Flight Report - First flights! :)

[ArthurSull]

Hello!

As some of you might have seen, I've been building my first two proper mode rockets since Christmas, and many of you have helped me tremendously.

On Sunday I went to my first launch which was run by East Anglian Rocketry Society, and I had a great time. It was awesome seeing high power rockets, and other models and just to talk to people first hand about rocketry helped so much.

I picked up a pack of D12-5s, which I thought would suit both my D Region Tomahawk and V2. Well, my Tomahawk's first flight was very underpowered. Over here in the UK you can't legally obtain BP E size motors, so I had to stick Ds in them as I've not got around to stepping up to CTI yet.

It slowly took off the pad and maybe only got up to a 100 or so feet, with the deployment coming way after apogee. Some shock caused a bit of zipper despite my long length of Kevlar but it wasn't too bad, and it sure was a sight to see it fly after so long.

I set up my V2 ready for launch on another D12-5, and this one really went. I'm not good at judging heights yet, but I'd say it got up in the mid 100s of feet, with a perfect ejection at apogee.

The only thing I wish I did different was attach a smaller chute, as I had a 24 on, and it drifted a longgggg way. Rocket recovered successfully though with no damage

With the last motor I put back in my Tomahawk, with the flight seeming more underpowered than the first. I but of a gust cocked it almst past 45 degrees just after launch, and it went to lawndart but ejected maybe 20ft off the ground which didn't allow the chute to unravel but it did slow the rocket down enough to not cause any damage.

Well, I'm hooked!

My next step is buying a 29mm CTI, and stepping up to maybe a Pro Series II or another larger kit. The Leviathan looks great, or some of the 38mm PML scale kits are enticing me, if I can convert them to 29mm. After finishing both the Tomahawk and V2 to a quality I am proud of, I think the next logical step would be these kits.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gymPJDpuyaY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sol11Esc7-Q

 

[BABAR]

Congrats on the flights!

 

[dixontj93060]

Nice looking V2!

 

[samb]

Well done and a long time comin'. Since returning to the hobby I have found flying with a group to be much more fun and educational. After a while you'll get a better feel for motor selection based on your rocket and the flying conditions. Over here, the National Association of Rocketry publishes specs for commercial motors, Here's the link for the D12:

https://www.nar.org/pdf/Estes/D12.pdf

The recommended max liftoff weight is one piece of info you would consider, along with the aerodynamic efficiency of a particular model and the weather conditions (mostly wind speed) at flight time. Even so, getting the right delay is part of the art.

 

[ArthurSull]

Well done and a long time comin'. Since returning to the hobby I have found flying with a group to be much more fun and educational. After a while you'll get a better feel for motor selection based on your rocket and the flying conditions. Over here, the National Association of Rocketry publishes specs for commercial motors, Here's the link for the D12:

https://www.nar.org/pdf/Estes/D12.pdf

The recommended max liftoff weight is one piece of info you would consider, along with the aerodynamic efficiency of a particular model and the weather conditions (mostly wind speed) at flight time. Even so, getting the right delay is part of the art.

Ah thanks. Yeah the max liftoff weight is useful. I just figured it out...a bit too late. My Tomahawk weighs in without a motor at around 340-350 grams, that's 60-70 grams overweight for a D12-5.

Not safe at all!

Well now at least I know

 

[beerandrockets]

Cheers on the flights! I was in the same place as you about a year ago, went to my first launch, got hooked.

I'd put a plug in for the Pro Series II kits as a good next step. That was what I did when I wanted to move up to mid power. I got my first taste of through-the-wall fin mounting and thinking about engine retention more than friction fitting and metal hooks. They fly great on the Estes F and G motors and also on the smaller 29mm reloads.

I eventually broke my PSII Nike Smoke going for my Level 1 cert with an H, but I've heard from others who have done it successfully.

In terms of 38mm to 29mm conversion, you can always get one of these: https://aeropack.net/motoradapters.asp I used one on my second Level 1 attempt because I didn't want to buy a 38mm casing yet.

It adds some weight to the rear end of the rocket so you might need to add some nose weight depending on the rocket, but lets you use a bunch more motors.

Beautiful V2, btw!

 

[ArthurSull]

Cheers on the flights! I was in the same place as you about a year ago, went to my first launch, got hooked.

I'd put a plug in for the Pro Series II kits as a good next step. That was what I did when I wanted to move up to mid power. I got my first taste of through-the-wall fin mounting and thinking about engine retention more than friction fitting and metal hooks. They fly great on the Estes F and G motors and also on the smaller 29mm reloads.

