YORF Announcement on Estes/Tunick

[AKPilot]

RD over on YORF just announced the BT will do a chat session on Monday, over on YORF.

This is a good thing.

 

[JRThro]

RD over on YORF just announced the BT will do a chat session on Monday, over on YORF.

This is a good thing.

Hmm, I think I'll hold my breath.

Hey, look! I'm turning blue!

 

[evil ed]

"yawn"
Now we are suposed to care what HE says?

Methinks he is a legend in his own mind.

 

[judo]

With pre-selected questions and canned answers from an on-line townhall forum?

 

[DAllen]

Who is RD?

-Dave

 

[Luv2launch]

This is how I look at things coming for politicians and businessmen (looking at it from the perspective of meetings I have had with company presidents through the years) is you can believe exactly the opposite of what they say.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[evil ed]

Sometimes it is better to ask the right questions than to have all of the answers.

Suddenly it is important to dispel rumors about the future of "The Company", while past examples demonstrated that they didn't give a tinker's d**m what we thought. Why?

Is it a coincidence that this is taking place on YORF, at the same time that they want to release a large group of "retro" kits?

Why the desire for the dialog, when the stated purpose could be best served by a simple statement from the P.R. department?

Trust is something that is earned. I hope this dialog leads tward some of that trust.

Evil Ed

 

[AKPilot]

Okay, it's been on my mind for a few days and I just have to say it.

I'm very, very, very, appreciative to all of our vendors here on TRF. You're phenominal to say the least!!!!! Thank you!

I'm very glad that Ken and Scott were able to facilitate a question and answer session with the Pres. of Estes.

However, none of our vendors here have ever put a "limit" on either when or how they could be addressed, or have ever limited the amount of questions they would answer. For me, and this forum, this goes a long-long ways and shows the commitment they have towards us as hobbyists.

 

[jadebox]

However, none of our vendors here have ever put a "limit" on either when or how they could be addressed, or have ever limited the amount of questions they would answer. For me, and this forum, this goes a long-long ways and shows the commitment they have towards us as hobbyists.

In all fairness, Barry Tunick originally asked to participate in a standard forum discussion. It was Scott and Ken who suggested the pre-selected questions format because they realized having Tunick participate in an open forum for a short period of time was unworkable.

-- Roger

 

[JRThro]

In all fairness, Barry Tunick originally asked to participate in a standard forum discussion. It was Scott and Ken who suggested the pre-selected questions format because they realized having Tunick participate in an open forum for a short period of time was unworkable.

-- Roger

Yeah, that's a good point and I'm glad you called everyone's attention to it.

 

[mach7]

I think the difference is the vendors that hang around here are rocket people first and vendor second. That in no way diminishes the business aspect, just says something about the class of vendors here.

 

[Micromeister]

It is my earnest hope the He will actually LEARN something from the experience.
Looking at some of the questions turned in, it might just be an eye opener for Mr Tunick.
I sincerely hope this turns out to be more then just a PR stunt. Only time will tell.

 

[sunward]

....However, none of our vendors here have ever put a "limit" on either when or how they could be addressed, or have ever limited the amount of questions they would answer. ....

Thank you.

 

[troj]

Just remember folks... If you want Barry Tunick to continue to engage the hobby folks, you need to take it slowly. Coming in with blunt, rude, accusatory, or obnoxious questions will only drive him away and prevent things like this from happening in the future.

Consider this a bit of an olive branch, and a first step towards more open dialog.

I applaud the YORF folks for keeping it a more controlled environment which is likely to be more constructive.

-Kevin

 

[jadebox]

Who is RD?

Rocket Doctor

-- Roger

 

[AKPilot]

If you want Barry Tunick to continue to engage the hobby folks

Kevin, keep in mind that Barry has Estes up for sell, and is planning on retirement - how much engagement, from Barry, can be anticipated under those factors?

 

[troj]

Kevin, keep in mind that Barry has Estes up for sell, and is planning on retirement - how much engagement, from Barry, can be anticipated under those factors?

Until such time as he sells it, he continues to set direction, and may or may not have an impact on whomever buys it.

If it's purchased from someone from within the typical toy type company, they may not understand the niche nature of rocketry, and the impact positive engagement with the serious hobbyists can have. Having Barry Tunick feeling that such engagement is a positive thing may cause him to encourage the new owners to do so.

If we piss him off, he can plant a poison pill with the new owners that can be hard to overcome.

-Kevin

 

[Ltvscout]

However, none of our vendors here have ever put a "limit" on either when or how they could be addressed, or have ever limited the amount of questions they would answer. For me, and this forum, this goes a long-long ways and shows the commitment they have towards us as hobbyists.

Barry ended up answering ALL questions people posted, even though he originally asked for only 50.

 

[Ltvscout]

I've got all of Barry's answers to your questions online now. You can find it at:

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=5007

 

[Fred22]

Thanks for getting this going I was very interested. August could be an exciting month for me and whover sells me that classic line New saturn V's would be so nice
Cheers
fred

 

[AKPilot]

Overall, I thought it was great that Ken and Scott pulled this off! Thanks guys!!! I'm also appreciative that Barry took the time and made the attempt to answer the questions. It was really enlightening

One thing I do note, whomever buys the company though has the right to set the future direction of the company. I don't believe that a new owner could be influenced by a "poison pill" from their predecessor. These CEO/President folks have often achieved their positions because they're exactly the opposite, they set their own course. As for new, future, releases it's entirely up to the new owners if/when they come out. Barry can only predict the future where he controls it - not when it's out of his hands.

And while I hope the new kits eventually hit the shelves, there are further delays to compound the ones that already have taken place.


Also, seems like them oop Fat Boys are taking on a whole new price structure - with the announcement that they won't be renewed in production.

