Wanted: Advice/Opinions

Looking to get my L1 soon and am soliciting opinions from you experienced guys (and girls) on what's a good kit to use. Personally, I enjoy the building aspect of the sport as much, if not more, than the flying, so the RTF and almost RTF kits aren't so attractive to me.

I'm ready.....Fire your thoughts!

Since you mentioned that you enjoy the building aspect...
Have you considered scratch-building something of your own design?

I get a great feeling of pride and satisfaction from flying my scratch-built birds, ...and I tend to learn more about what works and what doesn't.

If you have completed and flown somel low and or mid-power kits, and have done some low-power scratch building... you can probably scratch build an L1 bird without any trouble.

Otherwise... how about the LOC EZI-65

I would reccomend a LOC IV. It is a simple 4" kit using Kraft tubing and plwood fins. I belive that it has been upgraded so that the fins go all the way to the motor mount. I would reccomend using a third centering ring or pulling the aft ring after using it to center the forward ring. this will allow you to do internal fillets. I would also use some form of positive motor retention (Kaplow Klips, Aero Pac) The idea with a level one rocket is to make a nice stable easy flight. If you want to really over do things you can also glass the tube ( after you have done this a few times it is easier than filling the **** spirals!) I used an H128 on mine and it made for a nice flight back in'97. The only drawback to the LOC IV is the swept back fins that really need good strong building practice if your field is at all hard. If you want something that would be a lot higher performance I would go with a LOC Vulcanite. The body tubing is their 54mm motor tube and you could use it as a club!

Good Luck,


Dwight (Leica)

I can't think of any RTF (ready to fly) level 1 rockets

I second the vote for the EZI65 (cheap)..or better yet scratchbuilt

When I was planning mine, I wanted to purchase a PML Bull Puppy. I ended up doing a scratch build for it though.

Here's some pics of my Mace:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/jmyers/album/?display=Whitakers 4-27-02/Me and the Mace.jpg

https://www.rocketryforum.com/jmyers/album/?display=Whitakers 4-27-02/My Mace on an H128W.jpg

L1 birds are simple enough to build if you don't plan to do electronics or anything. I'd highly recommend scratch building for it.

OK, maybe I haven't seen any RTF either, but I have seen some labeled "almost RTF". While I have a few scratchbuilt sport models, I don't wanna chance my first L1 project that way.

Definitely in the future though.

C-man

I would do my level 1 on a 4" rocket so I could watch the entire flight. I think a perfect choice would be a PML Tethys. There are others, too, like BSD Horizion, Yank Bullet, etc. I think a PML kit is a good choice because you get a very sweet looking finished product with the Quantum Tube and G-10 fins. Also, the Tethys has extra thick fins that will take extra abuse. You have a huge range of options since the kit comes with the Kwik-Switch motor mount.

I would also probably use an H123 or H242 in that 4" rocket for the Cert 1 flight. As you get braver, you can progress right up through I or even J motors in a stock-built Tethys.

Later you could add an altimeter bay and payload section if you want and fly dual-deployment. You could even easily do your Level 2 with that configuration. I did (J-275).

My $0.02, --Lance.

Art Applewhite 12" Saucer with 38mm mount

https://www.artapplewhite.com/

30 bucks, build it solid, shove in H or I flavor Pro38, instant L1!

Patrick

ps. don't forget to ream out the delay and empty the ejection well.

Almost forgot:

Next, start L2 process!

Patrick

My vote is for the BSD Horizon - a sturdy 4" rocket, simple design, good instructions, great customer service and a great flyer!

https://www.bsdrocketry.com/

I'll vouch for the BSD Diablo. $60 with shipping when I got mine. Excellent customer Service from BSD. I was able to make Level 1 on my first attempt with the Diablo.

Greg

Level 1 Scratch build. https://members.cox.net/shortckt4/Rockets1.html#crayon Build like the red one, and do level 1 and 2 with the same rocket. I use the blue for level 1, and the red for level 2. The blue one was about $7 for the bank, and less than $15 for the hardware, bungie, and fins from old lexan window in the garage. Chute was made from golf umbrella, motor mount short piece of 29mm.

Happy Flying!

Originally posted by llickteig1

I would also probably use an H123 or H242 in that 4" rocket for the Cert 1 flight. As you get braver, you can progress right up through I or even J motors in a stock-built Tethys.

Click to expand...

