Sending A Rocket To The Moon! (Progress Sheet)

rocket sok
Onebadhawk
SilicdyneTRF
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I actually got in touch with Ky, about my project, he seems interested. I knew I had to get him on board, because he has years of experience and has actually done a good deal of work with rockets for the past few decades.
 
I'm going to assume the OP is truthful and on the level just for simplicity.

More questions for the OP:

Someone asked about previous launches - you replied with the number - were any of these LEO attempts? Is there a reason you have not if you have not?
Your vehicle weight mentioned for the payload of the balloon - did this include your support equipment needed to maintain cooling on the LOX etc?
Have you calculated your minimum exit velocity? I think it is around 36,000 ft/s or 25,000 mph to reach the moon. Is this within your theoretical limitations?
Someone asked about guideance systems - how (nothing proprietary) are you planning to make this craft guide itself?
Related Question to above:Have you tested the electronics in vacuum and extreme temps (both hot and cold)?
Is the launch location picked out? How does ITAR play into this?
How do you plan to prove you reached your goal?
What is the most helpful thing you hope to get from talking with us here?


I'm not aware of any hobbist getting a rocket to LEO let alone breaking orbit and escaping Earth's gravity.
 
safari said:
Hi, I am attempting to send a rocket to the moon, with a liquid propellant rocket, and I plan on running the reaction engines at about 30,000 feet above sea level.

I would like to know if anyone would be interested in partnering up with me on this endeavor, or simply giving support and advice.

I need some mathematical calculations done, in regards to the probable time it would take to reach moon orbit from 30,000 feet above sea level, and if a predetermined 3 days time span was established, how many lb's of thrust would need to be exhausted from the rocket in order to reach that goal timing.


I would also like to know fuel/payload ratio for reaching moon orbit, too and specific avionics equipment to setup a positioning system and stream content, and monitor fuel count.

Any other calculations that need to be made please let me know.


This rocket will not use a solid propellant, it will use a liquid propellant consisting of LOX and liquid hydrogen as the oxidizer.


Let me know your thoughts,



Thanks.


- Josh
Click to expand...

After rereading this - I'm going to suggest you read this: https://www.astronautix.com/lvs/julongun.htm It's surprising how much Verne got right.
 
Let's be positive. Even just getting a BB to the moon is getting something to the moon. I have a project that is gaining traction, an SSTO. I've talked about it before and got flak too...
 
shrox said:
Let's be positive. Even just getting a BB to the moon is getting something to the moon.
Click to expand...

C'mon Shrox! You and I both know that a Big Bertha will shred before it ever gets up to escape velocity!

G.D.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
shrox said:
Let's be positive. Even just getting a BB to the moon is getting something to the moon. I have a project that is gaining traction, an SSTO. I've talked about it before and got flak too...
Click to expand...

Agreed - but I would like answers rather than complaints about how we aren't supportive. I think my questions and observations were on target - I also think the OP needs to be more careful how he asks for help - insulting the forum in a blanket statement isn't going to win friends and influence anyone.
 
I have to say, I find this interesting. If you're sincere, I applaud you for the audacity of your attempt. It seems these days nothing is tried for the sake of trying it. That said, I have to agree with the many others who have already mentioned that those with massive budgets have tried this and failed. I wish you luck. IF, you're mining information to satisfy course work...shame on you.
 
safari said:
Just because you haven't done something, does not enable every one else void of success in the same endeavor.

If you read correctly, with two eyes, you would see I specifically stated that "We will have on our team" these qualified people, as I have assigned partners who are currently talking to them about the project, and have yet to complete the deal.

You come to conclusions too quickly.
Click to expand...

You need to talk people into helping you and you are driving them away by responding in an angry and hurt fashion.
 
Mushtang said:
Seeing how most of us, including me, build rockets that have fins slightly out of alignment and we occasionally leave launch lugs off, I'd think that even a group of 100 of us couldn't get a liquid fueled rocket into Low Earth Orbit, let alone to the moon.
Click to expand...

TRF Rocketeers. We put a man on the moon. We really did not mean to and are desperately trying to figure out how to get him back...
 
UncleVanya said:
Agreed - but I would like answers rather than complaints about how we aren't supportive. I think my questions and observations were on target - I also think the OP needs to be more careful how he asks for help - insulting the forum in a blanket statement isn't going to win friends and influence anyone.
Click to expand...

Well, I could do a lot with 1.5 million. Certainly could reach 120 miles.
 
