Rail buttons...an afterthought. Any tips?

[g-train]

I've been holding off on finishing my Leviathan for one reason. Rail buttons. I had most of this beast built before I gave any thought to launch lugs or rail buttons. Now, my rocket is basically sealed (no way to get my hands down the 3" BT to place a square of wood) and I'm not sure enough of the rocket measurements to confidently drill holes to find my CR's. What is the best option I have without mangling my beautifully primered rocket?

g-train

 

[rail-buttons]

I just figure out where to put the buttons and drill a 1/8" hole and screw then in.

Then remove the button and squirt a little CA and reinstall the button. ( not necessary IMO since the Leviathan has a thick body tube.)

There is no need to drill into the centering rings or put a "block of wood" inside the body tube.

 

[g-train]

Considering that I bought my rail buttons from you, Randy, I will take that advice and out it to good use! Thanks!!

 

[r1dermon]

Well nuts. Drill hole, insert well nut, screw rail button in...very sturdy attachment method.

 

[g-train]

r1dermon,

Are well nuts inserted from the inside of the BT or the outside? I don't have long skinny arms that can fit into the BT as far down as I need to go.

g-train

 

[Handeman]

Well nuts, or Rubber Insulated Rivet Nuts as McMaster Carr calls them, are inserted from the outside. Just put the well nut on the end of the screw, push into the hole and tighten the screw. The rubber expands as the screw is tightened and holds everything in.

 

[r1dermon]

I need to do this shortly to a 3" rocket I built years ago with a lug. Perhaps ill document the process.

 

[Handeman]

I need to do this shortly to a 3" rocket I built years ago with a lug. Perhaps ill document the process.

are you going to remove the lugs, or just put the buttons on a different side of the rocket?

 

[r1dermon]

No...its a bsd 38 spl. Sport rocket, I wouldnt want to limit myself even though it'll probably never fly off a rod again...it will serve as a reminder of when I built it probably close to 7 years ago now.

Buttons will be installed on a different side.

 

[rail-buttons]

Just my opinion, but well nuts are completely unnecessary for a Leviathan.

 

[Area66]

The Leviathan tube is very thin , you need to anchor the screw in a center ring, a piece of wood of best of all something like this:

View attachment 144077

Apogee and Rocket store have them

https://www.allrocketengines.ca/ind...ription=1&keyword=rail+button+&x=-665&y=-1116

 

[rail-buttons]

The Leviathan tube is very thin , you need to anchor the screw in a center ring, a piece of wood of best of all something like this:

View attachment 144077

Apogee and Rocket store have them

https://www.allrocketengines.ca/ind...ription=1&keyword=rail+button+&x=-665&y=-1116

I disagree. The Leviathan has a rather heavy tube. Not quite LOC heavy, but more than enough to support a rail button without any additional support. a little CA in the hole, and you are good to go...again, in my opinion. That's all mine have. In fact, other than level 3 rockets, I've never used anything in addition to screwing them into the body. I've NEVER had the need for a well nut.

 

[Area66]

I don’t know how you can qualify Estes tube as heavy tube…….. Rail buttons that fail on the launch pad can be a security concern.

 

[rail-buttons]

I don’t know how you can qualify Estes tube as heavy tube…….. Rail buttons that fail on the launch pad can be a security concern.

In this case we are talking about the Estes Pro kits. They do have a thicker tube.

 

[sodmeister]

The Estes Pro series tubes are pretty thick ,not LOC thick as mentioned ,but substancial enough.

On my Big Red Max ,I just drilled ,tapped and epoxied my buttons in (nice black and red 3 piecers from Randy :wink....plenty strong and 8 flights in !

Now then ,what I normally do on mid and high paper tubes (Loc) and even BlueTube ,is to cut another 1" x 1" (or larger,depending on the look I want) piece of BT the same size and epoxy it where I will place my buttons.

This gives me a bit of a stand off and gives me double the tube thickenss in which to drill and tap my screws.Once epoxy is applied to the hole ,it is very very strong !

On my bigger stuff ,I do the old ply block to the CRs routine ,or add BT pieces (much like mentioned above) to the inside ,several layers (did this to my AGM-114 hellfire.

I don`t think I have ever seen a button tear off yet.


Paul T

 

[Area66]

In this case we are talking about the Estes Pro kits. They do have a thicker tube.

Well I have one here ( and also a Nike ) and I will qualify it of cheap thin tube. Areotech, Loc ( to name only few ) are twice more thick. I think you just want to sell the idea that it will work, because you have no weld nuts to offer to your customers. You refer your Lev 3 rockets, do you have a lev 3 ? ( I check on your old post to see some of your rockets, but I just found advertizing for you .25 buttons )

 

[rail-buttons]

Well I have one here ( and also a Nike ) and I will qualify it of cheap thin tube. Areotech, Loc ( to name only few ) are twice more thick. I think you just want to sell the idea that it will work, because you have no weld nuts to offer to your customers. You refer your Lev 3 rockets, do you have a lev 3 ? ( I check on your old post to see some of your rockets, but I just found advertizing for you .25 buttons )

I choose not to sell them because I would have to charge more than buying them from McMaster. Not much point in charging customers more for something than they can get it for somewhere else. If you want to use them, fine, but saying that something that I have done and many others as well is wrong, is just...wrong. The one thing about rocketry that i like the most, is there is more than one way to do almost anything in the hobby.

As for a Level 3, yes, had it since 2008. Got it at LDRS28. My TAP's were Rocket Rev Brad Wilson and Erik Gates. TRA# 10385.

 

[sodmeister]

Wow !!

I`d hate to see what happens if you mention 1/2" brass tubes surface mounted to BTs :duck:

Indeed ,always more than one way to skin a cat !

If you are worried about button tearing out of thin tube ,you may also drill your hole ,but a good blob of 5 min epoxy into it with a toothpic ,put another dab on the threads ,screw it in ,turn the tube so the buttons are on the bottom.

The extra epoxy will drip back onto the slighly exposed scews and form a nice rivet/nut ,and also prevent the inards from snagging if exposed.

....see there ,we pretty much have that old cat skinned clean LOL


Paul t (I prefer skinning rabbits)

 

[rail-buttons]

Wow !!


....see there ,we pretty much have that old cat skinned clean LOL


Paul t (I prefer skinning rabbits)

Agreed, cat skinned! ( prefer skinned pigs...BACON!..and ribs!)

 

[g-train]

Agreed, cat skinned! ( prefer skinned pigs...BACON!..and ribs!)

I appreciate all the ideas here, and since I don't have an area to launch this beasty very often I won't be too worried about things coming apart. I did think of sanding a long, narrow piece of ply to conform to the tube and applying the rail buttons to that as well. Thanks, all, for your tips!!

g-train