Estate Sale Coppertop rocket

[cwbullet]

Very nice AV Bay. I like the mounted speaker. That should help make it more audible. If you have problems hearing the beeps, buy a cheap stethoscope.

 

[AGrover]

I also had the same problem as you. Tried level 2 3 times till i got it right. I replaced the speaker wire with new wire (NOT speaker wire) and added a 2nd 9 volt battery in parallel to increase amps. After that I am 5 for 5 launches.

 

[Wayco]

Very nice AV Bay. I like the mounted speaker. That should help make it more audible. If you have problems hearing the beeps, buy a cheap stethoscope.

I do have tinnitus, but can still hear the beeping if it's not too windy or noisy at the launch area. The new external speaker is a lot louder, I'm using another one on my darkstar Jr. Might be adding them to all my new rockets.

I also had the same problem as you. Tried level 2 3 times till i got it right. I replaced the speaker wire with new wire (NOT speaker wire) and added a 2nd 9 volt battery in parallel to increase amps. After that I am 5 for 5 launches.

What type of altimeter were you using? Sounds like bad wiring, but could have been any number of things. More info. would be helpful. Gage of wire, type of ignitor, other connections?

 

[AGrover]

What type of altimeter were you using? Sounds like bad wiring, but could have been any number of things. More info. would be helpful. Gage of wire, type of ignitor, other connections?

Mine was a stratologger and cable cutter with I think was 20 gage and tried 2 types of ignitors they both worked on ground test using the stratologger. But in flight I had the same drop in voltage. The main would not fire in the air. After the flight I hooked up the data link and it would fire.As far as connections I used a terminal connections from R shack.

 

[Wayco]

So here is my first complete design of Coppertop in Open Rocket:

Those that know me will be amazed at this giant leap forward in my computer skills. I still had to get Sharon to help me post it up here in the forum. Among the many questions I still have working with this program, the one that stands out is why the stability is so high? Balancing the rocket on my finger puts the actual CG very close to the indicated CG. The actual mass is also very close at 1689 g. I used the published parameters for the ACME fincan and "eyeballed" the sweep angle to match. I couldn't find a way to duplicate the airfoil, so I selected "airfoil" in the "fin cross section" and estimated the thickness at .32 in. So I thought I would throw it out there to those that have some experience working with OR. Why is this rocket so massively overstable?

 

[CarVac]

The rocket is overstable because there is no motor loaded at the moment.

 

[Wayco]

Even with a motor, it still indicates a very high stability:

I was expecting something around two or three calipers of stability, not six!

 

[Rex R]

long skinny rockets tend to be (apparently) overstable...when in fact the cp shifts from changes in angle of attack faster than a larger dia. bird so a 4cal. margin isn't as much as you might think. other factors are position of the (heavy) av bay, and comparably heavy nose cone. if you were to look at the mean machine you'd see that it seems to be massively overstable too.
rex

 

[CarVac]

Even with a motor, it still indicates a very high stability:

I was expecting something around two or three calipers of stabilty, not six?

It won't be so overstable if you stick a J in there.

 

[Wayco]

Thanks, I feel somewhat relieved. The "J's" are planned when (IF) I get chosen for the "Certify with us" program. This rocket is a test bed for a fiberglass version I hope to scratch build for my L-2 attempt next spring. That's why I was working with Open Rocket, I need to improve my computer skills if I want to build these bigger rockets and fly the bigger motors.

 

[jus_rockets]

Good luck on your next flight and hope everything goes well. I hope to be out there in February or March, and try some DD flights as well.

 

[Wayco]

Good luck on your next flight and hope everything goes well. I hope to be out there in February or March, and try some DD flights as well.

I hope you have better luck than I have been having with dual deploy. Another failure to deploy the main chute at this months launch. This time both ejection charges fired, but due to a recent blast shield addition, the ejection gasses were trapped in the bottom of the payload, which showed signs of over-pressure.This time the lower body tube failed on impact, mainly due to the streamer which deployed at apogee and created enough drag to streamline the fincan and increase the descent rate dramatically. Yet another LOC 54mm body tube and I'm rebuilding it once again.
The screen shot of the voltage drops is similar, but this time there was sufficient omph to fire both charges:

Does anyone have a screen shot of their voltage from the Stratologger 100? I don't have anything to compare this to, and I'm wondering if this is because of my homemade ignitors?
I took that shot with my Canon point and click because I couldn't figure out a way to transfer it here any other way.