 

[georgegassaway]

In all fairness, Barry Tunick originally asked to participate in a standard forum discussion. It was Scott and Ken who suggested the pre-selected questions format because they realized having Tunick participate in an open forum for a short period of time was unworkable.

Well, to be fair about being fair....it was a number of OTHER YORF contributors who stressed how impractical it was going to be to use the original format. We did not think Barry realized how likely it was to become a train wreck, not by "bad" questions, but that when he asked for "next question", there would likely have been a dozen or more people posting their "one question" in the same minute. And of course everyone would have had to be refreshing their browsers at least once a minute to see if Barry had posted a reply and asked for the "next question" yet.

And to be fair to Scott and Ken, they did know this and tried to convey at least some of it to Barry, but he did not want it that way, so then the rest of the YORF members were told that's how Barry wants it. But some of the other YORF members were skeptical that Barry REALLY knew all of the problems that were caused by that format. And that "hoping it would go smoothly" was not exactly a great "plan". Let me glue just one fin on my Alpha and hope it will go smoothly when I fly it...

Fortunately, over last weekend, the significance of those issues was realized strongly enough, and conveyed to Barry Tunick sufficiently for a change to have been made. I am glad they did.

If TRF had tried to do the same thing as in the original plan, 100% open live via the forums like this one, and not a "Live Chat", and without a "Queue line", then many of the same issues would have occurred.

It seems the main thing Barry Tunick wanted was for a lot of people to have been "free" to ask questions without any one person selecting wha they thought were the "best" questions, and that was his motive for originally wanting it to be totally "live". The change that was made, to ask in advance, but to post all of the questions publicly on YORF first, served much of the original idea, and proof to Barry (and anyone else) that the questions did come from lots of people and were NOT mostly written in secret by one or a few people.

Now there were logical limits put on the questions such as one per person, with a second question if less than 50 original questions were asked by the first 50 people to post questions. And no personal questions (which at least one person broke) or proprietary questions (sort of gray-ish there since in a way any questions about Estes' plans could be proprietary). First 50 people to ask on-topic questions within the guidelines, those were the 50 questions submitted to Barry.... whether good insightful questions or total waste of opportunity questions.

So, the final format chosen, 50 questions in advance, posted publicly by those who wrote them, with adequate time for Barry to answer them, is FAR superior to the original 2-hour "live" train wreck that was set up to occur.

- George Gassaway

 

[DAllen]

George...That is a much better explanation than what was originally given of "software constraints." I and most everyone here knows that you can easily fit dozens upon dozens of people into a single chat room. "Train wreck" is a much better way to put it. In fact, when it was originally announced that it was going to be chat-room style my first thought was, "Ohh...this isn't going to end well."

While this Q&A is a step in the right direction, I won't be impressed with Estes PR until they get a rep to visit TRF and RocketryPlanet on a regular basis to discuss issues just like the other manufacturers do. Roguepink was awesome to this end. When he was posting here I really thought Estes was turning a new leaf.

I just bought an educator bulk pack and I didn't get it from Estes I got it from Fliskits. Why? Because while Estes and Fliskits are in the business to make money, Jim makes an effort to come here and understand the issues.

From Rocketry Planet:

It appears I was discussed by Barry in a sarcastic manner.

That just made me laugh...

-Dave

 

[Ltvscout]

I've posted more thoughts that I received from Barry today here:

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=5018

 

[DAllen]

Yeah and check out this little gem Barry spurted out:

The rocket communities including the organizations have a different attitude towards governmental agencies than we do here at the company. The rocket people think it is great when they sue agencies and win or don’t follow the laws—it is common in this country-and I do it myself in my personal life to give short shrift to the government—over the years I have heard many things about what rocketeers should or should not do vs a vs certain regulations. There is an attitude that the government is wrong whenever they try to interfere in rocketry in any way shape or form.

Why don't all of you boop over to YORF and tell Barry what you think about the fact that he just glossed all of us criminals.

I've already posted my thoughts.

-Dave

 

[Fishhead]

Yeah, that's a good point and I'm glad you called everyone's attention to it.

Especially since there was no selection process for the questions. Trust me on this.

 

[Ltvscout]

I just posted more answers from Barry that he just sent me in response to what people have been saying in the new thread I started yesterday.

 

[Fred22]

Guys I just tried to put a post in a mod area for consideration and it got lost. Send me a PM Mystical and i will do my best. It was my mistake and mine alone not a board thing.
Apologies
Fred

 

[powderburner]

And I think BOTH Barry and YORF did well.

BTW, a big thank you to the folks at YORF for putting in the time and effort to get this done.

And another big thank you to BT for taking time to talk to us. Many of us rocket hobbyists forget that Barry, who must run Estes like a business or it will cease to exist, is involved in rocketry for business purposes first. That's just the way it has to be. Estes works at the level of tens of millions (hundreds?) per year, and very few of us hobbyists really understand what that requires.

I was encouraged that BT felt comfortable enough talking to us that he was willing to throw in a little sarcasm here and there, and even a bit of humor:


A Fish Named Wallyum writes:
(Q) What are you wearing?
(A) thongs-want to get together?

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=5007


I got a chuckle out of that one. Wallyum, you little deviant rascal, you.
And Barry....I'm not so sure now that I ever want to see a tour of HQ in Penrose.

I have had a small glimpse of the "behind the scenes" operations that take place at Estes as a result of my participation in certain recent legal proceedings. While I do not feel at liberty to divulge any of the Estes (proprietary?) documentation, I can say that they are working hard to keep our hobby going, and going forward. Many of us forget that Estes must tackle this stuff from a business standpoint. It appears to me they are doing as much as they can, and the BT session also reinforced this to me. I am looking forward to future talks.