Michael's First Rocket Build Thread

rocket sok
SilicdyneTRF
The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
MichaelRapp

MichaelRapp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
279
Reaction score
38
Well, I decided to have my first build thread.

This actually isn't my first rocket. I built several E2X rockets six years ago and I built a Big Bertha, but I was so disappointed in my build quality that I dropped out of the hobby. So I'm getting back into it and trying to really learn the techniques.

What helped me get back into things is that I ran across ApogeeRocket's video build tutorial on their Avion rocket, a simple skill level one build. This is what I needed over half-a-decade ago: someone to walk me through my first build, showing me the fundamentals such "simple" things as glueing, sanding, and painting. Tim also goes beyond the instructions included with the kit and details some other enhancements such as using wood filler on the fins.

Well, even with the videos, I messed up the motor mount. :facepalm: I tied the kevlar shock cord to its nearest centering ring rather than the motor mount itself. No problem, I ordered some replacement parts knowing that I'd probably make a mistake or two at this.

Some things I've learned thus far:

-- A little wood glue goes a long way. I was playing with some scrap balsa and gluing some pieces perpendicular to one another and noticed that if I just put a little coating (but not too little) the wood set far more quickly than if there was a big glob of wood glue. It was also less messy to clean up.
-- Balsa is soft. :eek: When I went to sand the edges of the fins to remove the little bumps left by the laser die cut, I inadvertently rounded the edges of the corners somewhat. It does not take much pressure or many strokes to remove a great deal of balsa on 220 grit sandpaper.

While I wait for the replacement motor mount parts to arrive, in the next day or so I'll attempt to apply wood filler to the fins. One they're dry, I'll sand them as Tim does in the videos. Although, he seems to sand them fairly aggressively....I'll hold back a bit....perhaps I just got a piece of really soft balsa or wood filler is thicker than I am anticipating it to be.
 
You can use wood for low power up to lower high powered motors, but I encourage most to use epoxy at mid to high power.

Good luck with your build thread.
 
if you are using a water based filler(such as Elmer's), you should apply it to both sides of the fin at the same time or risk warping the fin. my usual coarse grit paper for Balsa starts at 220 grit :).
Rex
 
When you glue your fins on, apply a thin layer of glue to the root edge and let is set for a minute or two. Then apply more glue and attach the fin. You also may want to look into " papering" your fins in the future. Years ago I used to go with the sanding sealer route and the first rocket I built after getting back to the hobby I used thinned Elmer's wood filler to do the balsa nose cone but I papered the fins and have done it on every build since. Much easier to me than the sealer or wood filler route. The best advice I can give you on any build is take your time and enjoy it. It's not a race. What improved my models the most when I first started out was just learning patience. I had to kind of remind myself of that once I got back in the hobby.
 
Let's see some pics! I haven't built or flown a rocket in so long that I need to live vicariously through someone. :cry:
 
You need to sand aggressively with higher grit/finer sand paper. I start with 400 because I am hamhanded and need something that I can manhandle slightly without causing too much damage.
I know Apogee has an article about using watered down Elmers wood filler to smooth out a rocket, both fins and body, but I found out the hard way that a little water goes a LONG way. My first few rockets shrunk a bit and I lost a Swift because I went too thin (too much water), and warped a fin or two so use caution with the filler, if you thin it out.
Another tip I learned was to use Filler straight from the tub on body spirals then sand smooth.

I am not nearly the builder these others are though, so you are in the right place. I personally lurked for 2 years before joining...
 
MichaelRapp said:
Well, I decided to have my first build thread.

This actually isn't my first rocket. I built several E2X rockets six years ago and I built a Big Bertha, but I was so disappointed in my build quality that I dropped out of the hobby. So I'm getting back into it and trying to really learn the techniques.

What helped me get back into things is that I ran across ApogeeRocket's video build tutorial on their Avion rocket, a simple skill level one build. This is what I needed over half-a-decade ago:
<snip>
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that link...I'm going to check it out.

I'm getting back in again after several decades, and I'm trying to remember all my old building techniques...hard when you don't have as many brain cells as I once had!

When I was a kid, I didn't really care much about build quality or painting, but I did learn a couple of things. As you mentioned, wood glue is strong, and a little goes a long way! And balsa is soft! As I rediscovered yesterday, between my 2nd and 3rd coats of sanding sealer, when I snapped the bottom part of a fin off while sanding a tad bit too vigorously...oh well, thankfully, wood glue is strong (as I mentioned previously).

