RocketRage Quantum chutes?

[TWRackers]

Does anyone know if anyone is talking about resurrecting RocketRage and their line of Quantum Chutes? I had one in my (still missing) Level 3 rocket, and I'd love to get another for the rebuild of the rocket. The last time I spoke to the fellow who used to make and sell them, he was considering selling the business to a friend of his. Meanwhile, their web domain www.rocketrage.com apparently expired and has since been picked up by someone else.

In the absence of new chutes, I'd actually consider getting a good used Quantum Chute, but I suspect there aren't a lot of them out there, and probably precious few that people would be willing to part with. But I'm willing to be surprised on that point.

 

[cjl]

If you find anyone who wants to resurrect it, I'd love to know as well. I have a 15, 30, and 50, but as you suspected, I definitely do not want to part with any of them - I like them too much. They are truly excellent products.

 

[cwbullet]

I would have to agree that this would be a good purchase for someone. The chute I have is spectacular.

 

[AlphaHybrids]

We make toroidal parachutes on a limited basis - please see Descent Rate Data for sizing.

Legs

 

[ScrapDaddy]

What features make a Rocketrage chute so much different from any other Parasheet/Parachute?

 

[AlphaHybrids]

They pack tiny - I can fit a 60" parachute into ~6" of 2.5" tube. They also have a high Cd. I've measured Cd values over 1.8 for the parachutes. I've never had a rocket spin or sway while under canopy either. They provide a very stable descent. Mainly, if I'm going to sew a bunch of panels together to form a parachute I'm going to make the most efficient one I can.

Edward

 

[cwbullet]

It is too bad rocket rage is closed. I have one of their chutes. It is very well made.

 

[TWRackers]

What features make a Rocketrage chute so much different from any other Parasheet/Parachute?

For the RRQS-50 I had, besides the eight shroud lines around the perimeter, there are eight more short ones attached to the edge of the spill hole, which are gathered together and attached to a ninth shroud line running down to the strap at the bottom where the eight outer lines also gather. So when the chute inflates, the center line constrains the spill hole to about the same plane as the perimeter, giving the entire canopy a circular airfoil shape. (Visualize a bagel sliced in half edgewise.)

 

[eengelgau]

Hi all, I just came across this thread. The Rage chutes are indeed very nice. But Rocket Rage was getting out of the market about the time I was looking for chutes of that quality. Anyway I started Fruity Chutes and they are at least as high quality of materials, great workmanship and comparable performance. Many of the folks that liked the Rage chutes are now customers of ours so I encourage you to check us out.

 

[cjl]

Hi all, I just came across this thread. The Rage chutes are indeed very nice. But Rocket Rage was getting out of the market about the time I was looking for chutes of that quality. Anyway I started Fruity Chutes and they are at least as high quality of materials, great workmanship and comparable performance. Many of the folks that liked the Rage chutes are now customers of ours so I encourage you to check us out.

Not to try to sound like I dislike you or your products or anything, but from what I can tell, this simply isn't true.

I've used a number of excellent parachutes, and from what I can see on your site, yours are indeed excellent. That having been said, Rocket Rage was indeed in a class of their own as compared to every other chute I have seen in rocketry.

As far as performance goes, your chutes are elliptical. You quote a Cd of 1.4 to 1.5, which is approximately right for that kind of chute. Rocket rage chutes have a Cd of 1.8-2 or even higher, due to the unusual shape. This means a Rocket Rage with less fabric will hold the same weight, while packing smaller

In addition, I've never seen an elliptical chute that was as stable under canopy as a Rocket Rage. I haven't ever used a Fruity Chute though, so I'll leave this parameter in the ambiguous category.

As far as workmanship/materials go, again, I have a hard time believing your claim. Rocket Rage chutes use exactly (and I do mean exactly) the same materials as my $1200 skydiving parachute (a Performance Designs Sabre II), and I have compared the two side by side. In addition, all of the construction techniques, stitching, etc on the Rocket Rage is identical to that used in a ZP skydiving canopy. I've had one of my Rocket Rage chutes (an RRQS30) relined after I managed to toast the shroud lines. The rigger (I had the work done by an FAA rigger who works at the place I skydive) commented that the workmanship was incredible, and he couldn't believe that the 30 pound rated chute sold for only $130. He said that if he were to make it, it would cost >$200 because of the effort involved. Again, I haven't worked with a Fruity Chute, but the pictures on your website do not look like the same type of workmanship as is on the Rocket Rages. I'd be curious to see one in person, but I have a hard time believing it's up to the same standard.

