Clustering Composites

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n3tjm

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Joined
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Location
Penns Creek, PA
One thing that I enjoy more than anything else in this hobby is clustering composite motors. So far, I have had a 100% ignition rate with all of the motors I have clustered. Here is a picture of my most recent clustered flight:

Click here to view the picture

This is my American Spirit. A 7' tall 4" diameter beast with 7 29mm motor tubes :). It is flown with a central H128-14W motor, and two G64-10W motors.

Click here to view the video

Since there is a shortage of composite motor... the American Spirit has not flown since July... but hopefully my order of G64's will arive before the next launch :)

Anybody out there have any good clustering pictures, vids, or stories?
 
I have not flown a cluster yet, but i am in the process of designing/building a 4" diameter 10' tall rocket that has three 38 mm motor mounts. the first flight will be on three I435s to she how she flies, and then she is going into orbit on three J570s!!!!!!! :D If you have read my post about the BBX she is going to be built identically to that. It will have an automotive paint job in metallic blue and silver and will bear the name "Cold Fusion"! If somehow Kosdon motors get recertified i will build a new booster so it can take three of his J1500 motors!:D :D :D You can be sure that you will see some flight and construction pics when i get started on her. Maybe AMW will make some big 38mm J motors?

rocwizard:D
 
Oh yeah one more thing, if you want to be sure that all the motors in your cluster will light NOW i recomend that you paint the top grain of the motor with pyrogen if that is possible on the motors you are using. I learned this from fellow ROCketeer John Coker who used this technique on his OTRAG that flew on four M1315s!


rocwizard
 
I've had some trouble getting 24mm composites to all light in my LOC Viper III. When you say "paint the grain", do you mean paint pyrogen in the slot/core of the upper grain? Do you need to paint the entire length of the grain?
 
:cool: To those who don't know me,my name is Jim Scarpine. I have been involved in HPR for14 years. Clustering has always been my favorite. Here are a few words of advice from a seasoned pro.If this is old news to some of you, please disregard.
As a rule,the Blue Thunder has always been the easiest propellant to lite. With White Lightning and Blackjack last. The fast propellants from all the other manufacturers is fairly easy also. Of course the easiest to cluster is BP. My biggest cluster I did was 1 K-1100,4 I-435's and 2 I-357's. I have done this combo several times in various versions of my Starleopard.I feel the desire to become more involved in rocketry as I moved over the weekend and did an inventory of rocket dtuff. I found several kits and parts I didn't know I had. Good luck to all.

Jim Scarpine
TRA 1377
Level III
 
What do you know, i was thinking of doing almost that exact same cluster except using 6 I435s instead of 4 I435s and 2 i357s.
It all would be packed in a 6" diameter airframe.:D

rocwizard
 
The last time somebody flew a I435 at my club, it bent my blacksky rail. So... setting of 6 of those bad boys... you might want to have a strong launch rod/rail .... :D
 
Originally posted by rocwizard
I have not flown a cluster yet, but i am in the process of designing/building a 4" diameter 10' tall rocket that has three 38 mm motor mounts. the first flight will be on three I435s to she how she flies, and then she is going into orbit on three J570s!!!!!!! :D If you have read my post about the BBX she is going to be built identically to that. It will have an automotive paint job in metallic blue and silver and will bear the name "Cold Fusion"! If somehow Kosdon motors get recertified i will build a new booster so it can take three of his J1500 motors!:D :D :D You can be sure that you will see some flight and construction pics when i get started on her. Maybe AMW will make some big 38mm J motors?

rocwizard:D
Click to expand...


Sounds like a really cool project, if you ever get your hands on the kosdon J-1500's and cluster that beast get it on video !! Also- you might want to kevlar and glass the whole thing cuz its gonna pull some heavy G's.

Later---------Darin
 
If you look at my post about my construction techniques on the Black Brant X you'll see that this bird will have no problem taking the J1500s. The post is in this forum called "Black Brandt X".
 
I also enjoy clustering composites....It isnt as hard as it seems it seems so simple. Doug and I have clustered many rockets and soon we will cluster 7 Gs
I have complete faith in magnalites
 
I plan to fly my American Spirit twice in the next two months. On the 19th, I plan to fly her with 4 G35-7W motors. At NSL, I plan to fill all seven motor tubes with G35-7W's. It is going to be cool!
 
*cough* *cough*.....we plan to fly her.....hahaha.....I spent $51 on half those motors....
 
Ryan is right. He did give me $51 for the NSL flight. I own the American Spirit; but since Ryan and I work together on projects and fly together, we both put our names on the flight card.
 
A cluster nut myself, I'm curious as to what igniters you guys have been using. I've always use the igniters from Jim Turner, but since he passed away, I've struggled to find similar igniters.