An old trick I remember for glueing fins was to apply the wood glue sparingly to the fin's root edge, hold it tightly against the tube for about 10 seconds, *remove* the fin, wait about 30-60 seconds (for the glue to get tacky), and then reapply and prop it upright and leave it alone while it fully dries. Obviously, you can only do one fin at a time.

As an older dog, I actually sprung for the Estes fin alignment guide--when I was a kid, it was always one of those things that I always wanted, but couldn't really afford. I just glued the fins on using that last night, and it sure made things simpler, and speeded things up (glueing 3 fins on all at once--wow!).

Other things I've noticed...now that I am older, my eyes suck! I definitely need both glasses and one of those illuminated magnifying doohickies...sheesh...

The other thing I've noticed, building my kit (a mini-engine kit, the Little Fat Boy) my fingers are fatter than they used to be...definitely harder to get glue in tighter places, I'm going to look into pipettes to squeeze smaller amounts of glue where I need it, as opposed to wiping globs with my fingers.

If I'm not too embarrassed/ashamed of the build, I'll try to post pictures...
 
psst toothpicks & bamboo skewers make nice applicators. one can also find paper nut/candy cups in party supplies that are nice for mixing epoxy in.
Rex
 
Harry Stine in the Handbook of Model Rocketry talks about his preference of the "double glue joint," mentioning it several times in the book. If I remember right, it is that you apply a thin layer of glue to both the fin and the rocket, let both dry, then apply a layer of glue to each (or only one, I can't remember) and then do the attachment.

Rex - thanks for the suggestion on the toothpicks. I noticed that when I was using my fingers to do the fillets around the centering rings, I had trouble getting the glue to really go where the ring met the motor mount. A toothpick or very small dowel would make that much easier.
 
with the double glue joint method one can glue all the fins in about 15 minutes(not counting the initial glue drying time). other note skewers come in various sizes(I have some 3' marshmellon skewers :) that have come in handy), also line pliers can clip points etc. off your 'small wood dowels'.
Rex
 
Rex R said:
with the double glue joint method one can glue all the fins in about 15 minutes(not counting the initial glue drying time). other note skewers come in various sizes(I have some 3' marshmellon skewers :) that have come in handy), also line pliers can clip points etc. off your 'small wood dowels'.
Rex
Click to expand...

Popsicle sticks are handy too.
 
The_Lone_Beagle said:
Thanks for posting that link...I'm going to check it out.

I'm getting back in again after several decades, and I'm trying to remember all my old building techniques...hard when you don't have as many brain cells as I once had!

When I was a kid, I didn't really care much about build quality or painting, but I did learn a couple of things. As you mentioned, wood glue is strong, and a little goes a long way! And balsa is soft! As I rediscovered yesterday, between my 2nd and 3rd coats of sanding sealer, when I snapped the bottom part of a fin off while sanding a tad bit too vigorously...oh well, thankfully, wood glue is strong (as I mentioned previously).

An old trick I remember for glueing fins was to apply the wood glue sparingly to the fin's root edge, hold it tightly against the tube for about 10 seconds, *remove* the fin, wait about 30-60 seconds (for the glue to get tacky), and then reapply and prop it upright and leave it alone while it fully dries. Obviously, you can only do one fin at a time.

As an older dog, I actually sprung for the Estes fin alignment guide--when I was a kid, it was always one of those things that I always wanted, but couldn't really afford. I just glued the fins on using that last night, and it sure made things simpler, and speeded things up (glueing 3 fins on all at once--wow!).

Other things I've noticed...now that I am older, my eyes suck! I definitely need both glasses and one of those illuminated magnifying doohickies...sheesh...

The other thing I've noticed, building my kit (a mini-engine kit, the Little Fat Boy) my fingers are fatter than they used to be...definitely harder to get glue in tighter places, I'm going to look into pipettes to squeeze smaller amounts of glue where I need it, as opposed to wiping globs with my fingers.

If I'm not too embarrassed/ashamed of the build, I'll try to post pictures...
Click to expand...

You need to build bigger rockets!

I have bad eyes and clumsy fingers too, and it's a LOT easier for me to build an Estes Leviathan than a mini rocket of any kind. It's got big parts that are easy to work with. Plywood doesn't break when you sand it. Pre-slotted tubes and through-the-wall fins make fin alignment much easier than surface mounted fins. It's a dirty little secret, but MPR kits are easier to build than LPR kits.