All that having been said, your chutes still look like excellent products. Skydiving-quality workmanship is certainly not necessary on rocketry products, and your quality looks significantly better than a great many HPR chutes, including several well-regarded brands (I'm not a huge fan of Tac and Skyangle chutes for example - I'd take a Fruity Chute over either of them, at least from what I see on your site). They look like an excellent product, and I'd have absolutely no problem recommending them or buying them if I need a new chute. I just think that Rocket Rage was the absolute top of the line, premium chute available to rocketeers, and it's a shame that they aren't available anymore.

(Actually, come to think of it, I do need a new chute or two, so I might head over to your webstore and buy one to see what they look like. I need to dig around my chute pile a bit and make sure that I haven't already got a chute that will work, but I'm pretty sure I don't already have a chute for one of my current projects)

 

[Rocketjoe13]

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice. :rofl: Sorry, I couldn't resist.:wink:

 

[cwbullet]

I love my Rocket rage chute. They no longer exist. Fruity chutes will never replace them, but it is an excellent alternative.

 

[cjl]

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.

:lol:

 

[eengelgau]

Hi CJL - So cool, try them out and see what you think. Then you can objectively compare them. Most would agree it's not really fair to judge a product without trying it. I can tell you is we get consistently excellent feed back on quality and the ability to pack into small volumes. Overall price, performance and quality meets or exceeds my customers expectations.

More on Rage - I've personally closely inspected the Rage chutes (I have friends with them) and I can say without reservation that our chute match up closely in terms of quality of workmanship. But we are not trying to make chutes that are FAA certifiable (and not charging prices for that . The fabric we use is PICA certified for parachute manufacture and if asked I can get the QA testing results for the lots we purchase. But I would agree that there are likely performance considerations and I am very curious about that.

So I'm considering trying the design and doing some field tests on the 60" inflated size. My concern is it will take more fabric and lengthen the gores some and time to sew. But maybe it's awash due to increased performance. There may be labor considerations as well since the design is more complex to sew. But it's worth checking for sure. I'll let folks know what I find.

Later,

 

[Feckless Counsel]

Fruity Chutes,

If your seeking full-fare beta customers then I'll offer funds to explore the possibility. Lowest packed volume to Cd ratio being the thing.

Feckless

 

[cwbullet]

I will test also if you need another. I am sure it will sell.

 

[eengelgau]

So I cut a 72" toroidal design Sunday. It is a 14 gore design same as our 72" custom. I will have it done in about a week. I have the 72 chute as well with lot's of performance data and many flights to compare. The Skirt of the new chute is exactly the same. But the top center will now pull down through the center for the toroid shape. There are some unknowns - like did I get the pattern right. From what I can tell it should look great.

Cost performance is key. For any given size it will take a bit more fabric (maybe 6% more area), and will also have more complex rigging and more shroud connection points (double, top and bottom). So labor is increased. That should be offset though since you can now buy a smaller chute and it is more compact. I'm thinking the 72" toroidal chute will perform at the 84" chute level, at least that is a good goal.

I'll post performance data once I get it. I plan to fly it at the Feb 4th Lunar.org Snow Ranch launch (in the Cal central valley).

 

[GregGleason]

... I'll post performance data once I get it. I plan to fly it at the Feb 4th Lunar.org Snow Ranch launch (in the Cal central valley).

If you do not post the results in this thread, please place a link to the test results.

BTW, I do think it is very cool for a vendor to respond in this way. Creating a prototype for a new high-performance recovery product for possible sale based on end-user input (i.e., from cjl) is the kind of response I like to see from a vendor. Makes me want to consider Fruity Chutes for my recovery needs.

Greg

 

[jaz]

I hope it goes well. I would be very interested in the new chute.

 

[eengelgau]

Hi all, thanks for your support I've wanted to try it for awhile. Customer input is always welcome and how we improve our products. So more soon.

I just checked - the Launch is Feb 5th

 

[JimJarvis50]

Hi all, thanks for your support I've wanted to try it for awhile. Customer input is always welcome and how we improve our products. So more soon.