 

[Rex R]

'prnt scn', then paste into an image program(irfanview, mspaint) save as .jpg
rex

 

[Wayco]

'prnt scn', then paste into an image program(irfanview, mspaint) save as .jpg
rex

Dang Rex, you are just chock full of good stuff:

Now, you wouldn't have a similar shot from your Stratologger would you?
I know someone out there should have something I can compare this too.....

 

[Rex R]

not yet...been a bit chilly for me to trust a 9v battery to maintain voltage. hmm next up is learning to crop the image..., well it is easier than taking a picture of the screen with a camera.
rex

 

[Rex R]

9.4v isn't good for a transistor battery...fresh out of package runs 9.65v. curious can you bring up(on screen) the temperature in the av bay during the flight?
rex

 

[Madhatter]

not yet...been a bit chilly for me to trust a 9v battery to maintain voltage. hmm next up is learning to crop the image..., well it is easier than taking a picture of the screen with a camera.
rex

Try "ALT+Printscreen" that will copy the current active window.

Also check out the specs if this battery, a bit more expensive but it has more power!
https://cc.ulbi.com/ecommerce/site/techdatasheets/U9VL-J-P.pdf

 

[Wayco]

9.4v isn't good for a transistor battery...fresh out of package runs 9.65v. curious can you bring up(on screen) the temperature in the av bay during the flight?
rex

Not sure the Stratologger stores that data, I'm an obvious noob at dual deploy and this is my first DD altimeter. Maybe I will get some help from all the other Perfectflite owners here on the forum?

Just a little edit for Rex, so he can see this old dog is learning new tricks:

 

[Wayco]

Also check out the specs if this battery, a bit more expensive but it has more power!
https://cc.ulbi.com/ecommerce/site/techdatasheets/U9VL-J-P.pdf

Just noticed your edit Madhatter. Have you used this battery for a DD altimeter? Got a link for where I can get one?

 

[Zeus-cat]

The Stratologger does indeed capture temp. Download the data file and open it with Notepad. You will see all the data in columns and one of them will be labeled temperature.

 

[Wayco]

The Stratologger does indeed capture temp. Download the data file and open it with Notepad. You will see all the data in columns and one of them will be labeled temperature.

Thanks Zeus-cat. This thread has been a great place to get tips on improving my computer skills.
Here is the initial data from my last SL100 flight:
PerfectFlite SL100
Firmware: 1.1
Software: 1.0
Serial Number: 2402
Apogee: 2414' AGL
Ground Elevation: 862' MSL
NumSamps: 1072
Flight Number: 4
Main Setting: 700' AGL
Apogee Delay: 0 Seconds
Drogue At: 12.55 Seconds
Main At: 37.85 Seconds
Comments:

Data: (Time, Altitude, Velocity, Temperature (F), Voltage)
0.00, 1, 0, 66.13, 9.20
0.05, 2, 20, 66.13, 9.20
0.10, 3, 24, 66.13, 9.20
0.15, 5, 28, 66.13, 9.20
0.20, 5, 38, 66.15, 9.20
0.25, 8, 46, 66.15, 9.20
0.30, 11, 55, 66.13, 9.20
0.35, 15, 64, 66.13, 9.20
0.40, 17, 73, 66.15, 9.20
0.45, 22, 82, 66.15, 9.20
0.50, 27, 91, 66.15, 9.20
0.55, 31, 99, 66.15, 9.20
0.60, 37, 107, 66.15, 9.20
0.65, 43, 115, 66.15, 9.20
0.70, 48, 122, 66.15, 9.20
0.75, 56, 127, 66.15, 9.20
0.80, 62, 133, 66.15, 9.20
0.85, 69, 139, 66.15, 9.20
0.90, 76, 145, 66.15, 9.20
0.95, 83, 152, 66.15, 9.20
1.00, 92, 160, 66.15, 9.20