There are no motors capable of doing this with the budget you have. No one can build you one for $1.5 mil. That's not even enough for the launch facilities needed for a LOX/Hydrogen rocket. LH needs extreme high pressure to stay liqued, the storage vessel alone would wipe most of the budget. The price of the rocket tank to hold the fuel would take care of the rest.

You won't find much help here. I find the whole idea the equevelant to pissing into a giant fan, all you're going to do is end up wet and smelly.
 
dave carver said:
There are no motors capable of doing this with the budget you have. No one can build you one for $1.5 mil. That's not even enough for the launch facilities needed for a LOX/Hydrogen rocket. LH needs extreme high pressure to stay liqued, the storage vessel alone would wipe most of the budget. The price of the rocket tank to hold the fuel would take care of the rest.

You won't find much help here. I find the whole idea the equevelant to pissing into a giant fan, all you're going to do is end up wet and smelly.
Click to expand...

Maybe by asking questions, he'll go hybrid...

Funny, while his fashion of query may be coarse, it's something I could do. With a hybrid of course.
 
Hi, Uncle Vanya, thanks for your questions.

Someone asked about previous launches - you replied with the number - were any of these LEO attempts? Is there a reason you have not if you have not?

1. No, these were not LEO attempts, this is my groups most ambitious project yet.

Your vehicle weight mentioned for the payload of the balloon - did this include your support equipment needed to maintain cooling on the LOX etc?

1.5 No, but we have the ability to construct more several sets of ultra light helium balloons to support the weight. We need very compact cooling systems in place, and I don't think there is anything on the market currently for compressed and compact cooling systems. If we can't find one, we will build one(hire an engineer along with a company works in this area to create one, and then test it several times before we add the component to our rocket.)

Have you calculated your minimum exit velocity? I think it is around 36,000 ft/s or 25,000 mph to reach the moon. Is this within your theoretical limitations?

2. We have not calculated the MEV yet, we will once we have figured out our fuel capacity on the rocket. But i strongly believe 36K ft/s is within our theoretical limitations.

Related Question to above:Have you tested the electronics in vacuum and extreme temps (both hot and cold)?

3. Once, we have assembled all the electronics in separate parts, we will indeed to testing of all custom electronics in a vacuum and extreme temperatures.

Is the launch location picked out? How does ITAR play into this?

4. Launch location has not been set yet, we have some candidate locations, and will finalize our decision before July 1st 2013.

5. We will have durable, extreme temp cameras enabled that will take video and images and will be wired to a UHF antennae. (These will be positioned in specific spots on the space craft). We will also in later stages try and figure out how to recover parts of the multistage rocket.


What is the most helpful thing you hope to get from talking with us here?


6. I believe everyone, even those with limited knowledge can help, by providing a link to manufacturer or even just giving basic advice, i think it's good to listen to people of all backgrounds instead of going to "the experts" for knowledge.

We also posted this project to inspire the few who think, and imagine to do great things, but society is not so keen on engaging with that thought process.

Both my partners and I are taking this launch very seriously, and we will attempt to make it to moon orbit.

"I'm not aware of any hobbyist getting a rocket to LEO let alone breaking orbit and escaping Earth's gravity. " - We hope to have you redact that statement in the future.

Thank you for these great questions!

Also, we do not need any funding currently. I will not ask any of you to fund this project, and I'm pretty sure that is against the rules here.



Thanks,


- Josh
 
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Hi Dave, great question, we will most likely be renting the LH storage facilities, and launch facilities will be provided by our investors. I am confident we will be able to buy the LH storage vessel with our funds.
 
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Here is the reason I know this is bogus. I was seriously looking at the CATS Prize back in it's day useing a rockoon. I planned on getting the lower prize then use that money to fund the big prize. The big rocket was to be a Dr. Rocket modular custom 2 stage. We planned to use the then new M2500 fuel load, 1 in the upper stage and 3 in the booster. 3 small but very powerful gyros for stabilization on 3 axis.

Now, for this to have worked the whole aparatus needed to be lifted to 100,000 feet, more would be better. The estimated amount of helium was between 15 and 20 bottles, the big bottles. For a rocket capable of getting to the moon you're looking at 50 or more. Moreover you need to start now on the paperwork. You will need clearance from the FAA to pass through their airspace then it's off to the Administrator For Space Transportation for their approval. Both the FAA and the AST are notorious for dragging their feet but that will give you time to build the rocket. I doubt very much they will like the idea of you launching a free floating bomb over the country in a free flight baloon. Even taking it out of the country is problematical. Because your an American, I assume, the AST claims jurisdiction over any space flight no matter where you are at.
 