I agree that the EZI is a great rocket for Level 1. I fly mine all the time with H123 and H242... both great motors for that bird. I plan to launch mine this weekend with a Hypertek I205.... versital rocket... can take G's through I's for L1, even small J's for L2 .

Also, have you concidered a G-Force. Easy to modify for H motors... flies great with H128's.... Really rocks with H180's. Also, you could use a Mirage with a RATT WORKS H70 ...

opps... I guess I am making things a bit complicated

I used a LOC Caliper for my L1 and L2 flights...... Not too much money, easy to build, works great for both motor ejection and dual deployment............

I'm using a PML Small Endeavour. Looks impressive with a nice split fin design, and the quantum tube and fiberglass fins really make for a nice finish. Plus, the fins don't sweep back, so stress on landing should be minimal. Also, able to give it a "test flight" on a G64 with an adapter. I don't know why, but that seems important to me - make sure it's built right before you go for the cert. Great build, and it's pretty big. Not a 4 inch rocket, but with a 29mm adaptor, the L1 cert can be right around 2000 feet. I plan on using an H165R for my cert, and that (or an H128) will put it right around 2000 feet. Will handle pretty much all the 29 and 38mm H's without going out of sight. Can't wait for my flight!

Loopy

Good luck on the L1 attempt.

Rather than making a specific recomendation ; consider the following criteria.

Airframe: 3 or 4" dia
Lenght: 3 to 5'
Weight: 2 to 5 lbs
Motor Mount: 29 or 38mm
Design: simple 3 or 4 fins and nose cone
Recovery: parachute at apogee/no electronics

Consider whay you can actually buy when selecting the motor mount size. Seems like 29mm reloads are scarce here now. May be different in your area.


Al

I did my level 1 on a Aerotech Mirage modified for HPR. She was absolutely beautiful too. Is there a mid/low powered rocket that you particularly favored? Maybe you could make an upscale of it. Keep in mind though, for cert flights I have this motto: Low and slow. If you keep the rocket low and slow, then there is more of a chance for recovery.

Good luck on your certification. And remember, no matter what happens, take pictures and post them here!

Still vote for the BSD Horizon...

OK, my mom is watching "friends", which I hate, so I am killing the hour untill "survivor" by looking through every thread that looks interesting, and I saw this. My dad recently got L1 on his first attempt on an H242T in a PML Hydra. there is a review here: PML Hydra By the way, I did not hunt this down, I wrote it myself. Actually I wrote it for my dad cause he did not have any time, but I was there for every step of the way, and I dare say without the inner fillets I put on there the attempt would have failed. One fin was sticking in the ground, with the outer fillet cracking. my dad and I, plus our two "range assistants" (two of my freinds who are just getting into rockets), were all going " " when we saw it. I would really reccomend that for L1. if you do not want to see much of the flight, use an I457T in a "mach buster 1", link here: CLICK IT!!! that is my fauvorite rocket, you could also use This My reveiw is at the bottom. I do not know why they have that other rocket above it....... Good luck. Next step is L2$, er, I mean "&", L3!

My dad used a North Coast Big Brute on an H128W, perfect flight at NARAM 43. The kit is no longer available, so I would suggest a LOC IV on an H128W. Nice chip shot flight, not too high, Medium delay to pop right at the top, short walk and L1 is had!

Low and slow, thats my motto, I used a LOC Mini-Magg ( H123 )


Joel
77267
L2

Well, we both have a lot in common here. I also am currently trying for my L1. In fact I've already made 2 attempts. Both times I've seen my rocket crash, and both attempts were done with a scratch built bird.The lesson learned here is: 1. There is no possible way that I could have learned this much about how to build, repair, and launch my rocket by just building a kit, sending it up and never knowing what it was that made that rocket fly well or not fly well. Most high powered kits have just about everything laid out for you on how to build it, load it and launch it. They even tell you what delay is reccomended for what motor you are using.I suppose thats ok if you REALLY want to get certified in a hurry, however, "What have you learned"? 2. It is a bit cheaper to crash a sratch built bird than an over-priced kit and most of the time a scratch built rocket can be repaired. If you still feel that you want to certify with a kit, then I reccomend "Giant Leaps`Firestorm'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~---- >>>======> Fly High

WEll, my dad simply HAD to use a kit, i could not convince him that a scratch would be cheaper, better and more reliable. I have finnaly convinced him, but after the L1. by the way, if you are having problems with motor ejection, just add more bp! works EVERY time. do not ad more than 1 pound, though. that could make a fireball. just kidding. do not put a pound of BP in anything. it would most likely destroy the model. I usually just put in as much as will fit, no less. it ejects anything from any model. plus you get a good boom with a bit of tracking smoke!

