implying that you were lying... Sorry you thought that I had.

Redshifting means keeping the original size/shape, but building for a larger motor. I've found that the 38mm motor is really close to a BT-60, but G's can be 29mm which are a close fit to BT-55s. Dunno why it looked smaller to me in the original photo (probably because the nosecone looked really close to accurate, which is hard to find).

BTW, that was a very sweet looking job you did there.

Pointy Side Up!
Jim

K'Tesh said:

Redshifting means keeping the original size/shape, but building for a larger motor.

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Never heard of it. Let me try to interpret...you up - engined the design, which now goes so fast that it will appear to have turned red to ground observers due to the Doppler shift.
OK, kind of a strained association but I'll buy that.

mrichhcirm said:

Never heard of it. Let me try to interpret...you up - engined the design, which now goes so fast that it will appear to have turned red to ground observers due to the Doppler shift.
OK, kind of a strained association but I'll buy that.

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Here's the thread where I first heard the term...

Sitting here as a noob some of the things that spring to mind are 18mm 'D' (think 9-7), easy access to transitions, nose cones and other minor parts.

I applaud Estes for taking the time to understand their customers, especially here, where we are a small number and not the "Mass Consumers". I think they have been great in bringing out new kits, that are futuristic, and not just the old 3fnc's. That being said, trying not to get lost in the past, while I would still love to see classics back, such as Mini Brutes, Dragon Ship 7, Excalibur, Classic Sci-Fi types, However the comment was to look forward. So I would say my wish list would be towards newer Gliders, that are more than just the Stick glider, on the side of a rocket. Something similar to the Old Citation Bomarc, or as mentioned simple entry level RC Glider types. I miss the Skywinder, but am looking forward to the Flip Flyer, as I like Helicopter recovery as well, or just unique recovery types. Wireless Launch controller. Video payload bay, that could be use on Rockets of choice, would not hurt if it was styled after the old Cineroc.

Thanks Estes, and Mr. Boren for taking the time to listen to us, and keep us informed.