And big rockets are easier to see during flight and to find afterward!
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
Popsicle sticks are handy too.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I read that they were handy for using with epoxy, but after that incident, I agree and I'm going to use the popsicle sticks.

ThirstyBarbarian said:
You need to build bigger rockets!
Click to expand...

LOL, bigger rockets are already in the mail, on their way! I'm still trying to figure out how to sneak them in past my wife, and then act like they have been there all the time.
 
I didn't have any time to work on the rocket during the week, but that was okay as I needed the replacement parts from Apogee to arrive. I assembled the motor mount (attaching the shock cord correctly this time) and applied wood filler to the fins and the spirals in the body tube.

The wood filler didn't seem all that difficult and it doesn't take much water to thin it to the consistency of thick toothpaste. Brushing it on the fins was fairly straightforward. I remembered to do the edges, too. I may have done it a bit too thick, but we'll find out.

As I had a substantial amount of CWF leftover, I decided to try filling the spiral on the rocket's body tube. This afternoon I watched Chris Michelssen's NARCON 2014 Technical Session in which he describes a cool trick to use a X-Acto knife to fill in the spiral (32:35 in the video). Alas, my CWF seemed to be too thin for this trick as instead of getting it in the spiral, it just fell off the blade to the area next to the spiral. I decided to apply it with a syringe and roughly smooth it out with my finger.

[video=youtube;o7MqirvUWfA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MqirvUWfA[/video]

Here's a photo of the progress thus far. In the photo you can see the body tube with the CWF on it, the replacement motor mount next to the ruler, and the three fins coated with CWF drying. (The old motor mount is off to the side on the right.)

photo.jpg
 
Okay, yep, I put too much CWF on the spirals. Apparently, I thought I was frosting a cake. :D

Thankfully, the CWF sands down fairly quickly. I'm using 220 grit to get it decently low, then I will follow up with 400 when I start getting really close to the tube. I don't want to start scuffing up the tube itself.

This is probably the most sanding I've done in ten years!
 
MichaelRapp said:
Okay, yep, I put too much CWF on the spirals. Apparently, I thought I was frosting a cake. :D
Click to expand...

Interesting about the wood filler...the guide I am following says to have it in a milky consistency...I am finding that, as I paint, the balsa fins seem to still be absorbing a lot of paint (even after three coats of the wood filler stuff). I think I'll try it more toothpaste-y for consistency next time.

On the other hand, I used the same wood filler liquid to seal and sand the grooves in my body tube, and it seemed to have worked ok so far. My instructions said to use a toothpick to apply the wood filler to the grooves - I didn't have the patience, so I just went ahead and brushed it on. I'll definitely check out that video and the X-Acto knife trick.

I'll tell you what, after painting some outside doors last week, and painting the model rocket this week...this is the most sanding AND painting I've done in decades!
 
Another thing learned tonight....CWF dust goes everywhere. Wow. :facepalm:

I was impressed by how smooth it made the fins. I do have some small gouges in the fins, still. I am uncertain if these were in the original balsa or if some particles of something got underneath the fin as I was sanding the CWF down. I'm going to try a light coat of CWF tomorrow and resand. I'm not going to go too crazy on this as the fins will undoubtably get dings upon impact on the ground during descent.

photo 1.jpgphoto 2.jpg
 
MichaelRapp said:
I'm going to try a light coat of CWF tomorrow and resand. I'm not going to go too crazy on this <snip>
Click to expand...

I agree, don't go crazy...your fins look really good already. When I was sanding down my fins and didn't focus, I snapped the bottom part off and had to glue it back on...
 
Well, my single rocket under construction morphed into three rockets being concurrently under construction. :)

Here's where we are with the three rockets.

Apogee Avion - motor mount glued into airframe, fins filled with CWF and sanded. Next step is to glue on the fins.

Bug Me Not - motor mount glued into airframe, fins skinned and drying. Next step is to glue on the fins.

Baby Bertha - motor mount partially assembled, next step is to finish the motor mount and move on to skinning the fins.

I wanted to try my hand at standard white glue instead of wood glue on parts that slide (i.e. centering rings). Wood glue seems to set fast and I got pretty close to crumpling my motor mount on the Avion. So I took a 40% off coupon to Michael's and for $1.61 picked up a bottle of Elmer's Glue-All. At least for motor mount assembly, I prefer this glue. It's a little more forgiving and the smaller tip on the bottle made it easier to apply. Of course, I'll use wood glue for fin-to-tube assembly.