I eventually broke my PSII Nike Smoke going for my Level 1 cert with an H, but I've heard from others who have done it successfully.

In terms of 38mm to 29mm conversion, you can always get one of these: https://aeropack.net/motoradapters.asp I used one on my second Level 1 attempt because I didn't want to buy a 38mm casing yet.

It adds some weight to the rear end of the rocket so you might need to add some nose weight depending on the rocket, but lets you use a bunch more motors.

Beautiful V2, btw!

Are these sorts of things available for Cesaroni reloadable motors, as I will be using them instead of Aerotech. I know I can convert down to 29mm easy enough, but if there was a way to not do it permanently that'd be awesome.

 

[Davidtmp]

The aeropack adapters are not an aerotech product.....they are designed to be used with the aeropack retainers, but they would probably work with the estes retainers on the PSII kits as well. They just slip in and the retainer holds everything in place.
I'm a little confussed why your rocket is so heavy. I have the old one, as well a new one still in the package...maybe they are heavier. A D12-3 would probably be your best bet in BP motors. You could look at the CTI 24mm reloads and stick an E in there, if you can get reloads ok over there.

 

[ArthurSull]

Ah, I see. Yeah I may get a 24mm reload for this one next time.

The Tomahawk is a lot of heavier because I didn't build it stock. I wanted to build it in such a way that it would prepare me for bigger rockets and moving on up to Mid power. Therefore, I built my own baffle system (half-moon style), and with D rings and swivels and an upgraded chute, oh I used some nomex as well just for safe measures. Along with the way too much epoxy this probably all added up a bit more. I know it's all overkill, but I learnt some good techniques which I can now use on some bigger rockets

 

[beerandrockets]

I fly Cesaroni as well. This will work with either company. Here's how the retainer/adapter works:
(I'm demo-ing on a destroyed rocket since it's the only 38mm I have at the moment. Totally my fault - put too much weight in the nose to fly it on an engine way too big for it. Drag separated right after burnout and tore apart)

Start with a 38mm aeropac engine retainer:

If you want to fly a 38mm motor, load it in the casing, slide the casing in and screw it down and you're done.

If you want to fly a 29 mm motor, slide in the adapter first:


Then slide in the 29mm casing with the motor in it:


Then screw the whole thing down.


Really easy to switch between the two. This is how I got my Level 1. I destroyed the rocket going for my Level 2.

 

[ArthurSull]

I fly Cesaroni as well. This will work with either company. Here's how the retainer/adapter works:
(I'm demo-ing on a destroyed rocket since it's the only 38mm I have at the moment. Totally my fault - put too much weight in the nose to fly it on an engine way too big for it. Drag separated right after burnout and tore apart)

Start with a 38mm aeropac engine retainer:
View attachment 132212
If you want to fly a 38mm motor, load it in the casing, slide the casing in and screw it down and you're done.

If you want to fly a 29 mm motor, slide in the adapter first:
View attachment 132213

Then slide in the 29mm casing with the motor in it:
View attachment 132214

Then screw the whole thing down.
View attachment 132215

Really easy to switch between the two. This is how I got my Level 1. I destroyed the rocket going for my Level 2.

That.Looks.Amazing.

Seriously though, what a great idea. Wonder if I can get any UK vendors to get some over. If not I'll def consider ordering a few myself

 

[ArthurSull]

So...it has to be attached to the end of the MMT. I'm guessing that means that the MMT has to be extended below the BT so there is room to attach it. Is that common on mid power rockets or would I have to do it myself?

I'm looking at either a Pro Series II or the PML Pit Bull or PML Patriot for my next 'big' build.

 

[beerandrockets]

It looks bigger than it is. The motor retainer only needs about 1/2" of motor mount tube to attach to, and most kits seem to leave this much space between the aft centering ring and the end of the MMT. Admittedly, I've only built two rockets so far that use these motor retainers, but I didn't have to change the position of the MMT on either one of them.

 

[Rex R]

I note that PML has a black brant V(2.6" dia.) available with either a 29 or a 38mm mount...methinks that if I were to do it again I would get the 29mm version(better choice of motors if you want to get it back ).
rex

 

[Sully]

I set up my V2 ready for launch on another D12-5, and this one really went. I'm not good at judging heights yet, but I'd say it got up in the mid 100s of feet, with a perfect ejection at apogee.