Here is drogue deployment:
12.50, 2410, 11, 66.33, 9.20
12.55, 2410, 7, 66.33, 9.20
12.60, 2411, 3, 66.33, 3.30
12.65, 2411, -1, 66.34, 3.30
12.70, 2411, -4, 66.33, 3.30
12.75, 2411, 1, 66.33, 2.50
12.80, 2397, 10, 66.33, 2.60
12.85, 2415, 17, 66.33, 2.60
12.90, 2415, 21, 66.34, 2.60
12.95, 2415, 21, 66.34, 2.50
13.00, 2414, 11, 66.33, 2.50
13.05, 2415, 3, 66.34, 2.50
13.10, 2414, -5, 66.33, 2.50
13.15, 2413, -12, 66.34, 2.50
13.20, 2412, -15, 66.33, 2.60
13.25, 2412, -16, 66.34, 2.60
13.30, 2411, -17, 66.34, 2.60
13.35, 2409, -17, 66.34, 2.50
13.40, 2408, -18, 66.34, 2.50
13.45, 2409, -18, 66.33, 2.50
13.50, 2407, -18, 66.34, 2.50
13.55, 2406, -19, 66.34, 2.50
13.60, 2405, -20, 66.34, 8.10
13.65, 2404, -22, 66.34, 8.20
13.70, 2404, -25, 66.33, 8.30

Main deployment:
37.85, 684, -97, 66.60, 9.10
37.90, 683, -100, 66.60, 4.10
37.95, 687, -99, 66.61, 4.00
38.00, 712, -93, 66.61, 4.00
38.05, 683, -85, 66.61, 4.00
38.10, 672, -76, 66.60, 4.00
38.15, 673, -69, 66.61, 3.90
38.20, 680, -68, 66.60, 3.90
38.25, 560, -69, 66.60, 3.30
38.30, 703, -74, 66.60, 3.50
38.35, 681, -79, 66.61, 3.50
38.40, 682, -81, 66.61, 3.40
38.45, 698, -82, 66.61, 3.40
38.50, 679, -83, 66.61, 3.40
38.55, 646, -82, 66.61, 3.40
38.60, 660, -83, 66.61, 3.40
38.65, 648, -85, 66.61, 3.40
38.70, 613, -86, 66.61, 3.40
38.75, 623, -86, 66.61, 3.40
38.80, 618, -86, 66.63, 3.40
38.85, 600, -84, 66.61, 3.40
38.90, 591, -82, 66.63, 8.10
38.95, 623, -79, 66.63, 8.30
39.00, 599, -75, 66.63, 8.30
39.05, 647, -71, 66.63, 8.40

Since I haven't been getting much help with this problem here, I started a new thread in the "Rocketry Electronics and Software" section:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?48387-Stratologger-data&p=470730#post470730

It seems to be getting ignored too, so any ideas on how I can get some help with this problem?

 

[blackjack2564]

This is a typical file for me. I checked 11flights & they all look pretty close to this voltage wise. Small drop----quick recovery. M-tec matches.

I use 32 ga. for making motor igniters that use 12v. I think it may be the 34ga you are using. Most commercial matches use 40-48 ga for low current firing.

You are probably not getting a clean fire. Your wire is most likely "glowing" red for a .5-1 second before the BP ignites. It should turn instantly white hot then burn through, stopping the massive current drain you see.

If you wish to continue making your own use the correct ga wire. BUT....the only thing I won't screw with is making my own matches....there is just to much riding on such a low cost item in the overall scheme of things.


Ps check your matches and see if they burned through. It may not be subjective cause. the BP may have finished them off. Most altimeters will "latch" the power on for 1 second to fire....I see you draining current the entire time.

 

[AZ_Ron]

Hi Wayco! I fly with AHPRA, same field you fly on with SSS.
Is your laundry just too tight in the tube? Sounds like that's the main issue on the second flight.
If you're hand-making ignitors for your deployment charges, that may well be the issue with the first flight.
A lot of guys use the Quest Q2G2 ignitors for deployment charges and report they have very good luck with them.
I use either Ematches, or DIY ignitors from Quickburst. They have very low amperage requirements to fire.
Doing Dual Deployment on those small diameter birds is a little tough. I have a 54mm MD rocket with the same fin can.
It's pretty heavy, so getting adequate chute and harness all crammed in there takes some trial and error!

Ron

 

[AZ_Ron]

I did a quick search and found that David at Quickburst is selling these now...

https://www.quickburst.net/q_match.htm

I like to make a lot of stuff myself, up to and including propellant, but I don't make my own
matches for deployment!!

If you attend ARG at Rainbow Valley next month, (Feb 23/24) I'll give you a couple of e-matches to
try out. I'll most likely be set up close to the Hillbilly's.

Ron

 

[Wayco]

Thanks for the replies, between Jim, AZ Ron and MWC from my other thread it's pretty obvious I need a commercial igniter for my ejection charges. I just ordered 12 Q2G2 igniters from hobbylinc, but would also like to know where I can get M-tec or other e-matches. I will also check with Batteries + here locally for a good alternative to the Duracells I use in Coppertop.

Hey Ron, yes, you are right, it's a little tight in the payload of my rocket. I recently added a blast shield that sits right on top of the ejection charge like CJ describes in his 3" Dark Star build. Problem was the way I packed it wasn't like he posted later. I just stuffed it in the bottom in a manner that caused it to trap the ejection gasses like a chute. It over-pressured the body tube and failed to eject my 36" TF chute. Fortunately, it only costs me $7 for an LOC BT, and I'm back in business. I will get this all figured out with help from guys like you and others that have posted up with great tips.
I'm planning on attending the ARG launch on Feb. 23rd, will you be there? If so, look me up, I will be down on the East end of the flight line.
Here is Sharon and I showing off some of our "Stickershock" rockets:

 

[AZ_Ron]

Wayco, yep, I'll be down somewhere around the Hillbilly's. Check the link I posted above at quickburst. The matches he sells should be just the ticket.
I tend to use a bit more 4F for ejection than most people, I guess I'm a member of the "Blow it up or Blow it out" club.
I use 2 grams on my 4" rockets, which is the size I really like. Not too big, not too small!
I'll be flying a Full 'K'/Baby 'L' motor that Don Alexander is bringing out for me in a 4" rocket I'm working
on now. Dual deployment with dual altimeters. Been a few years since I flew anything, so I've got my fingers crossed
I don't forget anything too important!

Ron

 

[terryg]

Get them from Jack at "Whats Up Hobbies" when he is at ARG or Spring Blast. You can also order "ejection lighters" from Wildman.

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ShowProducts.aspx?Class=846&Sub=848

 

[Madhatter]

Just noticed your edit Madhatter. Have you used this battery for a DD altimeter? Got a link for where I can get one?

Yes, I used it with my Missile works RRC2 it holds up well.

Just google "U9VL-J-P" and you will find many vendors, it was marked by Radio Shack as the 10yr Smoke alarm battery.

 

[Wayco]

This is to document "Coppertop's" last flight. I went to the SSS club launch in Rainbow Valley yesterday. It was windy, so I only made a few flights, one of which was the Coppertop on a CTI I150 Blue Streak. This was my first 54mm reload and I assembled the motor at home using a 1 grain casing the day before the launch. The motor took at least two seconds to ignite and never developed full thrust. No blue flame and the rocket wobbled off the rail and never made it to 200 ft.

This picture was what we found after we put out the fire:

Here is a shot of the damage when the rear closure failed:

I have filed a M.E.S.S. report with NAR and PM'ed Jeroen and CTI.
Pretty sure I'm done with rebuilding this rocket. I will salvage what I can and use it for other projects. Not sure I can trust a toasted fincan, but the nosecone might be salvageable. The real loss is the retainer, never seen one like it before. It might have been custom made or an old version of the Aeropac. Haven't been able to remove the case from the fincan, it seems to be welded into the retainer.

 

[jus_rockets]

This sucks! and I feel your pain. Was the altimeter and AV bay saved?