Is this a "conventional" rocket? (nose cone, slender long body and fins)
 
safari said:
Hi, I am attempting to send a rocket to the moon, with a liquid propellant rocket, and I plan on running the reaction engines at about 30,000 feet above sea level.

I would like to know if anyone would be interested in partnering up with me on this endeavor, or simply giving support and advice.
Click to expand...

I recommend partnering with Davis from Advanced Aero on this:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?12702-HOMEMADE-EXPERIMENT

Maybe you could even combine projects and send the first outhouse to the moon? We're all supporters of the privy-tization of space :)
 
safari said:
But of course, I would guess no one on this forum, has ever launched a rocket to LEO
Click to expand...
On the contrary. At least 3 members of this forum (as far as I can recall) have been directly involved with launches of real space craft to LEO, and a number of others directly involved with operational spacecraft too.
 
dave carver said:
Here is the reason I know this is bogus. I was seriously looking at the CATS Prize back in it's day useing a rockoon. I planned on getting the lower prize then use that money to fund the big prize. The big rocket was to be a Dr. Rocket modular custom 2 stage. We planned to use the then new M2500 fuel load, 1 in the upper stage and 3 in the booster. 3 small but very powerful gyros for stabilization on 3 axis.

Now, for this to have worked the whole aparatus needed to be lifted to 100,000 feet, more would be better. The estimated amount of helium was between 15 and 20 bottles, the big bottles. For a rocket capable of getting to the moon you're looking at 50 or more. Moreover you need to start now on the paperwork. You will need clearance from the FAA to pass through their airspace then it's off to the Administrator For Space Transportation for their approval. Both the FAA and the AST are notorious for dragging their feet but that will give you time to build the rocket. I doubt very much they will like the idea of you launching a free floating bomb over the country in a free flight baloon. Even taking it out of the country is problematical. Because your an American, I assume, the AST claims jurisdiction over any space flight no matter where you are at.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you. I think the only way an Amateur could put any type of rocket or probe on the moon would be with a launch from 100,000 feet or more. How ever I don't think this 20 year old is capable of it or any place near it. He needs to start much smaller. A lower flying rockoon to test various methods of getting the rocket to go vertical and other electronics testing. I tend to think liquid fuels would be more of a hassle then they are worth. Just use a hybrid motor w/ nitrous Oxide.

From everything I've read hybrid motors are more reliable, stable and simpler. I also agree that getting clearance to launch would be difficult.

I think someone could shoot a probe of some sort to the moon. Going into orbit or retrieving is another story entirely.
 
safari said:
These are very good questions.


How many liquid rockets have you built?

Quite a few (15)

How are you getting to 30K feet?

A very light weight balloon setup that has a timed break away and wired to a custom altimeter. (Can hold 6K lb's) - We already have a very reputable high altitude helium balloon manufacturer that would setup the balloons.

How are you controlling trajectory at launch from 30K feet?

Specific trajectory control avionics equipment (custom made) with nitrogen gas stabilizers attached to specific parts of the rocket.

How are you guiding your craft ?

On ground control room setup, with a UHF antenna transmitting radio signals to our antenna here. We will track the trajectory and positioning using on board avionics systems, that will transmit the results to us with a 7 to 9 Ghz range.

What is your proposed budget for this ambitious endeavor.

$1.5 Million

Are you aware, IIRC, only 5 NATIONS have reached lunar orbit (China, Japan, India, Russia, and the US)?

Yes.

Can I ask your age?

20 Years Old.

----------------------------------
Let me know if you have any more questions, and I'll be glad to answer them.


Thanks,


- Josh
Click to expand...

Good luck! I can't help you, but you inspired me to sign up here to follow your project. I came here looking for info on making a rocket to launch with my kid at the park, but I saw this thread and was hooked. You certainly think big!
 
As others have already stated you don’t know enough yet to even be asking the right questions.

However I will try to help you out a little. A great resource is the book “Fundamentals of Space Systems” by Pisacane. https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Systems-University-Laboratory-Engineering/dp/0195162056/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359060086&sr=1-1&keywords=0195162056 This book gives you guidance of how to design a launch vehicle and space system and contains all your basic calculations; hopefully you already know calculus and differential equations.

Another resource to help you simulate your trajectories is Satellite Tool Kit (STK). You can download the free version here: https://www.agi.com/products/stk/modules/default.aspx/id/stk-free

Keep working and soon you might know the right questions.
 
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