I like the videos, especially the V2: that's always a great rocket and yours was fast and straight! You will get more of a sense of altitude, but it's fun to track with altimeters, too. If you're a bit geeky (be honest!), adding electronics and gadgets to rocketry is a perfect mix. I recommend the JollyLogic Altimeter 2, which is a great little device that will tell you the apogee height as well as a bunch of other things about your flight. It helps when getting a feel for how your rockets behave with different motors. If you don't have a local distributor, and end up placing an overseas order, add this to the list: it's tiny and shouldn't add to the shipping cost.

 

[Davidtmp]

The Tomahawk is a lot of heavier because I didn't build it stock.

That makes sense. No harm in learning on smaller stuff.

 

[JeromeK99]

Congrats on your first fights!

Still to this day, I get a thrill seeing just about any rocket go up!

I thoroughly enjoy model rocketry especially LPR. Everybody likes to think it means "moving up" when you venture to MPR and HPR. Maybe in a few ways like, re loadable motors, electronics... and of course more powerful motors, oh and more money, but the building skills are actually a lot easier for kits. Granted you are making them stronger to withstand higher velocities and forces, but most of the kits are quite simple. Weight is less of an issue. Just stick a bigger motor in! Build it strong, its not going to shred or break. It can be quite challenging to build a more complex and light weight rocket. Seldom are there many original or unique HP rockets at launches. Minimum diameter 3FNC or 4FC.. maybe a few short stubbies or a semi scale missile.. they all cost a ton to build and some a ton to launch! I like all rockets, so i love to watch them launch, but I don't have the urge to buy or build them much. I get all the satisfaction I personally need with LPR and MPR. At $30 for even a small "H", I can launch around over a dozen 18mm BP "A-C", 9 BP "D", 9 18mm AP "D", 6 BP "E", 4-6 AP "E"or a couple of "F" or various combinations....

Hmm.. sort of got off track there... What my original thought was before my LPR tirade was that you don't need to overbuild MPR unless you are firing off G motors. I have built and launched many MPR "E" and even "F" rockets with little changes if any in the way my LPR are built. The biggest concern is stability. Often just a little nose weight to compensate for the more powerful motor. All overbuilding does is add extra weight as you have seen. This also greatly reduces the range of motors most MPR rockets can take.

My buddy doesn't do LPR anymore.. a few MPR and HPR... He'll launch 2.. maybe three times when we go to an event like ROC here in So.Cal... I can launch 6-12 rockets and still have spent less than half of what he did. I love scratch building, cloning O.P. kits, boost gliders, clustering and staging. I get the whole range of the rocket experience.

Just something to think about. Everyone should get what they want out of their hobby!


Jerome

 

[Fred Garvin]

Great looking V2! I've been considering moving up to Mid Power....looking at some of the Aerotech starter kits with reloadable motors.....I only fly up to E but mostly up to just C.....if I move up to Mid-Power the costs increase so much...I can get 9 C launches or one Mid Power launch for the same $$. Trouble is....now that I've found this forum....all bets are off....dang it.

 

[ArthurSull]

Great looking V2! I've been considering moving up to Mid Power....looking at some of the Aerotech starter kits with reloadable motors.....I only fly up to E but mostly up to just C.....if I move up to Mid-Power the costs increase so much...I can get 9 C launches or one Mid Power launch for the same $$. Trouble is....now that I've found this forum....all bets are off....dang it.

Yeah! I thought I was quite happy taking my time doing LPR scale stuff, but after seeing some MPR and HPR launches I now want to do that as well! I want to do all of it! :cry:

 

[ArthurSull]

At $30 for even a small "H", I can launch around over a dozen 18mm BP "A-C", 9 BP "D", 9 18mm AP "D", 6 BP "E", 4-6 AP "E"or a couple of "F" or various combinations....

When you put it like that

But yes, you're absolutely right. It's not about moving up or being better than someone else, it's about doing what makes you happy in a community that welcomes that.

I was a bit worried that my small LPR rockets would be out of place at the launch and that as a newcomer I might have a hard time, but it was in fact the opposite. People were just as excited with the model rocket launches as the HPR launches, and people commending me on my efforts made me feel great.

 

[JeromeK99]

It is nice to be surrounded by people in the rocket community that have such a positive attitude. I can't ever remember going to a launch and having someone ruin it for me. Everybody is always willing to help their fellow rocketeers!


Jerome :grin: