Quantcast

X-Prize and the FAA (and other tidbits)

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

flying_silverad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
1
I really wish they had structured the rules so that all of the teams had to fly there 2-week envelope within a given 30-60 day period. That way, all of the teams might have been more apt to give it a go. I think some of the teams and their sponsors might have withdrawn from the "full court press" attitude once they saw the “Rutan Rush” to the finish. Some of the teams just couldn't help to see the prize slipping from their grasp.

Be that as it may, I think it sucked that the FAA came in on the day of celebration and started yanking Scale's chain by saying there was no way they could provide passenger service because the FAA infringements that would soon come would make commercial space flight cost prohibitive. Though knowing the Scale teams attitude, I don't think even the FAA will slow them down.

Whatever happened to letting people sign thier hide away if they want and just "light the candle" as Al would say.

Oh yea, what about all of those new ESTES kits? Wonder if they'll still be producing them?
 

Rocketmaniac

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,053
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by flying_silverad
I think it sucked that the FAA came in on the day of celebration and started yanking Scale's chain by saying there was no way they could provide passenger service because the FAA infringements that would soon come would make commercial space flight cost prohibitive. Though knowing the Scale teams attitude, I don't think even the FAA will slow them down.
Flying_Silverad where have you read this info? I would like to see it.
 

SwingWing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
78
Originally posted by flying_silverad
I really wish they had structured the rules so that all of the teams had to fly there 2-week envelope within a given 30-60 day period. That way, all of the teams might have been more apt to give it a go. I think some of the teams and their sponsors might have withdrawn from the "full court press" attitude once they saw the “Rutan Rush” to the finish. Some of the teams just couldn't help to see the prize slipping from their grasp.
The $10M X prize was funded by a "hole in one" insurance policy that was to expire at the end of 2004. Time was running thin for all of the teams.
Still, I hope many of the remaining teams continue towards their goal. With all of the time and money invested up till now, why not?
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,716
Reaction score
9
This didn't sound too bad, but the tendency if for governemnt to get in the way IMO: http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/xprize2_success_041004.html

Excerpt:

"Today’s flight was witnessed by Marion Blakey, Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

"From all of us in the aviation business, Kitty Hawk move over," Blakey said. "This was an incredibly historic day," she said.

"This was not only a historic flight, the standards of safety that were set here today are going to go on to ensure that there’s going to be lots of tourists out there that’ll enjoy it. We’ll be partner with you on it," Blakey said.

Blakey later awarded pilot Binnie his commercial astronaut wings."
 

flying_silverad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
1
Originally posted by Rocketmaniac
Flying_Silverad where have you read this info? I would like to see it.
CNN news, yesterday about 3PM EST
 

Chilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
1,165
Reaction score
1
So was CNN just saying this or did they actually have one of the Feds talking about it?

No one expects Scaled to get a charter certificate or get SS1 certified to Part 25 airworthiness standards. The FAA AST (space transportation office) has supposedly been doing a lot to clear the way for them and other companies like XCor. From reading the alt.space blogs, all the potential operators seem pretty happy with the FAA's stance so far.
 

flying_silverad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
1
Originally posted by Chilly
So was CNN just saying this or did they actually have one of the Feds talking about it?

No one expects Scaled to get a charter certificate or get SS1 certified to Part 25 airworthiness standards. The FAA AST (space transportation office) has supposedly been doing a lot to clear the way for them and other companies like XCor. From reading the alt.space blogs, all the potential operators seem pretty happy with the FAA's stance so far.
It was a reporter simply passing on with what he heard an FAA official say. Though the FAA has been helpful regarding certification during the X Prize process, it will be different during the process of passanger carrying certification. I don't think it will be to the point of killing the program as I suspect the cost of said certification will simply be passed along down the line to the ticket cost. And, I think over time, it will become cheaper or at least more effieciant to to perform flights to space.
This rules all have to be written from scratch and I'm sure this will be a longer time frame then it took to get Space Ship One to space in the first place.

