WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ANTI-DRAGRACE SENTIMENT???

[crossfire]

Over and out

 

[DavidMcCann]

This is the way we have gone in this USA. We need to be protected from every possible danger even if some one says the sky is falling. I would guess there is a much higher rate of being hurt when we drive to a launch than being hurt at one.

everyone keeps repeating that. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt driving to a launch. Must mean driving is perfectly safe and I should let my kids do it.

 

[crossfire]

Be safe and have fun its a hobby

 

[Steve Shannon]

I don't understand why people continue to characterize this as being overly protective. We cut the safe distance for commercial launch drag races by 50% and then we made the research drag race rule consistent with the commercial rule.
Under some conditions, drag races at Research launches may actually be held at closer distances than before.

 

[crossfire]

911

 

[Steve Shannon]

Steve I thought there no research launches anymore? We can fly research motors at commercial motor launches. So why would there be a research launch? I very much agree we need to keep this hobby safe but we can't get so regulated and take all the fun out of it. So where did this anti drag race get started?

No, you can fly commercial motors at a research launch and even NAR members are allowed to fly commercial motors at a research launch. Because of that there's little need to call a launch anything but a research launch, but a decision has to be made whether a launch is following the HPR safety code (commercial launch) or Research safety code. There's no more requirement for time between launches either.
There's a difference in the safe distance tables for smaller motors.
There is no "anti drag race". We just tried to make the rules consistent and compliant with NFPA 1127.

 

[DavidMcCann]

Steve I thought there no research launches anymore? We can fly research motors at commercial motor launches. So why would there be a research launch? I very much agree we need to keep this hobby safe but we can't get so regulated and take all the fun out of it. So where did this anti drag race get started?

the safety code still references high power launches which only commerical motors can be flown, and research launches, where both can be flown

 

[Charles_McG]

everyone keeps repeating that. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt driving to a launch. Must mean driving is perfectly safe and I should let my kids do it.

My boy drives me to the launch. But can't come out to set up his own H flight. Unless the NAR L1 Jr is reciprocated?

 

[crossfire]

10-4 good buddy

 

[Steve Shannon]

My boy drives me to the launch. But can't come out to set up his own H flight. Unless the NAR L1 Jr is reciprocated?

It's not yet, but we want to get there.

 

[les]

everyone keeps repeating that. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt driving to a launch. Must mean driving is perfectly safe and I should let my kids do it.

There was the time I hit a deer on my way to a launch....

 

[DavidMcCann]

There was the time I hit a deer on my way to a launch....

free lunch...

 

[Lowpuller]

I have to ask..............



Anybody wanna race?????

 

[MClark]

everyone keeps repeating that. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt driving to a launch. Must mean driving is perfectly safe and I should let my kids do it.

Wedge rolled his truck towing the range equipment on the way LDRS at Jean, NV

 

[Steve Shannon]

Wedge rolled his truck towing the range equipment on the way LDRS at Jean, NV

Tim Lehr burned up at least two trailers coming and going from LDRS events. One leaving 24 in Canada.

 

[DavidMcCann]

I'm seeing a trend. We need to ban deer and trailers quick!

 

[Steve Shannon]

I'm seeing a trend. We need to ban deer and trailers quick!

Or make a safe distance table for deer and vehicles!

 

[AHansom]

I didnt think this was new. Weren't the rules about distance to the pads and the 10 rocket rule rewritten after the LDRS drag race 7 years ago?

[video=youtube;XJuQgusAPQg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJuQgusAPQg[/video]

 

[jsdemar]

Or make a safe distance table for deer and vehicles!

Then there's the case of multiple deer. Or is a family of deer considered a cluster of deer? How about moose... are they high-powered deer and require a safer distance from vehicles? Don't forget the genetically-engineered Research deer. EX-pect them to come out of nowhere and cato your car.

:impatient::impatient::happydeer:

 

[dhbarr]

Deer-shaped hybrid saucer cluster drag, got it.