I also wanted to try skinning my fins. I found an excellent tutorial on the web on how to do this. Ken, who posts videos under his RocketFamily KML, is building an Estes Magician and is videoing it. One of the first things he does is skin the fins. It's about seven minutes into his first video:

[video=youtube;VAh2YVPB0iY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAh2YVPB0iY[/video]

(Incidentally, the rest of his build -- there's about 2.5 hours thus far of it -- is absolutely invaluable for me, especially getting to watch how he glues and uses epoxy. I learned a lot!)

If my skinning turns out okay, I probably may prefer this method. A little easier than all that sanding. And less dust. I'm eager to compare the look of both methods, even though I understand that the skinning method is primarily for strength and not smoothness.

One thing that I am so happy I caught before I messed up too much is to mark the root edge of the fins. In the example above, it is obvious by the shape of the fin which side is the root edge. However, for my Bug Me Not, the fins are isosceles triangles! I fully skinned one before realizing I had no idea what direction the grain was running because it was covered up by paper! Thankfully, a little bright light allowed me to see the grain and make a mark.

All in all, I had a very fun afternoon. Time seemed to just pass by....I wasn't even conscious of time as I was spending all the time concentrating on what I was doing. In the zone, as it were. Moreover, I am really happy that every time I do something I seem to be getting better at it, or at least not making the same silly mistakes.
 
I used to do the heavy weight and wait routine with my fins...I have found a quicker way that saves me(usually) a good bit of time. I do the steps leading up to the drying stage, but instead of the heavy weight I'll put them on a cooling rack(so that I get a good airflow to both sides). takes about 1.5 - 2 hrs to dry. if one or more fins warp a bit I get out the iron, set to linen(dry) and press them flat, about 20 seconds per side x2, let cool and glue them to the rocket. pictured below my fin tools. a piece of 5/8" delrin rod (to squeegee the skin), cooling rack, and if needed, the iron:). I have managed to do fins start to finish in about 3 hours(including drying time) not including filets, those take another 4 - 5 hours to dry.
Rex

fintools 001.jpg
 
Made some more progress on both of the builds. The Sunward Bug-Me-Not (in the foreground) may turn out to be the best of the two simply as I do things first to the Avion (the rocket nearer the window) and usually find a way to do it better on the Bug-Me-Not. In any case, I am really happy with how well I aligned the fins.

One thing that got me stuck in E2X land in 2008 (which caused me to lose interest in the hobby) is that for the two kits I did with glue-on fins they were an utter disaster. For whatever reason, back then I either didn't seek out or couldn't find videos of simple rocket construction.

The Avion is having some fillets drying and will be ready for priming tomorrow. The BMN still needs the fillets and the launch lug attached.

I love the little rocket cradles! Right from the plans in the Handbook of Model Rocketry. Although, I need to make one of a smaller width as you can see I had to stick a spare body tube in the BMN so it would reach the other side.

photo.jpg
 
MichaelRapp said:
I love the little rocket cradles! Right from the plans in the Handbook of Model Rocketry. Although, I need to make one of a smaller width as you can see I had to stick a spare body tube in the BMN so it would reach the other side.

View attachment 247863
Click to expand...

I made some, too, from the Handbook (borrowed from the library). I used cardboard somebody gave me. I think it's mat board from a frame shop:
photo 2(5).JPG

You can see my Hornet sitting on one in the back. The mat board is 4" wide, so I took a couple of 12" long pieces and made the base 6" and the uprights 3". They're plenty strong.
 
Last edited:
Primed and drying in the garage.... (primer really isn't that white...iPhone's over-exposed it a bit. It's a nice medium grey.)

photo (1).jpg
 
gna said:
You can see my Hornet sitting on one in the back. The matt board is 4" wide, so I took a couple of 12" long pieces and made the base 6" and the uprights 3". They're plenty strong.
Click to expand...

Sometimes you can pick up scrap mat board very cheap at frame shops.
They will sell or give you the smaller center squares left over from the frame borders.
I also use it for centering rings.
 