I just checked - the Launch is Feb 5th

Gene, if you make a quality "rage" clone, I will be among your first customers. I used them a few years ago, including my L3, and I thought they were great.

Jim

 

[karlbaum]

Not to try to sound like I dislike you or your products or anything, but from what I can tell, this simply isn't true.

I've used a number of excellent parachutes, and from what I can see on your site, yours are indeed excellent. That having been said, Rocket Rage was indeed in a class of their own as compared to every other chute I have seen in rocketry.

As far as performance goes, your chutes are elliptical. You quote a Cd of 1.4 to 1.5, which is approximately right for that kind of chute. Rocket rage chutes have a Cd of 1.8-2 or even higher, due to the unusual shape. This means a Rocket Rage with less fabric will hold the same weight, while packing smaller

In addition, I've never seen an elliptical chute that was as stable under canopy as a Rocket Rage. I haven't ever used a Fruity Chute though, so I'll leave this parameter in the ambiguous category.

As far as workmanship/materials go, again, I have a hard time believing your claim. Rocket Rage chutes use exactly (and I do mean exactly) the same materials as my $1200 skydiving parachute (a Performance Designs Sabre II), and I have compared the two side by side. In addition, all of the construction techniques, stitching, etc on the Rocket Rage is identical to that used in a ZP skydiving canopy. I've had one of my Rocket Rage chutes (an RRQS30) relined after I managed to toast the shroud lines. The rigger (I had the work done by an FAA rigger who works at the place I skydive) commented that the workmanship was incredible, and he couldn't believe that the 30 pound rated chute sold for only $130. He said that if he were to make it, it would cost >$200 because of the effort involved. Again, I haven't worked with a Fruity Chute, but the pictures on your website do not look like the same type of workmanship as is on the Rocket Rages. I'd be curious to see one in person, but I have a hard time believing it's up to the same standard.

All that having been said, your chutes still look like excellent products. Skydiving-quality workmanship is certainly not necessary on rocketry products, and your quality looks significantly better than a great many HPR chutes, including several well-regarded brands (I'm not a huge fan of Tac and Skyangle chutes for example - I'd take a Fruity Chute over either of them, at least from what I see on your site). They look like an excellent product, and I'd have absolutely no problem recommending them or buying them if I need a new chute. I just think that Rocket Rage was the absolute top of the line, premium chute available to rocketeers, and it's a shame that they aren't available anymore.

(Actually, come to think of it, I do need a new chute or two, so I might head over to your webstore and buy one to see what they look like. I need to dig around my chute pile a bit and make sure that I haven't already got a chute that will work, but I'm pretty sure I don't already have a chute for one of my current projects)

1.9 oz Zero perosity parachute material has advantages and disadvantages. It weighs more than 1.1 oz ripstop nylon which is not a concern as much for skydivers. It also makes for a harder opening shock. But you can use a smaller canopy for the same size rocket. So the Zero P packs smaller but the Standard ripstop weighs less.

 

[cjl]

1.9 oz Zero perosity parachute material has advantages and disadvantages. It weighs more than 1.1 oz ripstop nylon which is not a concern as much for skydivers. It also makes for a harder opening shock. But you can use a smaller canopy for the same size rocket. So the Zero P packs smaller but the Standard ripstop weighs less.

The ZP used for skydiving chutes and Rage chutes is 1.1 oz ZP, not 1.9, so it is really the best of both worlds. A bit hard to pack though, since it's really slick. Looking at the Fruity Chutes website, it appears that they might use ZP 1.1oz as well, but it's hard to be sure. Gene - do you use ZP, or is it a more permeable fabric that you use?

Oh, and I'd love to hear about the results of your test too. I always love it when a manufacturer responds to customer input (or even in my case, potential customer input).

 

[eengelgau]

Hi all, To clarify - We use 1.1oz calendared rip-stop. Coated RS is more generally available, but heavier, and very slippery making it hard to fold. Air get's caught inside while folding. Rocket Man and other use the coated RS. Most folks who have used our chutes comment on how easy they are to fold because the fabric is well behaved and it's easy to flatten the fabric. The Rage chutes use the same material exactly (as do Pro human chutes for the most part).