 

[CzTeacherMan]

Then there's the case of multiple deer. Or is a family of deer considered a cluster of deer? How about moose... are they high-powered deer and require a safer distance from vehicles? Don't forget the genetically-engineered Research deer. EX-pect them to come out of nowhere and cato your car.

:impatient::impatient::happydeer:

Deer-shaped hybrid saucer cluster drag, got it.

Funny. But you know... If we made rules against deer and moose, we'd be safer. Because then we could tell our insurance that we mitigated the risks by making rules against deer and moose. Of course, if we got a squirrel, we're screwed and the hobby goes down in flames. FLAMES, I tell ya...
Cthulhu.

 

[Sabrina]

Children and High-Power Rocketry
It’s surprising to me how may certified adults don’t know the rules for children and rocketry. Here’s a quick overview. If you believe any of this is incorrect – please site the code so we can all be informed.

If you don't like reading, here is the key point - The child is never allowed to handle the high-power motor, and the certified adult is always the flyer of record. Children accompanied by a certified adult are allowed to the high-power pads under the NAR safety codes while the TRA code requires the child to pass a written test for access.



ANY Child can BUILD a high-power rocket
A child of any age may build a high-power rocket. There is no age limit and no certification required to build a rocket. Please note this is for the rocket only, not the motor. ADDITIONALLY – the child may give the rocket to a certified adult to fly. The child does NOT even have to be a member of NAR or TRA. The child is never allowed to handle the high-power motor, and the certified adult is always the flyer of record.

Children at the High-Power pads - The difference between NAR and TRA
Children under age 18 are NOT restricted from the high-power pads (with adult supervision) under the NAR safety code. They must not handle the high-power motor, but are not otherwise restricted as long as they are accompanied by a certified adult.

Under Tripoli rules, children age 12 and older, must pass the “Tripoli Mentoring Program” (TMP) written test for access to the high-power area. TMP certified children have an “M” on their membership cards, and are allowed access to the high-power pads when accompanied by a certified adult. They must not handle the high-power motor.

Single use F Motor Limit
By the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) under paragraph 1500.85(a)(8) of Title 16 of the CFR, minor children under age 18 are not allowed to purchase, own, or use, any size reloadable motor or any sparky motor, or any motor larger than “F” class. IN SIMPLE TERMS – this means children under age 18 are limited to single use F motors or below, and may fly them on their own.

Tripoli Mentoring Program
Children age 12-17 must pass a written test to gain “M” certification. This allows the “M” certified child access to the high-power pads when accompanied by a certified adult. The child may not handle the high-power motor, and the certified adult is the flyer of record. Upon attaining age 18, the “M” certification expires. Regular L1 certification must be obtained to re-gain access to High-power.

NAR Jr Level one program
Available to children age 14-17, allows the minor to build and fly high power rockets under the supervision of a certified adult. The minor child is never allowed to handle the high-power motor, and the certified adult is always the flyer of record. Upon attaining age 18, the “Jr L1” certification upgrades to Regular L1 certification. No additional flight required.

 

[crossfire]

111

 

[dhbarr]

Huh. Young children can totally just cluster/stage SU E&F motors up to the FAR101 propellant mass limit?

Guess I hadn't thought of that corner, which seems rather out of whack vs. a single reloadable G.

 

[CzTeacherMan]

Huh. Young children can totally just cluster/stage SU E&F motors up to the FAR101 propellant mass limit?

Guess I hadn't thought of that corner, which seems rather out of whack vs. a single reloadable G.

That's what I was thinking. I remember launching G75-J motors when I was 14. That was back when we made our starters out of thermalite, too.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Children and High-Power Rocketry
It’s surprising to me how may certified adults don’t know the rules for children and rocketry. Here’s a quick overview. If you believe any of this is incorrect – please site the code so we can all be informed.

