blackpowder substitutes.

[kzimmerman]

So, black powder is getting ridiculously difficult to find. Can you use anything else? Pyrodex? smokeless powder? There are quite a few blackpowder replacements for muzzle loaders, can any of them be used to eject a parachute?

 

[cerving]

I use Hodgden Triple Seven, it's a "smokeless powder" so no LEUP is required. As with any of these, you need to contain it tightly to get a good pop. I use large drinking straws cut down to an appropriate size (about 3/4" works for most MPR rockets), pack the powder in with a Q2G2 igniter, and tape the heck out of it with masking tape until it feels relatively hard. Never had one fail.

 

[sunderll]

A few years ago, one of the guys at the launch made his own. It was 100% the same as FFFF. It took hims about an hour of actual work and he made 200 grams each batch. He used willow charcoal, and you need a rock tumbler. There are many places that tell how to do it.

 

[JFlagg]

A few years ago, one of the guys at the launch made his own. It was 100% the same as FFFF. It took hims about an hour of actual work and he made 200 grams each batch. He used willow charcoal, and you need a rock tumbler. There are many places that tell how to do it.

Ball milling to make black powder is relatively dangerous and requires the right equipment and a good amount of isolation from structures and people. All of which will well exceed the cost of a pound of Pyrodex or other substitute. If one really wants to make home made black powder, there are other methods that are safer, but none are 'safe'.

Amateur pyro is a whole 'nother kettle of fish and depending upon where you live, can be a regulatory nightmare. Just picture a bunch of Hazmat guys in moon suits searching your property and the difficultly in find a pound of black powder or Pyrodex looks pretty cheap.

 

[GregGleason]

If you are going to go this route (i.e., DIY BP), before doing anything READ READ READ.

One of the best bits of information I have read regarding BP is what Jimmy Yawn wrote (emphasis mine):

So now you have made some black powder. I consider this to be one of humanity's finest achievements, and
encourage you to become familiar with it. In small quantities. May your burns be minor and your injuries
trivial. The dragon bites: keep him little.

Greg

 

[kzimmerman]

I do not wish to make my own. I could, yes, but I don't wnt the hassle and I'm pretty sure I would get into significant trouble by doing this. So, DIY is out.
Has anybody else used the smokeless powders, they are available everywhere.

 

[WillMarchant]

https://www.pratthobbies.com/info_pages/pyrodex/pyrotest.htm or get ejection charge kits from https://valuerockets.com/product_details.aspx?pid=14&itemid=67

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Get the real stuff Note prices include HAZMAT, 5 lb is under $125. If 5 lb. is too much, place a group order.

https://www.powderinc.com/catalog/order.htm

 

[T-Rex]

I used to make my own when I was young and stupid. The chemicals were available in the home remedies section of the local drug store. Just mixed the dry ingredients in a can, and had fun. It wasn't truely BP because I didn't know about the last step. Probably the only reason I didn't blow myself up. If a kid tried it today, the parents would probably end up in jail.

 

[ClusterNut]

I am getting ready to try dual deploy and have been looking at ways to get black powder. Seems like more trouble than it will be worth. I have searched through the forum and see that pyrodex is a viable substitute if it is properly contained so that it "explodes" rather than "smokes". How does this approach sound? I have some snap cap centrifuge tubes (1.7ml). A Quest ignitor can be inserted through a small hole at the base which is then sealed with epoxy. The appropriate amount of pyrodex is placed in the tube and then the tube is packed with dog barf to fill the empty space. Question: should the cap be taped shut? And if so, with what? Would scotch tape hold the cap shut long enough? Also, would packed dog barf be okay for keeping the pyrodex compacted? I do plan to experiment with this but any advice that would reduce the number of test cases would be great.

 

[JFlagg]

The more you confine it, the more it will behave like BP. This is because the burn rate rises as the pressure rises. Wrap it with enough tape and you should get a nice 'pop'.

What's enough? I am afraid this will be trial and error, but be sure to peruse that article linked above by Pratt Hobbies.

 

[cruiten]

I am getting ready to try dual deploy and have been looking at ways to get black powder. *Seems like more trouble than it will be worth...

I had a hard time finding 4Fg here in Southern California and I did not want to pay the huge shipping charge premium associated with ordering on-line.

I ended up calling a Goex distributor (W.A. Murphy, Inc.) and they quickly directed me to a local shop that I was unaware of despite the fact that it was only ten minutes from my work. I picked up a pound and it did not cost me an arm and a leg.

Check out the info at this link and make a couple of calls, you might be pleasantly surprised like I was:https://www.goexpowder.com/distributors.html

...I have some snap cap centrifuge tubes (1.7ml). A Quest ignitor can be inserted through a small hole at the base which is then sealed with epoxy. The appropriate amount of pyrodex is placed in the tube and then the tube is packed with dog barf to fill the empty space. Question: should the cap be taped shut? And if so, with what? Would scotch tape hold the cap shut long enough? Also, would packed dog barf be okay for keeping the pyrodex compacted?

The information at Pratt Hobbies indicates that the cap should be taped shut with electrical tape. I do not think that scotch tape will work for this, but you can use dog barf to keep the pyrodex in place.

If you want to try Pyrodex then you should check this link: https://www.pratthobbies.com/info_pages/pyrodex/pyrotest.htm

By the way, many people have reported success with Hogdon Triple Seven as well.

Good luck,

Cor

 

[BEAR]

I am getting ready to try dual deploy and have been looking at ways to get black powder. Seems like more trouble than it will be worth. I have searched through the forum and see that pyrodex is a viable substitute if it is properly contained so that it "explodes" rather than "smokes". How does this approach sound? I have some snap cap centrifuge tubes (1.7ml). A Quest ignitor can be inserted through a small hole at the base which is then sealed with epoxy. The appropriate amount of pyrodex is placed in the tube and then the tube is packed with dog barf to fill the empty space. Question: should the cap be taped shut? And if so, with what? Would scotch tape hold the cap shut long enough? Also, would packed dog barf be okay for keeping the pyrodex compacted? I do plan to experiment with this but any advice that would reduce the number of test cases would be great.

Instead of mixing up epoxy to close the hole after I install an igniter, I frequently use a hot glue gun. It works great for me and I have used it to seal igniters into soda straws also. I have used crepe paper instead of dog barf to work to fill any voids and then put tape over it. Electrical tape works, but so does duct tape and I have been successful with masking tape. the voids do have to be filled, it has to be packed down a little to make sure it is tight, and then a little pressure from the packing and the tape. And absolutely make sure you are doing ground tests to make sure you have the technique down correctly.

 

[powderburner]

I use Hodgden Triple Seven, it's a "smokeless powder" so no LEUP is required.

If you are using this stuff (or any other commercially available firearm powder) in a legit firearm, federal law indicates that no LEUP/storage locker/record keeping is necessary.

For use in anything besides a firearm, federal law indicates that you are now working with an explosive material that does indeed require all the PITA measures which we have grown to love.

The only way to be absolutely sure is to consult your own attorney....if you can find one that knows anything about this very specific legal subject (IOW, be careful which lawyer you ask, most don't have any better knowledge than guys like cerving).

 

[ClusterNut]

Thanks for all the tips. I will start with masking tape for testing. And I will read the Pratt article carefully.