There is actually very little performance loss due to using calendared rip-stop as compared to coated. Calendaring is a process where the fabric is rolled under heat and pressure to flatten the nylon strands to close up the gaps in the fabric. So no coating is needed.

 

[rfjustin]

I have (3) Rocket Rage parachutes, my favorite one being the bright orange RRQS100 for my L3 rocket.

I believe the Rocket Rage brand parachutes were manufactured by High Energy Sports: https://www.highenergysports.com/hg_eparachutes.htm. H.E.S currently sells a "QS330" where Rocket Rage used sell an RRQS330, which are both 330lb class chutes. Rocket Rage chutes seemed to simply be smaller versions of emergency parachutes for small aircraft, hang gliders, etc... Photos are from the H.E.S sports website.

https://www.highenergysports.com/documents/quantuminfo.pdf

Justin

 

[cjl]

Hi all, To clarify - We use 1.1oz calendared rip-stop. Coated RS is more generally available, but heavier, and very slippery making it hard to fold. Air get's caught inside while folding. Rocket Man and other use the coated RS. Most folks who have used our chutes comment on how easy they are to fold because the fabric is well behaved and it's easy to flatten the fabric. The Rage chutes use the same material exactly (as do Pro human chutes for the most part).

There is actually very little performance loss due to using calendared rip-stop as compared to coated. Calendaring is a process where the fabric is rolled under heat and pressure to flatten the nylon strands to close up the gaps in the fabric. So no coating is needed.

So it's ZP then (as opposed to something like F-111)?

Your description is somewhat vague. You say that the fabric is well behaved and easy to flatten, but you also say that it's the same material as human chutes and rocket rage (which, having folded both, tend to be very slippery and hard to get air out of). In addition, I haven't heard of any ZP fabric that isn't coated, and you say that yours is not coated (which makes me think that it's something like F-111 instead).

 

[GregGleason]

I have (3) Rocket Rage parachutes, my favorite one being the bright orange RRQS100 for my L3 rocket.

I believe the Rocket Rage brand parachutes were manufactured by High Energy Sports: https://www.highenergysports.com/hg_eparachutes.htm....

The link from Rocket Rage to High Energy Sports appears to be correct:

Greg

 

[eengelgau]

Hi Cjl,

So it's ZP then (as opposed to something like F-111)?

Your description is somewhat vague. You say that the fabric is well behaved and easy to flatten, but you also say that it's the same material as human chutes and rocket rage (which, having folded both, tend to be very slippery and hard to get air out of). In addition, I haven't heard of any ZP fabric that isn't coated, and you say that yours is not coated (which makes me think that it's something like F-111 instead).

It was awhile ago that I looked over the Rage chute, but at the time at least it seemed the same, but maybe I was wrong. You guys who have more experience with them would know. But like I said the nylon we use is not coated, but instead pressed under heat to achieve "low porosity", from 0.3 - 3 cfm sounds right. It is nice material and not overly slippery making it easy to fold and pack without air getting caught.

Anyway you guys can try them for yourself and see once your ready.

 

[cjl]

Hi Cjl,



It was awhile ago that I looked over the Rage chute, but at the time at least it seemed the same, but maybe I was wrong. You guys who have more experience with them would know. But like I said the nylon we use is not coated, but instead pressed under heat to achieve "low porosity", from 0.3 - 3 cfm sounds right. It is nice material and not overly slippery making it easy to fold and pack without air getting caught.

Anyway you guys can try them for yourself and see once your ready.

Ok, that sounds like F-111 then. It's a great chute fabric - it isn't quite as durable as ZP, and it is slightly lower performance, but it is a lot easier to pack as a result. It's what a lot of skydiving reserve parachutes are made of, as well as a few (though not many anymore) mains. I know my reserve is F-111.

(Oh, and when I say that it isn't as durable, I mean that it degrades significantly in performance after a few hundred uses. It's a significant difference for skydiving, but I wouldn't worry about it for rockets, since I don't forsee putting hundreds of uses on almost any rocketry chute. Besides, if I did make it to a hundred uses on a parachute without shredding it, losing it, toasting it, or tearing it, I don't think I'd mind replacing it).

 

[cjl]

Well, I just ordered a 36 inch Fruity, so I'll be very curious to compare it to my Rocket Rage chutes when it gets here (as well as to my skydiving rig).