I'm about to embark upon an air start adventure where I'll start with a 54mm central AMW K950, 3 H180s to 3 H128s. I have dipped the matches into pyrogen and may incorporate the paint job suggested for additional security.

Carl and I will be posting the complete building process in the coming weeks. Stay tuned for the 6" x 10' upscale design of Holverson Design's Wicked Winner - I call her ClusterStruck!

Shane Heilman
 
Ryan and I use Magnelite igniters from Rocketflite. I have a 99.9% success rate with them, and I use their pyrogen on everything.

What is the picture of in your buddy icon? I am staring at it and I can not figure it out :confused:
 
Thanks for the insight. The picture is me climbing an 85' ice fall/wall - just about as addictive as rockets.

Shane
 
The question I have about the magnalite's are two-fold:

1. How easily can you get consistent resistance rating and

2. What is the difference in the ML24, etc - are they different wire sizes or is the Ni-Chrome (assumed) bridge wire a different gage?

Shane
 
im gonna cluster my stovi on 3 F21's, using ignitors i made from the Fire fox kit. Click here

it will carry a VPS from Newtons Third

ill post a link to the vid once it happens

April 12 or 13 @ QUARK VOA

Scott McNeely
 
Originally posted by mshaner

1. How easily can you get consistent resistance rating and

2. What is the difference in the ML24, etc - are they different wire sizes or is the Ni-Chrome (assumed) bridge wire a different gage?
Click to expand...

1.) It is easy. Get a ohm meter, conect each lead to the ohm meter and check its reading. I usually get 1 ohm myself. Does this answer your question?

2.) ML-24 wire is identical to ML-12, except it is twice as long. To get more pyrogen on it, you fold the tip of the wire over. ML-12's are good for most aplications. I use the as is for motors ranging from E15's up to G's. I single fold some ML-12's and have used them up to J350's. Anything longer, and the leads will be to short. ML-48 and ML-72 wires are a heavier gauge.

Rocketflite Products.
 
All
I used to use crapperheads :kill: but the magnelites are so supperior. Doug introduced me to Magnelites (such a good guy) and I have used them ever since then. Dipping Estes igniters in pyrogen makes for easy low power clustering and even the crapperheads work with pyrogen
Thank God for magnelites :D
....they are really the solution to all ignition problems
 
Originally posted by n3tjm
1.) It is easy. Get a ohm meter, conect each lead to the ohm meter and check its reading. I usually get 1 ohm myself. Does this answer your question?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. I am aware of the process of checking the resistance. So let me attempt to restate the question:

With various degrees of wrapping length, amount of wire stripped, etc - is it easy to get a say...1 ohm resistance reading consistently. Or do you wire one up and then another and find that one has a 1 ohm rating and the other for some strange reason has a 1.5 ohm reading?

Let's see if I posed it any better this time.

Shane
 
With the Magnelites, I usually get a very consistent reading at 1.0 ohm. Two things affect the resistance, the length of the nichrome (the leads add some resistence, but not enough to worky about) and how it is attached to the leads. They solder the nichrome onto the wires, so you got a very good connection. Igniter wires that are wrapped have a tendency to vary more. If there is any oxydation on the nichrome or lead wires, the connection will not be as good.
 
Thanks. That answered the question and to make sure I understand what you do - you do, in fact, solder yours?

I've been toying around for some time with different setups and have been less than satisfied. Do you know where to get some CHEAP tungsten wire? I know that it offers a higher resistance rating.

Shane
 
I don't usually make my own wires, but if I did, I will solder them. It makes them more reliable. Hmm, I would not know who would sell tungsten wire. However, you can get nichrome here.
 
Thanks again. I already have nichrome wire and have been tinkering with lengths and gages to see if I could get a higher resistance.

From your previous post I gathered you made these igniters, but I guess not huh? So you guys just purchase the entire igniter. I guess that would explain why you kept saying, "they" did this or that.

Cool,

Shane
 
I have made some wires before, but its a tedious task. strip leads, measure nichrome, wrap, solder, ohm check... on and on. I find its worth the $10 or so for a dozen pre-made wires.

I have tried the conductive primer, but did not have much luck with them. Ohm varience was hihg, and the batches I made had a short shelf life.
 
I don't mind the up and down ohm rating for igniters in a single-use application and I've had great results with igniterman stuff. Although, I should note that I've switched to wrapping wires now instead of the conductive primer. It's not that I didn't care for the primer, as it performed flawlessly. In probably 100 applications I only had one failure and that's just because I didn't use enough pyrogen to light an AMW K670. But the wrapped wires seemed to be more durable.

I may have to try the Magnalites, but I still like to toy around with pyrotechic stuff like igniters. Who knows, I may come up with the ultimate popper yet.

Thanks for all the input.

Shane
 

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