If you don't like reading, here is the key point - The child is never allowed to handle the high-power motor, and the certified adult is always the flyer of record. Children accompanied by a certified adult are allowed to the high-power pads under the NAR safety codes while the TRA code requires the child to pass a written test for access.



ANY Child can BUILD a high-power rocket
A child of any age may build a high-power rocket. There is no age limit and no certification required to build a rocket. Please note this is for the rocket only, not the motor. ADDITIONALLY – the child may give the rocket to a certified adult to fly. The child does NOT even have to be a member of NAR or TRA. The child is never allowed to handle the high-power motor, and the certified adult is always the flyer of record.

Children at the High-Power pads - The difference between NAR and TRA
Children under age 18 are NOT restricted from the high-power pads (with adult supervision) under the NAR safety code. They must not handle the high-power motor, but are not otherwise restricted as long as they are accompanied by a certified adult.

Under Tripoli rules, children age 12 and older, must pass the “Tripoli Mentoring Program” (TMP) written test for access to the high-power area. TMP certified children have an “M” on their membership cards, and are allowed access to the high-power pads when accompanied by a certified adult. They must not handle the high-power motor.

Single use F Motor Limit
By the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) under paragraph 1500.85(a)(8) of Title 16 of the CFR, minor children under age 18 are not allowed to purchase, own, or use, any size reloadable motor or any sparky motor, or any motor larger than “F” class. IN SIMPLE TERMS – this means children under age 18 are limited to single use F motors or below, and may fly them on their own.

Tripoli Mentoring Program
Children age 12-17 must pass a written test to gain “M” certification. This allows the “M” certified child access to the high-power pads when accompanied by a certified adult. The child may not handle the high-power motor, and the certified adult is the flyer of record. Upon attaining age 18, the “M” certification expires. Regular L1 certification must be obtained to re-gain access to High-power.

NAR Jr Level one program
Available to children age 14-17, allows the minor to build and fly high power rockets under the supervision of a certified adult. The minor child is never allowed to handle the high-power motor, and the certified adult is always the flyer of record. Upon attaining age 18, the “Jr L1” certification upgrades to Regular L1 certification. No additional flight required.

Sabrina, this is an excellent summary.
Thank you. I wish everyone would take the time and make the effort to learn the rules. I hope you will consider a position of leadership within one of the organizations.
Thanks!
Steve


Steve Shannon

 

[Steve Shannon]

When dealing with rule changes that effect all of the membership and very few know about I see no joke in this. New rule in hobby and it went down in flames.

I agree. Rule changes are serious. When they're mischaracterized it creates fear, uncertainty, and doubt. But we've just seen an example of an intelligent young rocketeer who takes the rules seriously enough to do her own research to truly understand what the rules actually say rather than jumping on the bandwagon at the slightest rumor. How do we encourage that kind of behavior for our senior members?
Steve


Steve Shannon

 

[crossfire]

I can tell you how. Keep the membership informed. Let the membership express their option before rule changes are made. Steve do you want us to go to the rule book each Month and see if anything has been changed or will NAR and TRA let us know.

 

[jsdemar]

I can tell you how. Keep the membership informed. Let the membership express their option before rule changes are made. Steve do you want us to go to the rule book each Month and see if anything has been changed or will NAR and TRA let us know.

Oh deer.

Steve Shannon has tried to point out where, when, and how the rules are changed and how they are announced. Please go back an re-read what he has said.

It is difficult to take this thread seriously when it began with misinformation, and continues on with whining. It is ultimately the responsibility of the rocket flyer to understand the rules and regulations. Membership in a national organization provides access to the information, the benefit of insurance coverage, representation at the complex levels of regulation, and an educational structure to the hobby. It doesn't include spoonfeeding for those who think the World revolves only around their Facebook feed.

In the end, we have to understand that all the positions in the NAR and TRA are unpaid volunteers. If you don't like the way it is run, help to make it better.

 

[CzTeacherMan]

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