I also found this article that might add a little light to the situation.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/9781891.htm?1c
 

Chilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
1,165
Reaction score
1
OK...that explains a lot! To say there is inconsistency within the FAA would be a wild understatement. If the person quoted is, say, an air carrier inspector with no connection to the AST office, then I would expect exactly that kind of answer. Personally I'd put no stock in it. Reading the alt.space bloggers, the guys on the tip of the spear like Scaled & XCor have been able to work very well with the Feds so far.
 

flying_silverad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
1
Originally posted by Chilly
OK...that explains a lot! To say there is inconsistency within the FAA would be a wild understatement. If the person quoted is, say, an air carrier inspector with no connection to the AST office, then I would expect exactly that kind of answer. Personally I'd put no stock in it. Reading the alt.space bloggers, the guys on the tip of the spear like Scaled & XCor have been able to work very well with the Feds so far.
Right, but now we have to shift gears. Now, Scales will have to move from having essentially a test certification to passanger carrying certification. I don't think this will be a total boondogle but my feeling is now that passangers get involved, things will start to turn alot slower. I'm sure this is all new to the FAA and the thought of a learning curve sends chills up my spine from a time line point of view.
You have people plunking down cash every day for one of these flights but I don't think anyone has a real date to shoot for.
 

Chilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
1,165
Reaction score
1
That's what I'm talking about. XCor is building a suborbital spaceplane for the express purpose of carrying paying passengers. The FAA is not requiring them to certify it to Part 25 Airworthiness because they know it's not possible yet. They're basically waiving the rule about carrying for hire in an "experimental" craft. As I understand it, any future passengers will have to undergo "crew" training and sign some kind of release that they understand and accept the risks. From what I've read the AST office understands that it's impossible to set a safety standard yet because of all the unknowns. To FAA's credit, they've said something along the lines of a DC-3 could've never been built if it had been required to be certified the way we do a B-777 today. Their bigger concern right now is for the safety of the "uninvolved" public on the ground. There's a story about this today at Foxnews.com.
 
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
I wonder what restrictions might be placed on who can be a passenger? I had quadruple bypass surgery in 99. I never had a heart attack and my heart muscle is health so I have that in my favor. Still, I don't know how the powers that be would feel about it. It is certainly a risk I would be willing to take and I would sign any liability waiver they put in front of me.

I was a wee lad when the astronauts walked on the moon and in those days it certainly seemed that we would all live to see the day when we could go into space. Short of winning the Power Ball and hitching a ride with the Russians I figured that dream was dead. Burt Rutan has fanned the embers of that dream and given me hope that I might yet see the day! If I die in the process then I died attaining the goal that my whole life has led up to. If you've got to go I can't think of a more fantastic send off.

My wife said if I took part in such foolishness that she would leave me. I told her I would not blow my retirement money on it, but if I could do it and still have enough left to live on that I would do it in a heart beat and if she would leave me over that then adios! We agreed we could probably safely table the argument for the next 10 or 20 years.

Can't wait to see Burt's Tier Two project (putting someone in orbit)!
 

UncMikesRktShk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
1,269
Reaction score
0
Well if we can all die in our "dream death" situation, I would like to vote for shuffling off the mortal coil right after nailing a 10 point buck:)
 

DynaSoar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
3,007
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by flying_silverad
Be that as it may, I think it sucked that the FAA came in on the day of celebration and started yanking Scale's chain by saying there was no way they could provide passenger service because the FAA infringements that would soon come would make commercial space flight cost prohibitive. Though knowing the Scale teams attitude, I don't think even the FAA will slow them down.
I think it'd be just fine if the FAA made it cost prohibitive. All the spaceflight companies could just move elsewhere and carry on, and the US would end up eating their dust. If that's how they want to treat the people building the future, they don't deserve for it to happen within their borders.
 

wwattles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
2,859
Reaction score
0
Whatever happened to the old idea of "you're responsible for your own actions" that we were raised with? You know, the one that your mom/dad used to constantly beat into your head by telling you things like "But don't come running to me when you hurt yourself because I warned you!"

I say let the flights go up with passengers, so long as the passengers have signed off on knowing that they are undertaking a potentially dangerous and deadly risk, and take responsibility for their own actions. You could call it the "Own Recognizance Darwin Principle"!

I sure hope that common sense prevails on this matter, someway, somehow, somewhere...

WW:(
 

flying_silverad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
1
Originally posted by wwattles
Whatever happened to the old idea of "you're responsible for your own actions" that we were raised with?
I say let the flights go up with passengers, so long as the passengers have signed off on knowing that they are undertaking a potentially dangerous and deadly risk, and take responsibility for their own actions. You could call it the "Own Recognizance Darwin Principle"!

I sure hope that common sense prevails on this matter, someway, somehow, somewhere...

WW:(
I sure hope that common sense prevails on this matter, someway, somehow, somewhere...
Update: Common sense is just not that common.

Whatever happened to the old idea of "you're responsible for your own actions" that we were raised with?
We are becoming a nation of too much hand holding and not enough of responsibility for self.
 
Top