I would argue that building a kit that 'lays it all out' is in fact a good way to go. What do you learn? You learn by understanding a neatly laid out example of what are usually good building techniques. This then can provide a base on which to learn and try new things. Whether this is necessary depends on the person, what they have built in the past, and how much research they have done. I'd say most people who do a L1 cert have the experience to do it right with a scratch-built, but I have certainly seen those that didn't. I'd rather see you build a kit that flew right the first time than learning by your mistakes and having them fail over my head.

As for motor ejection, the common failure mode is due to 1. mistakes in building the motor, or 2. picking the wrong delay for the rocket. If you need more BP than the normal amount for a L1 rocket you have picked/designed the wrong one.

Geesh, sorry about the rant. I wanted this to sound constructive but I guess I need more coffee (or would that be less coffee?).

Originally posted by jrogers
Low and slow, thats my motto, I used a LOC Mini-Magg ( H123 )


Joel
77267
L2

Click to expand...

Same idea I used a LOC Warloc for L2. Save the high , fast , and electronics for after your cert flight.

Al
79513
L2

I just certified successfully this past weekend (10/18) on a PML Phobos with a Pro38 H153 (first attempt, too!). While everything went absolutely perfectly, I was almost embarrassed that it achieved somewhere around 2500-3000ft I broke the "slow and low" rule-of-thumb so many others recommend & would have preferred a lower altitude cert flight but I have to admit it was a launch/deployment/recovery that really amazed everyone (yours truly included) in attendance...in a good way So I don't know if I'd recommend the Phobos as a Level 1 cert rocket--it's not a BAD choice by any means though!--in hindsight I just wish maybe I'd gone with a more draggy and/or larger diameter design. PML components & kits are top notch--you pay for that quality too.

I'm also a big fan of Art Applewhite's delta saucers. You can't beat the price ($20) & it's designed in mind for the Pro38 1 & 2 grain casings (G69 & H153/H143SS, respectively). I would only caution that you talk with the person(s) who would certify your flight before getting one though. It looks & works so unorthodox to people not familiar with the draggy/aerobrake concepts that I wouldn't be surprised if someone may not choose to sign off on your paperwork. Reason being is that there is no parachute deployment with Art's saucers. They merely go straight up, come to a stop, flip over, & fall straight down. LOTS of smoke & noise And FWIW, they fly best on long burning motors As much as I love Art's saucers, I have to admit that using one for a cert flight is soooo easy, it's practically cheating!

And while I've never seen the BSD Horizon, I know it's a popular recommendation for a first HPR/Level 1 cert rocket. I'm currently in the finishing stages of the BSD Thor, which uses many of the same parts, & I can vouch that BSD's components are definitely worthy of praise as well.

So many great options...

So whaddaya think, would they frown on me using a J570 in my mach buster 1 for L2? it would not be "low and slow", 10K and mach 2, to be precice. an I 357T in the same rocket for L1 may also happen. mach 1.3 and 6K. I will be entering HPR with the MB1 (Mach Buster 1) with an I161W. 6K and mach 1.1! This will be too cool! by the way, I am 12 years old, that is why it will not be my cert flight. yes, by the way, I know it will survive. fiberglassed tube and acme can. indestructable. review here: MB1 I reccomend making one (or two, if you are MR. Rich Guy). No real need for a parts list, why make it the way I did? Always room for improovement. say.... rail guids, or no lugs or guids just for a tower launcher. gotta go have dinner now. see you.

isnt there a rule you need to see the rocket

or is that only if you are launching into clouds

Aww man. no 10K in cert flights?

Originally posted by Neil
So whaddaya think, would they frown on me using a J570 in my mach buster 1 for L2? it would not be "low and slow", 10K and mach 2, to be precice. an I 357T in the same rocket for L1 may also happen. mach 1.3 and 6K.

Click to expand...

Would they frown on it... Yes. Would they forbid it... probably not. There is nothing in the rules that say what motor you have to use for your certification flight as long as it is within the impulse class for the level you are trying to certify for. However, any decent certifier will recommend that you "take baby steps" when certifiying. The lower the impulse, the less likely the flight will fail. Not failing, is the goal of a certification flight. Right?