MichaelRapp said:
I didn't have any time to work on the rocket during the week, but that was okay as I needed the replacement parts from Apogee to arrive. I assembled the motor mount (attaching the shock cord correctly this time) and applied wood filler to the fins and the spirals in the body tube.
The wood filler didn't seem all that difficult and it doesn't take much water to thin it to the consistency of thick toothpaste. Brushing it on the fins was fairly straightforward. I remembered to do the edges, too. I may have done it a bit too thick, but we'll find out.
As I had a substantial amount of CWF leftover, I decided to try filling the spiral on the rocket's body tube. This afternoon I watched Chris Michelssen's NARCON 2014 Technical Session in which he describes a cool trick to use a X-Acto knife to fill in the spiral (32:35 in the video). Alas, my CWF seemed to be too thin for this trick as instead of getting it in the spiral, it just fell off the blade to the area next to the spiral. I decided to apply it with a syringe and roughly smooth it out with my finger./QUOTE]

I hope the NARCON session video helped out
From the blog, here's a good mix ratio to start with:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2010/09/carpenters-wood-filler-mix-ratios.html
Click to expand...
 
hcmbanjo said:
Sometimes you can pick up scrap mat board very cheap at frame shops.
They will sell or give you the smaller center squares left over from the frame borders.
I also use it for centering rings.
Click to expand...

It would be easy to make some smaller cradles with scraps. I've wondered if I could double it and make fins for smaller rockets, too.

I thought it looked very similar to the centering ring material that comes with kits. I got an order of bicycle spokes in a mailing tube, and I'm thinking of turning it into a rocket. I put my X-acto knife in a compass and tried to cut some centering rings from the mat board. Seems to work ok, but takes a long time.
 
Last edited:
hcmbanjo said:
I hope the NARCON session video helped out
Click to expand...

Absolutely it did! In fact, the rocket I just primed was done with the Duplicolor Filler/Primer you recommended. Of course, I don't have anything really to compare it to, but it went on exceptionally easily and sands easily too. It is absolutely uncanny....my tube, which I know full well is cardboard, is beginning to look like plastic! That's just so cool. :)
 
MichaelRapp said:
Absolutely it did! In fact, the rocket I just primed was done with the Duplicolor Filler/Primer you recommended. Of course, I don't have anything really to compare it to, but it went on exceptionally easily and sands easily too. It is absolutely uncanny....my tube, which I know full well is cardboard, is beginning to look like plastic! That's just so cool. :)
Click to expand...

That NARCON video was great. I ran out and got some of the Dupli Color Filler-Primer, and it worked really, really well.

Unfortunately, I rushed the painting of the main/primary colors - with our weather getting colder, and my work & travel schedule ramping up again, I felt like "if I don't get it done now, I won't get it done until March/April."

It wasn't extremely bad, I probably just need to do some touch up. In any event, for the 1000th time, I learn to not rush a paint job...
 
I didn't mean to abandon my own thread, but I was so busy.....well, building. :)

I have essentially completed the Apogee Avion (red fins) and the Sunward Bug-Me-Not (yellow fins) and I'm really, really happy with the way they turned out. Neither is perfect, but for my first builds I'm quite excited by about how well I did. (The only things left to do are the decals for the Avion and to attach the steamer for for Bug-Me-Not.)

photo.jpg

I did the fins of the Avion with CWF and the fins of the BMN by skining them with paper. Honestly, they are about equal in appearance with the Avion's being just a bit smoother. The BMN's edges are rougher as I did not do a good job of trimming the paper to the edges of the fins. I'm a big fan of the skinning method now and probably will do it on all future rockets. They key for me is to keep the glue to an absolute minimum and take care with those edges.

I got the tubes decently smooth. I did the Avion's final priming sanding with 800 grit wet sandpaper and the BMN's with just 800 grit sandpaper (no water). The Avion's coat might be just a tad smoother, but not by much. (Of course, I don't know how much of this is due to how I applied the white paint.) I'm going to try the wet sandpaper one more time on the Baby Bertha I'm doing. I don't particularly like getting the model damp.

I've been working on these models each weekend for about a month now and my confidence at building has skyrocketed. The BMN is probably just a bit better constructed as I would do something on the Avion, then do it again and slightly better on the BMN.

Hopefully I'll get to fly them this weekend!
 

Similar threads

SCIGS30
Vintage Estes Cougar and other builds
Replies
2
Views
137
samb
samb
SCIGS30
Estes Starlight build
Replies
2
Views
378
SCIGS30
SCIGS30
SCIGS30
Vintage Centuri MX-774 Build
Replies
6
Views
377
SCIGS30
SCIGS30
Back_at_it
Estes Little Joe I build thread
Replies
9
Views
693
Back_at_it
Back_at_it
Wrightme43
Estes Corvette Class Build Questions
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
Wrightme43
Wrightme43

Latest posts

Back
Top